Controversial Spyderco Military Issue: All feedback welcomed!

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I am going to say this and I know this may seem controversial, but I welcome your sincere and honest feedback.

Before I post this, I want you to know, I do not own a Spyderco Military or a Spyderco Para Military, and while I DO see the place for thinner cutting edges and thinner blade grinds, I do lean more towards thicker saber and scandi type grinds, with the exceptions being the "hollow grinds" on the Spyderco Atlantic and Pacific Salts.

The following thing you are about to read is the main reason why I have not yet purchased a Spyderco Military or Paramilitary. Again, I want to add these caveats:

1 I am NOT criticizing nor am I putting down anyone who loves and enjoys the current Millie design/s.
2 I could be wrong on this statement.

Here it is: The current Military and Para Military blade profiles and point profiles are too thin and too narrow for my tastes.

I found a picture in a book about knives of one of the original Spyderco Millies, and tell me if I am correct and this was not merely a printing error: There was at least one Spyderco Military (it said "Spyderco" and "Military" on the blade itself) that had a broader, thicker blade profile than all current Millies and PM's. Did you all know this?

Perhaps I should try to scan the picture and post it here so you can all take a look at it, is that a good idea?

When I saw that picture I thought "OH MY! WOW! THAT IS THE MILITARY I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE!" and then I looked at images of the current/present Millie and I thought "I don't understand. What happened? Why did they decide to make the blade profile and point narrower and thinner?"

The Millie in this picture I speak of has greater resemblance to an Endura. It is almost as if the Endura and the Military had a child and their offspring was this beautiful functional version of the Millie with a thicker broader blade.

Any answers on this matter are welcome.

I know some will read this and say "Well if you want the broader blade shape why not get an Endura?" It is because I like this older version of the Millie. What happened to it and why did it go to the narrower point and blade?

[Wanimator]

I'd have to see the photo.

[Stuart Ackerman]

I had one of the first ones, and the blade was 4mm and they are now 5/32 inch...around 3.96875 inch...not much difference...

My reference?
http://spydiewiki.com/index.php?title=C36_Military

[SpyderEdgeForever]

When it comes to your personal choice for the Millie, do you prefer it with the very sharp narrower tip or would you like it to be broadened up a bit and a bit thicker, Stuart?

[Stuart Ackerman]

As is, seriously...

I now have a fluted Ti Millie... :)

[anagarika]

@SEF,

This shows the tip isn’t that fragile.
https://youtu.be/omp5yL8NDhw

[awa54]

I like the Military and Para the way they are, if I think I'll be doing harsher cutting chores I have a Manix for that... or my CS Recon tanto!

The acute tip shape is what it is; very useful, plenty strong for responsible use and *not* a hatchet, screwdriver or pry bar. I feel like the Military is the "slicey" large folder and the Manix XL is the "beast", both have stronger pivots and handle structures than the Japanese FRN knives and stouter blade stock, yet retain the slicing capability by having taller blades in order to keep a similar bevel angle. I don't own an Endura, but my SB Stretch is definitely not as beefy as a Military or a PM2 as far as overall feel, despite having a more reinforced point.

[Brock O Lee]

The tips are not too fragile IMHO. In fact, I have considerably thinned out (reprofiled) several of my Militaries and PM2’s and they’ve performed beautifully over the last 3+ years.

[The Mastiff]

I don't think your having an opinion about a style or shape is controversial SEF. We all have preferences.

I got out my oldest Millie. It must not be old enough ( it's S30V not 440V) but I can't really see much difference. I'm curious about the older ones now.

Joe

[toomzz]

Hi SEF, I am also curious about the older ones. Back in 1997 I owned one of the first Millies in S60V but I lost it. I can not remember that it was thicker than my current Millies. After that lost one I purchased multiple Millies and PMs (1 & 2). I never experienced and issues with a thin blade or poor tip. I love the FFG blade geometry.
Nowadays we have so many supersteels that go well with thin blades that you almost can not go wrong.

Tom

[vivi]

In regards to your question I would stop buying Militarys and Paras if they switched to saber grinds. There would be no benefit for me at all. In fact I have taken various Military folders as low as 8 degrees per side and they were still robust enough to chop with.

If anything I would like to see the Military ship with a 3mm thick FFG blade like the Police.

What cutting tasks can you do with a Pacific Salt that you can't do with a Military?

What benefits do you see during every day use from a saber grind compared to full flat?



On the left is a Pacific Salt I reground to a flat saber grind instead of hollow saber, then halved the edge angle. It cuts pretty well but there is noticeable drag compared to the next knife.

The middle knife is a Para 2 that was EDC'd for a few years. I dropped the edge angle quite a bit and it held up to everything I've ever used it for.

