The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

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Eli Chaps
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The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

#1

Post by Eli Chaps »

A little while back, Doc Dan started a thread about BD1 experience. See here: //forum.spyderco.com/viewto ... t=real+bd1

My stance on BD1 has been solid as a wet dish rag. :D I've ridiculed it. I've praised it. I've been lukewarm to it. But Dan's thread got me to make a commitment. I decided to make a conscious effort to sharpen my Manix 2 LW to a high level, record it so I would remember, and then use it with an open mind.

I sharpened it the same way I did my Cutlery Shoppe M2LW S90V version, except I skipped the translucent Arkansas stone on that one. But essentially the process was the same and that means stropped down to 1um. Neither knife was hair whittling sharp as I just reckon I'm not meant to produce such edges, but they were both very sharp and fully capable of shaving facial hair.

People use so many adjectives to describe sharpness any more that I don't even know how to differentiate all the categorizations. But, I can say this: The night I sharpened up my S90V one, I was kicked back in my recliner with my legs up and out and wearing shorts. I was opening and closing and generally fondling my knife as I am oft inclined to do when my wife of many years advised that I had imbibed a few cans of hop water and that I should put my sharp things away. Being male, I guffawed and continued my ritual until, yes, I cut the top of my right thigh. Just closing the knife and barely brushing the tip across my skin was enough to bring about a red-spewing cut a little shy of a half inch long. And yes she noticed and yes shw said she told me so. :( :)

Anyways, I'm coming up on the 30 day mark with my standard BD1 M2LW. As I mention in Dan's thread, my EDC is mostly slicing up apples, hard salami, and cheese, splitting oranges, breaking down thinner cardboard boxes like food type packages, opening envelopes and slicing tape, and that sort of lighter type but daily use. Sprinkle in some harder use on tough packaging, some abrasive materials, etc. I use my knife everyday but these days my circumstances mean that is not in a rough or harsh way.

I have also had to resist the urge to do any stropping to my knife. BD1 is receptive to stropping that I can run it on the backside of an old belt and feel the difference. But that would be cheating as S90V won't respond to that kind of naked stropping.

My conclusions? BD1 is an excellent EDC steel. I didn't baby it and I have no corrosion issues and the edge is still absolutely fully functional. It is losing it's arm hair-shaving ability, it still will in most spots on the blade but it is fading but it will still cut receipt paper and the like. I can break down a 12-pack box like it is butter and still churn out 1/8" apple slices for my mid-morning snack.

Yes, I can just slightly feel the difference in the edges when I touch the apex of both knives. The S90V, after the same amount time and use, is still sharper to the touch and will readily shave better. But in practical terms? There's no difference in my uses for 30 days and I suspect it will take quite sometime for the S90V to pull ahead in perceptible differentiation.

"Good" is a relative term. No doubt S90V will out-leg the BD1 and will just keep right on performing but I honestly think that will take quite some time in my applications. And, like I said, I can easily maintain the BD1 to stretch that time out even further.

I'm obviously not saying anything new here. I'm just sharing my experience when I put a concerted effort into having an open mind and just letting the knife talk to me. Like most of us, I love new steels and I get giddy about trying out new stuff and often that can cloud practical judgement. I get flustered when I see people essential condemn some of these steels and scare folks off of them, (highly prevalent among YouTube reviewers) when for all reasonable daily applications for the average user, they are just fine.

So that's my long winded spiel. Are you willing to give "inferior" steels an honest 30 day chance?
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Re: The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

#2

Post by Cheddarnut »

Fear and scarcity mentality run this machine, shhhhhhhh
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Re: The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

#3

Post by Surfingringo »

I’ll play, but a month is a little too hardcore for me. I’ll give it a week though. My weapon of choice will be a Byrd Meadowlark 2 in 8cr13.
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Re: The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

#4

Post by Eli Chaps »

Surfingringo wrote:I’ll play, but a month is a little too hardcore for me. I’ll give it a week though. My weapon of choice will be a Byrd Meadowlark 2 in 8cr13.
This was inspired by your "Last Chance" challenge only in that I think the spirit was more size and design.

