S110V Sharpening Tricks?

[Chumango]

I sharpen free hand using DMT plates. The finest I go is EF. I have no problem getting many steels to a nice, biting sharp edge (sticky sharp, to borrow someone else’s words). This includes S30V, S35VN, CTS-204P, CTS-20CP, M4, and S90V.

S110V, however, has eluded me so far. I can get it shaving sharp, but it doesn’t seem to want to stay there very long, sometimes with little or no use. I am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong.

Another issue is how long it holds an edge compared to the above steels.

I have sharpened the S110V blade I use most (N5 LW) enough that I should be down to good steel. There is no apparent burr. It has been improving as I have sharpened it more, but it is still not to the level of edge holding as would be expected based on all the adoration on forums. On par with the others I have, but not noticeably better.

It definitely takes more patience to get to high sharpness than other steels I have.

Any suggestions? I really don’t want to deal with a bunch of finer grits on strops. I’d like to see if there are issues with technique I can tweak to get where I want to be.

[ZrowsN1s]

....

The main trick to S110V is patience and persistence. I had a similar issue. Sharpened it once, thought I was done.... not good enough. Sharpened it again.... still not good enough. Changed my sharpening angle by 2 degrees to make absolutely sure I was hitting the apex... success! And it stayed sharp an impressively long time. S110V has pretty darn good edge retention, so if it's dulling fast, something is off.

It could be an issue of having to remove the factory edge, to get to the 'good steel' underneath. Using edge leading strokes could help as well. But it should get pretty sharp even at lower grits. The good news is, once you get it there it seems to hold it's edge for a while. Hope that helps!

[curlyhairedboy]

I've had good results with a steeper microbevel and then a usual stropping.

Lots of 'internet' research, photos, and writing about S110v mentions that it has a comparatively high level of vanadium carbides. Some have theorized that the higher ratio of carbides to steel matrix leads to easier displacement of the carbides, especially when used with low edge angles (less than 17 degrees per side).

Thus, using a microbevel (few strokes at 20 degrees per side) can offer a more resilient edge matrix and keep the edge lasting longer.

I am unequipped to verify any of the internet wisdom without access to conventional material engineering and metallurgical tools. (well, I have access but not for personal uses :P )

All I can say is that microbevels have worked for me, and that S110v will excel not in maintaining a sticky sharp edge, but holding a functional edge forever.

[Deadboxhero]

Deep scratches might be holding you back.

[bearfacedkiller]

Maybe it is just a matter of patience.

It can be easy to progress to the next grit too soon with steels that take noticeably longer to sharpen. I have been guilty of this. Not so much now that I only use two or sometimes three stone in my progression.

Also, with steels that take longer, or take more passes, there can be an issue with consistency. With more passes there will likely always be more variation in angles and also when it takes longer sometimes our focus can wane and we can get less consistent with our strokes. It is important with steels that take longer that we do not get inpatient and apply extra pressure of get sloppy with out consistency.

[Chumango]

There's that patience thing. Light strokes. Been doing that.

Even though I have sharpened it several times, it is so wear resistant that perhaps I have not removed as much of the original edge as I thought. I will keep working on it.

[Termite Toothpick]

I would agree with bearfacedkiller, patience and especially consistency. I use a WE so the consistency is built in (not sure I would be patient enough to free hand), but my S110v PM2 does take a little more to really get it there. That's my box killer, and I don't need to sharpen it as often as others. So I think it may just take honing your edge a little more

[wrdwrght]

There's that patience thing. Light strokes. Been doing that.

Even though I have sharpened it several times, it is so wear resistant that perhaps I have not removed as much of the original edge as I thought. I will keep working on it.

Has all your work been done on a factory edge, or did you re-profile first?

[Chumango]

Started with factory edge. Use it, sharpen it, repeat. I did not do a full re-profile.

