Hawkbills versus Reverse S Blades

[JD Spydo]

Spyderco has really spoiled us in many ways and have provided types of cutlery you don't see much with other knife companies. Two types of blades I really appreciate that Spyderco has made available that both really excel are the Hawkbill and Reverse S blades. Hawkbills like the Harpy, Spyderhawk and DragonHawk have certainly become more popular in the past 2 to 3 years and were initially designed for fishing and so forth. "Reverse S" type blades like the Matriarch, Dodo, Civilian and even the Cricket models have certainly garnered a lot more fanfare as well in the past few years and were mainly designed for self defense but have proven to be valuable in many work applications.

I've come to appreciate both blade styles and found that both have their advantages and disadvantages. So which of the two blade styles do you all like the best and why? What advantages have you all discovered that each blade style provides? Which blade style would you be tempted to EDC?

There one model namely the C-111 Captain that could qualify to be in both categories. Also which edge type ( Spyderedge or Plain edge) do you all think performs the best in both blade styles? OK it's Hawkbill versus Reverse S blades>> so which one wins?

[osprey]

I don't have a ton to add to this other than to say a reverse S Dragonfly needs to be made

[xceptnl]

In a blade of sufficient length, I would prefer the reverse S over the hawkbill 9 times out of 10. The benefit is having that little rearward portion of belly. I haven't tried the cricket yet though so I might be able to lift that reservation eventually. If my Ladyhawk was available in a reverse S... i am not sure it would be more useful than the hawkbill.

[JD Spydo]

In a blade of sufficient length, I would prefer the reverse S over the hawkbill 9 times out of 10. The benefit is having that little rearward portion of belly. I haven't tried the cricket yet though so I might be able to lift that reservation eventually. If my Ladyhawk was available in a reverse S... i am not sure it would be more useful than the hawkbill.

I tend to somewhat agree with you on that Landon but I'm not too sure how much "pull cutting" advantage that you would have with a "Reverse S" blade (if any). Because the belly part of a Reverse S blade does come in quite handy at times for various cutting jobs. But I still think that Hawkbills are king in the pull cutting jobs. When I need to pull cut I don't even consider anything other than a Hawkbill blade.

It goes without saying that Spyderedged Hawkbills really perform much better than plain edged Hawkbills do. But my jury is still out on whether that's true with Reverse S blades. But it does seem like in most cases that serrations and curved blades do go well together.

[Evil D]

Seems to me the tip is still just as useful in pull cuts while the belly might make cutting board style cuts easier. That all just depends on how far down the hook extends.

[JD Spydo]

Seems to me the tip is still just as useful in pull cuts while the belly might make cutting board style cuts easier. That all just depends on how far down the hook extends.

Yeah that's a good point you make>> however with the pull cutting jobs I've done recently I've found that the curvature of a solid built, medium to large, Spyderedged Hawkbill has been the best remedy for me. But as far as opening clam packs and other hard to open packages the point ( the top 1 inch or so) of a Reverse S blade usually do those types of jobs with ease. But when I need the extra leverage I'll take a Spyderedged Hawkbill any day of the week.

Also I find the Hawkbills with more curve like the Spyderhawk model for instance also seem to have some advantage as well.

[ZrowsN1s]

You can definitely make pull cuts with the tip, I actually do that a lot with zip ties. But you get more leverage and power the closer you are to the handle.

[JD Spydo]

You can definitely make pull cuts with the tip, I actually do that a lot with zip ties. But you get more leverage and power the closer you are to the handle.

That's why I would like to see the Spyderhawk with either a G-10 or Titanium handle because I would have a lot more confidence to pull harder with that type of handle.

I've done a lot with tips on Reverse S and Hawkbills both and if you have the tip sharp it's amazing what you can do. At some point I do hope that Spyderco puts out a utility type Reverse S blade with a G-10 or Titanium or even Micarta handle. I would also like to see a Hawkbill with the same rigid construction as my Stainless RESCUE model.

[ZrowsN1s]

.... At some point I do hope that Spyderco puts out a utility type Reverse S blade with a G-10 or Titanium or even Micarta handle. I would also like to see a Hawkbill with the same rigid construction as my Stainless RESCUE model.

I've been trying to revive the Dodo for another Sprint next year. I think that would make an excellent reverse s utility knife.

[JD Spydo]

.... At some point I do hope that Spyderco puts out a utility type Reverse S blade with a G-10 or Titanium or even Micarta handle. I would also like to see a Hawkbill with the same rigid construction as my Stainless RESCUE model.

I've been trying to revive the Dodo for another Sprint next year. I think that would make an excellent reverse s utility knife.

A DODO model with either a Titanium or Micarta handle would be the 2018 Spyder of the YEAR in my humble opinion. But it must be made available in SE & PE both>> not making the Dodo model available in Spyderedge is an outright injustice :rolleyes:

Yeah Zrow!! you're starting to see the light my friend !!! Also what would you think about a larger scale, bigger sized Dodo model?? If there is one Spyderco model that I think would be a huge improvement in a larger size and scale it would be the Dodo model>> not even a close second on that one>> unless you guys can pull a rabbit out of the hat :D

[ZrowsN1s]

I'm not sure how I'd feel about a Dodo XL, I've never handled the original (and I tend to like smaller knives), I can think of a few people on the forum who might be interested though.

[JD Spydo]

I'm not sure how I'd feel about a Dodo XL, I've never handled the original (and I tend to like smaller knives), I can think of a few people on the forum who might be interested though.