"Inferior" is intentionally in quotes in the title as it is so subjective. Although I've never personally used it, based on what I've studied, I suspect H1 would be an inferior EDC steel for my needs. But for you, it is supreme (at least for the fishing EDC).

Thanks for playing and I look forward to your response!
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Re: The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

#5

Post by jpm2 »

Been carrying and using 1095 for the last 2 months.
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Re: The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

#6

Post by The Deacon »

To me non-stainless = inferior, so I might try carrying a Super Blue Stretch for a month. :p

When it comes to stainless, I don't think Spyderco has ever used a steel I'd call "inferior". Even the alphanumeric soup used in the ones from China is head and shoulders above "surgical stainless", "rostefrei" , "Inox", "pakimascus", and some of the other crap that's out there. I'd be happy to carry a Stretch in it, or any other decently stainless steel Spyderco has ever used.
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Re: The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

#7

Post by toomzz »

The Deacon wrote:To me non-stainless = inferior, so I might try carrying a Super Blue Stretch for a month. :p.
:D :D :D :D :D
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Re: The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

#8

Post by Nate »

My experience and sentiments are similar to Eli's. I have and use a wide array of the exotic alloys in my collection, but have found that practically speaking, they are all fine, from 8Cr on up, for my basic EDC needs.

If I was an avid hunter or fisherman, or had a job that called for cutting miles of cardboard and thick pallet straps all day, I expect I'd see more pronounced differences, but that just isn't the case for me.

I'm a father of three working a desk job who spends far more time on the sidelines of soccer fields than doing demanding cutting tasks. Not a complaint, just the reality. I do enjoy getting out in the woods when I can, and always have a Spydie with me when I do, but even then a little whitting or making marshmellow sticks and some food prep isn't too demanding.

(On the flip side, my other big cutlery addiction is Busse fixed blades. I absolutely beat the snot out of those blades every chance I get, mostly clearing work on acreage in the family. :D)
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Re: The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

#9

Post by Evil D »

I'm not sure what I have that qualifies as inferior. Like Paul pointed out, that could be something as simple as stainless vs non stainless, or do you base it off of edge retention, or toughness, or ease of sharpening? It's all in what you expect a steel to do. For me there is value in a really good average steel, that may not hold an edge forever or be able to cut car doors in half, but will hold an edge long enough and be tough enough and easy enough to sharpen for daily use. I like different steels for these different reasons so it's hard to choose what I'd consider inferior.
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Re: The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

#10

Post by jpm2 »

↑ Yes, depending on use.
I'm cheating with 1095 because in some ways, it's way superior than the stainless I have laying around, but well below the usual HSS I always have on me and use.
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Re: The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

#11

Post by Evil D »

jpm2 wrote:↑ Yes, depending on use.
I'm cheating with 1095 because in some ways, it's way superior than the stainless I have laying around, but well below the usual HSS I always have on me and use.
I almost quoted you about 1095 because it's one of my favorite steels but many would consider it inferior compared to some of the more modern offerings we have these days. Just a few years ago my biggest priority was all out edge retention but as my needs change I've gotta a more open mind about other qualities. It's all relative to the user because what one person considers difficult to sharpen may not be for the next guy, and the resulting gains in edge retention may be well worth it for him. Others like Vivi seem to prioritize rust resistance above all else so as long as the other qualities are decent then it's a winner. There was a time when I never would have considered H1 for an EDC but my uses and needs have changed so much that it's probably more than I need now.
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Re: The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

#12

Post by tonijedi »

I've already told a bit about my experience with the Meadowlark 2, but here it goes again.
My usual carry is a Delica in either VG-10 or ZDP-189, but as I was 6 weeks in Hungary I had to use my "Hungarian knife", that is the Byrd Meadowlark 2. y wife is Hungarian and we use to go to Hungary for some weeks every year, often more than once a year, I bought a knife to stay there so I don't need to worry about taking a knife with me every time (once when I was flying from Budapest someone stole a Benchmade mini grip from my luggage :mad: )Living half-way between a tourist and a local I had to use the knife far more than what I use to do on my "regular" life, as I was living in different houses (with bad kitchen knives) and still had to cook. So it saw a lot of kitchen use, opening packages, etc. The steel rolled from chopping (a lot of) food on the cutting board. I wouldn't say it's a bad steel because of that, many of the regular kitchen knives are worse, and the beauty of it is that I could bring it back to shaving sharp (I tested on my forearm as per the rules) using a mug for sharpening and the toilet paper's inner tube for stropping.
It even made me think that if I had some other "better" steel I wouldn't be able to do the same with the same effort or to the same sharpness. I'm very happy to know I have my trusty Meadowlark waiting for me every time I go to visit my in-laws.
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Re: The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

