Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

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Stuman
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Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

Postby Stuman » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:24 am

Hey Sal,

Is there any chance of making a mule out of SM-100 as from what I hear it’s a fantastic steel, sort of like a hardenable Particle metallurgy Titanium/Stainless steel with fantastic hardness and toughness up to 65 HRC I hear and also because it has a lot of Titanium you can etch or flame etch/electro etch the blade with cool effects. Apparently it’s a laborious task to make this PM steel so it’s downfall is it’s price but it’s still definitely worth looking into.

What do you think Sal ?
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Re: Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

Postby dsvirsky » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:52 am

I can't answer for Sal and Spyderco, but SM 100 isn't steel. It's a hardenable titanium nickel alloy and it's outrageously expensive.

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Re: Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

Postby Stuman » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:40 pm

I’m aware it’s a titanium based alloy that is hardenable that can reach a high hardness and good toughness where as it takes on characteristics of both alloys but is a more expensive option other than LC200N and H2. The reason I’m asking is because Spyderco is the best at bringing the best metals and materials together and can do it at an affordable price, I mean steels such as Damasteel and Maxamet and many others were all considered way to expensive to put in full production but Spyderco managed to do it. So I’m really interested to see what Sal says.
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Re: Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

Postby Dreaded » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:13 pm

I'd rather see something like CPM-15V but my guess is since it's extremely difficult to grind in it's hardened state the machining negatives outweigh the wear resistance positives.

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tonijedi
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Re: Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

Postby tonijedi » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:33 pm

H2? Or H1? What is H2?

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Re: Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

Postby Carbon85 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:51 pm

sm100 has lead in it . i would not recommend using it for a every day, food cutting knife

also, it has a tendency to be brittle. it bends fairly easily which can be reheated back to straight

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Re: Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

Postby ABX2011 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:31 pm

Carbon85 wrote:sm100 has lead in it . i would not recommend using it for a every day, food cutting knife

also, it has a tendency to be brittle. it bends fairly easily which can be reheated back to straight
Brittle and bending easily are opposites. So which is it?

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Re: Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

Postby Stuman » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:20 pm

tonijedi wrote:H2? Or H1? What is H2?
Sorry H1, My Bad.
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Re: Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

Postby Stuman » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:32 pm

There’s is one or two custom knife makers using it and from what I hear and see it’s a fantastic alternative to stainless steel all be it an expensive one but hey if anyone can do it Spyderco can. Also Spyderco have pioneered new methods and or machinery to facilitate new steels so why not this one and every steel has good and bad characteristics also titanium isn’t brittle as it has extremely good tensile and shock resistant strength which is in part why it’s used in the super car industry but I’m not sure what would happen if it was mixed with other alloys but I’m aware that SM-100 has a load of titanium in its alloy composition.
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sal
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Re: Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

Postby sal » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:43 pm

Hi Stuman,

Welcome to our forum.

We felt it was too expensive to do a run of Mule Teams. The pieces would be very expensive and we didn't feel the market was large enough to support a run of 600 pcs.

sal

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Re: Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

Postby Stuman » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:51 am

sal wrote:Hi Stuman,

Welcome to our forum.

We felt it was too expensive to do a run of Mule Teams. The pieces would be very expensive and we didn't feel the market was large enough to support a run of 600 pcs.

sal
Hi Sal,

Thanks for your reply. It’s really ashame because it’s a fantastic alloy, you can do so many things to it but none the less I’d certainly buy one as a “one off” and I think because of its mistical properties I think others would to but may be in the not to distant future the market would be ready for such a fantastic metal/alloy.
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Re: Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

Postby razorsharp » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:00 pm

I had pretty poor experience with SM100... In the form of a half fingernail size chip on a Sm100 Santoku ground thicker than the superblue knife I was comparing it to. so i'd pass.

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Re: Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:55 pm

Stuman and sal, I am glad to see that this metal alloy is even being considered. Thank you for bringing it to the attention of myself and others.

This leads to a question I had, sal: Have you all at Spyderco ever experimented with nitinol alloys as either blade steel or perhaps components in the knives, such as handle or mechanics materials? As you likely know, these are nickel-titanium alloys and the discussion of SM100 reminded me of this.