[Bloke]

My S110V PM2 and Military both came sharp. The PM2 hasn't seen much daylight and the Military which doesn't see any heavy use is basically like the day I bought it with a strop every once in a while.

Whiteout derailing this thread .. Is S110V significantly different to S90V when it comes to sharpening?

[wrdwrght]

Started with factory edge. Use it, sharpen it, repeat. I did not do a full re-profile.

This may be your problem. Why? I'll start with my S30V epiphany.

In my first year here I acquired a bunch of S30V Spydies and a Sharpmaker. I'd sharpen their factory edges as needed with no difficulty. But occasionally one of my edges would chip during normal use. A chipped edge is, of course, horrid to repair.

Anyway, the forum's cognoscenti repeatedly alluded to the good toughness of S30V, but this property didn't accord with the chipping I was experiencing. I learned eventually that robotically-controlled belt-sanders put that wonderfully sharp edge on our Spydies, but they do it with a significant build-up of heat at the edge especially. In other words, the intended heat-treat gets altered a bit.

On S30V, the edge is made brittle and prone to chipping. Since reprofiling (thus removing the brittleness) not one of my S30V Spydies has chipped.

Now, on S110V (known for wear-resistance, not fracture-resistance), the heat introduced during robotic belt-sanding has a different consequence, or so I speculate.

Rather than brittleness, extra hardness is imparted to the edge, such that your sharpening has been very difficult indeed and largely unsatisfying.

In consequence of this, your, thread, I grabbed my blurple S110V PM2 which I have barely used. It came with an uneven bevel that I have been meaning to even out. After reprofiling with my Sharpmaker's diamond rods, I was easily able to get my edge shaving sharp. Took me 30 minutes altogether.

This proof-of-concept caused me to grab my S110V Native5 which I had not reprofiled and which I, like you, could not get sharp enough. After reprofiling, I got the thing shaving sharp, again in less than 30 minutes. Evidently reprofiling took away the extra hardness that has been the source of our frustration.

Is there a trick here?

[Chumango]

I have long held the opinion (unsupported by actual evidence) that high speed powered sharpening equipment as is used in factories can leave a burr on the edge that remains unless care is taken to remove it. I think this is as likely an explanation, perhaps more likely, than overheating. I just thought by now I had sharpened past a potential weak edge, but perhaps not given the high wear resistance of S110V. I can feel how hard and wear resistant it is on the stones, it just hasn't translated to as durable an edge as I would have expected. I will keep working on it.

[gull wing]

Hats off to you who have the patience to hand sharpen.

[anagarika]

I got it better but not yet at same level with my VG10 Endura. Need more work I guess.

[Angela007]

I have the Para 3 in this steel. The first time I sharpened it I marked the back bevel with a sharpie and discovered it is not 15° per side or 30° inclusive. Once I corrected this and put a micro bevel at 20° per side or 40° inclusive S110V sharpens just as easy as any other steel.

[Bill1170]

My S110V Manix 2 LW had lost its edge after months of use. I tried to bring it back on the Sharpmaker medium stones and wasn’t getting anywhere fast, so last night I pulled out the diamond plates. After 600-1200-2500 it had that good bite plus some refinement. I then polished the result with the SM fine rods and it shaved like a dream now. It still had a decent working edge but would no longer cleanly slice the top off a bag of chips. Now it will. Snack foods everywhere cower in fear of my Golden laser!

What finally took the edge to too dull was me whittling the PVC thermal welds at the corners of several vinyl sashes on a job. The welds were dragging on the track, making operation difficult. Now only the rollers contact the track, so the windows move freely. These are horizontal rolling windows, large ones.

While carving off vinyl I was aware that there was a lot of lateral force applied to the edge. It couldn’t be helped, I was working in a trough. Well, I probably should have used a carbide burr, so I guess it could be helped, but I was also trimming fins of plastic on the point of the miter and the knife was perfect for that. I suspect I made micro chips in the edge, but it’s good now.