#13

Post by Doc Dan »

I decided some time ago that using "inferior" steels is a good thing. I had a conversation with Surfingringo not long ago about the relative merits of steels like S90V and S110V. I am okay with those steels but I do not see enough benefit from them to outweigh the cons. Steels like BD1, VG-10, 1095 are okay for most of the things I need a knife for and a lot easier to live with. So, if I accept this challenge, I am already half in anyway. The only downside is that I could not use my K390, which I love. But, okay, maybe not 30 days, but 2 weeks I can do.
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Re: The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

#14

Post by jpm2 »

Evil D wrote:
jpm2 wrote:↑ Yes, depending on use.
I'm cheating with 1095 because in some ways, it's way superior than the stainless I have laying around, but well below the usual HSS I always have on me and use.
I almost quoted you about 1095 because it's one of my favorite steels but many would consider it inferior compared to some of the more modern offerings we have these days. Just a few years ago my biggest priority was all out edge retention but as my needs change I've gotta a more open mind about other qualities. It's all relative to the user because what one person considers difficult to sharpen may not be for the next guy, and the resulting gains in edge retention may be well worth it for him. Others like Vivi seem to prioritize rust resistance above all else so as long as the other qualities are decent then it's a winner. There was a time when I never would have considered H1 for an EDC but my uses and needs have changed so much that it's probably more than I need now.
Keeping in mind my use, wants, and needs are unique to me, the superior/inferior steel thing boils down to 2 things, how easily it takes a super fine edge, and holds it with non typical use.
It would be nice to have corrosion resistance, but all stainless steels I've tried are either picky about taking a fine edge, require a more obtuse sharpened angle to resist excessive rolling/chipping damage, or both. When trying these at work, I either have to stop and repair the edge all the time, or sharpen to a more obtuse angle and use more force to make the cuts.
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Re: The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

#15

Post by Bill1170 »

Like Deacon, I find stain resistance a superior attribute in both kitchen and pocket cutlery. I think all my non-stainless knives were gifts from others except for two machetes I use in the yard. Compared to fifty years ago, we need to surrender very little in exchange for stain resistance today. My least stainless carry knives are ZDP-189, and the trade off is worth it to me for what ZDP brings to the table.
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Re: The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

#16

Post by vivi »

I'm currently EDCing a Cold Steel Spike in 4116 stainless steel. What I've read about 4116 indicates something on the level of 420hc with better corrosion resistance.

It's been meeting my needs just fine. Takes a hair popping edge easily, hasn't rusted despite a few rainy hikes and cutting a lot of fruit, and holds an edge well enough for me.

I proposed a 30 day Byrd challenge for similar reasons. Seeing people refuse to buy knives for no other reason than they're VG10 or S30V makes me want to roll my eyes ;)
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Re: The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

#17

Post by NoFair »

I've used O1 for weeks with no issues. Easily takes a great edge and unless I'm cutting something really abrasive there are noe problems with edge holding. It does corrode really quickly though so I have to clean it better after gutting fish etc. than I would with most other steels I use..
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Re: The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

#18

Post by Evil D »

I've been thinking a lot about carrying a Golden Stone for touch ups and switching to a steel like H1, then just touching up the edge as needed throughout my day. That isn't always convenient but lately my needs haven't been such that I wear out an edge in one day anyway.
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Re: The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

#19

Post by jpm2 »

I think for non work, I could get by with H1 for 75% of my use.
It is nice to know you always have a sharp edge backup that doesn't degrade from corrosion. I carry a DF2-SE just for this.
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Re: The 30 Day "Inferior" Steel Challenge

#20

Post by Donut »

I say Deacon is cheating because Super Blue is superior in performance to most of the stainless steels out there. :p

IMO, CTS-BD1 is a pretty nice steel, it's just not super at wear resistance.
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