Believe me a larger scale Dodo model with the handle design the original model has would also be very ergonomic and would accommodate most guy's hands. The Dodo model may be about the most versatile, specialty type knife Spyderco ever came up with. I've been wanting another Spyderedged Dodo so bad since I traded my original SE Dodo a few years back.

It's only been guys that I know with extremely big hands who have told me that the Dodo model did not fit them well. But a larger scale model might just be the remedy for that as well.

If I lived in a place that had really draconian, totalitarian laws on blade length I would probably make my Blue PE Dodo my main EDC. Yeah I like it that much. But please Spyderco make a new one with another blade steel other than S30V. Truly it's time for a change :spyder:

[Comedie]

If by reverse s you mean like the Civilian,,,, in that case, I'd personally say S, not reverse S. Tip and front for stabbing and cutting, belly in the back for ice controlled cuts on things like rope/twine. Is my favorite type of blade. Is a compromise, but merges the two most useful features to me in one blade

[vivi]

I've never found a use for the belly on Reverse S blades. The designs are usually too small for cutting board work, and the belly doesn't stick out enough for that anyways. Besides who's dicing onions with a serrated matriarch???

I'll take a regular hawkbill 10/10 times.

[ZrowsN1s]

I was told once by someone (can't remember who) that the reverse S was meant to prevent the hooking that can occur with hawkbills, in particular for self defense. The civilian wont get hooked and hung up on 'material' preventing movement of the blade, the reverse S ensures it will slide along the top of what ever you're cutting. This applys to boxes too I assume, I've never had a reverse S blade so I can't say definitively.

[vivi]

I was told once by someone (can't remember who) that the reverse S was meant to prevent the hooking that can occur with hawkbills, in particular for self defense. The civilian wont get hooked and hung up on 'material' preventing movement of the blade, the reverse S ensures it will slide along the top of what ever you're cutting. This applys to boxes too I assume, I've never had a reverse S blade so I can't say definitively.

I'm a little confused by that because I would expect the tip to be the part doing the hooking, but thanks for sharing the info either way. It's always fun learning about the thoughts that go into a design.

[ZrowsN1s]

Small hooks can still grab onto stuff for sure. Perhaps I should have said the reverse S was an attempt minimize it rather than eliminate it. It's easier to hook an arm with a spyderhawk than a civilian (I imagine) because the spyderhawk has a wider and deeper hook.

[JD Spydo]

I was told once by someone (can't remember who) that the reverse S was meant to prevent the hooking that can occur with hawkbills, in particular for self defense. The civilian wont get hooked and hung up on 'material' preventing movement of the blade, the reverse S ensures it will slide along the top of what ever you're cutting. This applys to boxes too I assume, I've never had a reverse S blade so I can't say definitively.

The more I think on that assertion the more I'm finding it believable. And I'm sure that the Reverse S designed blades which were initially intended mainly for serious self defense uses were designed for the most efficient performance in that genre of blades.

Albeit the Lil Matriarch is building quite a reputation as being a viable hard use, work knife and keeps getting more testimonies all the time. The Dodo model needs no explanation at all for those of us who have owned and seriously used them. It can't even be argued that the Dodo is only a single purpose knife because that is not the truth at all. I actually EDCed my blue PE Dodo for an entire week at one time and I was amazed at how efficient it was for everyday pocket knife uses.

And I do believe Mr. Glesser was truly on the right path selecting a Reverse S style like the Civilian and Matriarch for serious self defense knives instead of a Hawkbill. Because as avid of a Hawkbill fan as I am I will concede that Hawkbills would have a lot to be desired for serious self defense use. I would take a Reverse S or conventional or wharncliffe for that type of use over a Hawkbill.

[zhyla]

I don’t personally think the reverse S is as capable in a defense role as a more standard blade shape. But like 99% of opinions on knife fighting, that’s pure speculation.

I also could never get behind the Lil Matriarch as a “hard use” knife but it’s a great EDC. I also find the reverse S Meerkat to be fantastic for a small knife. While most Spyderco designs are great, the Meerkat is just genius (and I’m not referring to the lock, which I could take or leave).

I’d really like to see a larger reverse S Meerkat knife.

[JD Spydo]

I don’t personally think the reverse S is as capable in a defense role as a more standard blade shape. But like 99% of opinions on knife fighting, that’s pure speculation.

I also could never get behind the Lil Matriarch as a “hard use” knife but it’s a great EDC. I also find the reverse S Meerkat to be fantastic for a small knife. While most Spyderco designs are great, the Meerkat is just genius (and I’m not referring to the lock, which I could take or leave).

I’d really like to see a larger reverse S Meerkat knife.

And probably for about the same reasons you would like to see a larger Meerkat model I would very much like to see a larger scale and much bigger Dodo model>> Now I would like to see your Meekat in a larger scale as well but I would also want to see the larger/bigger scale Meerkat and Dodo models most definitely available in Spyderedge. These curved blades just seem to have an awesome advantage with a Spyderedge :cool:

As far as whether or not the Civilian or Matriarch models would be the premier self defense weapons>> well I'm sure Mr. Glesser did a lot of study on the design before he introduced both models to that sector of the market. THANK GOD above I've never had to try out either one of those models in a self defense situation. As much as a Knife NUT as I am and as much of an enthusiast as I am on various unique blade designs I would still much prefer a firearm over any blade. And if I only had the choice of a blade for Self Defense I would far above prefer one of my Cold Steel Gurkha Kukri models. Because about 7 years ago it was one of my Gurkha Kukri models that got me free from being held up at gun point :eek: I even did a thread on it at the time.

But I still like the Reverse S and Hawkbill models for a myriad of reasons without even considering them for SD. My ideal folder for SD would really be my C-60 Ayoob model.