Nitinol is called Shape Memory Alloy and people can purchase wires and sheets of it and, infact, back in the 1970s and later there were some UDT, Navy Seal Under Water Demolition Teams that made use of it in fixed-blade knives because it does not rust and it had other uses. Now there are experiments to use it in micromachine parts and other areas. Some types of it are used in eyeglass frames and such. I do not know if it can have its edge-holding abilities increased through proper engineering.

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Re: Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

Postby kvdo » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:58 pm

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:Stuman and sal, I am glad to see that this metal alloy is even being considered. Thank you for bringing it to the attention of myself and others.

This leads to a question I had, sal: Have you all at Spyderco ever experimented with nitinol alloys as either blade steel or perhaps components in the knives, such as handle or mechanics materials? As you likely know, these are nickel-titanium alloys and the discussion of SM100 reminded me of this.

Nitinol is called Shape Memory Alloy and people can purchase wires and sheets of it and, infact, back in the 1970s and later there were some UDT, Navy Seal Under Water Demolition Teams that made use of it in fixed-blade knives because it does not rust and it had other uses. Now there are experiments to use it in micromachine parts and other areas. Some types of it are used in eyeglass frames and such. I do not know if it can have its edge-holding abilities increased through proper engineering.
It looks like there have already been attempts at taking Nickel-Titanium alloys and coating them with TiN (Titanium Nitride). I wonder if it's possible to create a Nickel-Titanium-Nitrogen alloy that has some mix of the elastic properties of Nitinol and wear resistance properties of TiN?

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sal
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Re: Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

Postby sal » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:28 pm

Hi SEF,

We've tried a whole lot of alloys over the years. If they were good and affordable, we'd generally try it. we even made knives with magnetic "locks". But in reality, the market is sometimes funny about weird expensive stuff and we lose our butts.

sal

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Re: Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

Postby Stuman » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:57 pm

sal wrote:Hi SEF,

We've tried a whole lot of alloys over the years. If they were good and affordable, we'd generally try it. we even made knives with magnetic "locks". But in reality, the market is sometimes funny about weird expensive stuff and we lose our butts.

sal
Hi Sal,

Like Spyderedgeforever wrote have you considered using SM-100 for scales or handle material or some decorative material in place of titanium like on the Spydiechef you could use SM-100 instead of been a titanium handle that would be the cherry on top of LC200 cake. Can you imagen one chemically or electroetched or even flame etched I mean WOW ! That would be gorgeous and because it’s hardenable you could even harden the lock bar face where as you can’t do that with titanium on its own. There’s so much room to play with, with this alloy and it doesn’t stop there either.
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Re: Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:23 pm

This came up some time ago and if I remember correctly Cliff Stamp chimed in claiming that while SM-100 can achieve hardness similar to blade steels that it was a quite brittle in comparison.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:27 pm

-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

Postby Stuman » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:28 pm

bearfacedkiller wrote:Found it.

viewtopic.php?t=66055&start=20
There is a bit more going on on that page than just SM-100 but still I’m in agreement and can see the cons out weigh pros when it comes to bladed objects in SM-100 but it’s perfect for handles or scales, I mean titanium on its own is a soft alloy compared to steel and I think SM-100 would make a cool piece that is not just a collectors knife and is a working knife in terms of scales or handles material.
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Re: Sal SM-100 mule knife ?

Postby Bill1170 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:51 pm

Stuman wrote:
bearfacedkiller wrote:Found it.

viewtopic.php?t=66055&start=20
There is a bit more going on on that page than just SM-100 but still I’m in agreement and can see the cons out weigh pros when it comes to bladed objects in SM-100 but it’s perfect for handles or scales, I mean titanium on its own is a soft alloy compared to steel and I think SM-100 would make a cool piece that is not just a collectors knife and is a working knife in terms of scales or handles material.
For the money SM-100 commands, I can picture dozens of handle materials I’d rather have. Titanium may be soft compared to hardened steel, but it is already much harder than a handle material needs to be to do its job. Why would harder be “better”? Making a handle from super expensive hard metal seems like an answer to a question almost nobody is asking. Perhaps Stuman should commission some custom scales of SM-100 for his favorite knife and claim bragging rights to a knife unique in all the world.


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