The far right knife is a 3mm thick Police 3 blade, given the thinnest edge of the bunch. I would have full confidence chopping through 1-3" thick branches with it, despite such a thin edge. It's a glorious food prep knife, and effortlessly divides cardboard. I wish my Pacific Salt has the slicing capablities of this knife. For a decade I've dreamed of a knife that's sized and ground like a Police 3, but FRN and rust proof steel like my Pacific Salt.

I see no benefits to the saber grind for how I use knives. What is it you find beneficial about them?

[Evil D]

SEF buddy I think the strength thing is all in your head, as it is with most people who obsess over "stronger" blades. I think I asked you this once in another thread, how many times have you actually broke a blade and if you ever have were you doing something reasonable or were you doing a job that could have been done with a better/correct tool for the job?

I have a regound S110V Military and I've used that knife pretty hard while cutting branches, and apart from it slicing far better I didn't notice any difference in strength. Yes the tip is far thinner, but I'm also not stabbing or drilling holes with it. I do get the appeal of over built knives, I just don't see the need for them all the time, and I'd even go so far as to say they're a waste of performance 99.9% of the time if you're using a knife for a knife job and not trying to use a knife for a job that has a proper tool you could be using instead.

I have a sick obsession with Striders, I love how beefy they are and I love the idea of a folder that I can abuse and use for things it isn't designed to do, despite the fact that I very rarely use a knife for the wrong job, I still like the idea. The reality is compared to even a factory grind Military they just don't slice as well and for the vast majority of my daily uses they would be an inferior tool. This is why I own 5 Militaries and 0 Striders. For all realistic knife jobs the Military is probably overkill when it comes to how much strength is really needed for cutting something.

[ejames13]

Very interesting perspective as I’ve often wished the Para and Millie were 3mm stock. To each his own!

[The Deacon]

Can't really see any difference in blade shape among these three, at least nothing that can't be attribuuted to normal variance between blades hand finished on a power grinder. The one on left is the oldest I have, a 2000 Forum Military in 440V. Middle is a BG42 CF Sprint Run from about 11 years ago. The one on the right is the newest one I own, a Left Handed S30V Military from 3-4 years ago. None have been used or sharpened. The Forum Miiltary is thicker, .160" vs .148" for the other two on my cheap Harbor Freight digital calipers. So, about .25 mm difference between old and new. Is that significant? I'm sure some will say yes and some will say no. Is it controversial? Possibly to a drama llama. :p

EDITED TO ADD: As for the photo you saw, I'll just say that photos can be deceptive and knife photos especially so. The angle at which a knife is photographed can, and often does, make the blade look shorter, longer, wider, or narrower. If you prefer the older Military models, they do show up occasionally on eBay and the BF Exchange.

[Archimedes]

The Military is the knife I carry when I know I am going to have to use a knife to cut things.

[Tdog]

I don't know if the Millie "issue" would be considered controversial? Different blades are made for different uses. In general I prefer thinner stock, thinner grind and thinner behind the edge. I use my knives primarily for cutting/slicing. In general (excepting heavy use knives) I would prefer most Spyderco's to be all around thinner. I realize in many cases Spyderco's may be "overbuilt" for those that try and use them for tasks not intended but as a pure cutting tool imo, thinner is usually better. Yes I love my Millie's, they are great knives. The handles are a bit long for me but hey, that's ok. :spyder:

[twinboysdad]

SEF,

I can't recommend the Shaman to you fast enough. You will not be disappointed. I know it doesn't address your Millie question, but that Shaman is right up your alley

[gmhauy]

Here it is: The current Military and Para Military blade profiles and point profiles are too thin and too narrow for my tastes.

That's exactly why I am sticking to the Manix and never took the leap of buying a Military, even though I have been looking for long for a Spyderco with a longer blade (yes I know there is the Manix XL, but that's another debate).

So I guess it boils down to everyone's preferences and the use we make of our knives - hardly a subject for discussion - or else just for the pleasure of dicussing, which is what I am doing here :) .

As regards thicker stock I got myself the Manix BackLock as soon as it was issued and I have never been happier with a knife :D (seriously, the more I use it the more I like it).
(Shaman is very nice, but given that its blade length is more or less that of the Manix, and I already have two of these, that would seem like overkill. I'm gonna wait until Spyderco releases the Shaman with a different steel, carbon maybe? M4 Shaman anyone? But I am veering off track, sorry).

Gerard :spyder:

[ABX2011]

As for blades, I love the PM2 and Millie just the way they are. And the Para 3 for that matter.

[Doc Dan]

I really like the design of the Military blade. It is a good, all around type of blade. It is a modified and dropped clip point so it can be useful across a wide spectrum of needs. It is not a pry bar. It can double as a food prep knife, a dagger, a skinner, and many other knife tasks. It is not an axe so I would not cut down a tree with one, but I have seen batoning done, which I thought was a little weird, but the knife took it all in stride.