MAP policy change? 35%

[MacLaren]

I've been thinking about this a lot.
And to me, it boils down to trust.
And I trust Spyderco. Win loose or draw

[wsdavies]

So you think dealers should be happy to carry and promote the brand to make $5 on a $100? Many dealers don't bother selling Spyderco as there is not enough meat on the bone. This is not greed, it's economic reality. As I was saying, I sell Spyderco because I love the brand and they are what got me into knives. From a purely business perspective it's not very enticing especially since there are so many fakes out there that undercut the legit seller. I didn't ask for a MAP increase of 5% but I sure am glad they are doing it as it will allow me to keep selling the knives I love. I really respect the fact that Spyderco cares enough to take care of dealers like us that have been loyally carrying water for them for years. As I said before this is a company that still has a soul. Here's a story for you. When I 1st started selling knives I got a knock on the door one Sunday night...I got served as part of a lawsuit against a knife company (not Spyderco) Some joker cut himself using the knife I sold him as a pry-bar and was suing me, the knife designer, distributors and knife company. I just had started and didn't have liability insurance. I called the knife company and they wouldn't even answer me back to give me any advice. I couldn't even get any lawyers to call me back. So I persisted and called my sales rep and said this isn't right, someone from the company needs to call me. So finally the lawyer from their insurance company contacted me and put me in touch with an attorney. Cost me $8,000 to get written off the case. $8,000 on a knife I made ten bucks on. I couldn't believe a company I worked my butt off selling and promoting their brand wouldn't even call me back. So, having dealt with many knife companies since then I can tell you that Spyderco are decent people and worth supporting as are many of us small dealers who work very hard to take care of people.

So Spyderco gets nothing and the dealers get everything. If Spyderco was getting more then yeah, but just the dealers get more? That's sad in a way I can't even express. Could you tell us which dealers pushed for this?

[murphjd25]

I can’t believe people are so up in arms about this. Prices on EVERYTHING go up eventually. I’ll keep buying and supporting Spyderco as I see fit when something catches my eye.

[JRinFL]

Interesting thread.

I get the impression that many of you would be happier if we made all of our knives in China (cheap) and only sold to Walmart & Amazon (cheap) so YOU can get what YOU want as cheaply as possible? Or maybe we could get our crew, dealers, advertisers, shippers, suppliers, etc., to work for free?

It is our dealers that have asked us to do this. Not just B&M stores, but internet as well. Internet dealers have thanked us for doing it. The very same dealers that you get our knives from. Surely you aren't saying that you don't care about them, are you?

We don't make any more money from map. In fact it costs us more to monitor and enforce. Please try to broaden your understanding of production and distribution. You will have greater appreciation for what it takes to get you our product.

sal

I did not see anyone say anything similar to moving production to China so that’s a bit unfair. What I see is customer push back to ever increasing prices on a product they love. I see them saying that instead of impulse buys, they will have to make fewer purchases moving forward. How that works out for you and your dealers only you can say.

The margins the dealer claims to be making seem to imply that selling Spydercos is not profitable (or very very minimally) and this distribution method does not seem sustainable even with the MAP increase. If you really want to help dealers, you would void the warranty on knives purchased from Amazon, Walmart, Jet, etc. Many manufacturers already do this as you know.

[JRinFL]

I can’t believe people are so up in arms about this. Prices on EVERYTHING go up eventually. I’ll keep buying and supporting Spyderco as I see fit when something catches my eye.

People are complaining about the TWO increases, MAP going up at the same time as the yearly increases.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Jr, if I may ask, what would you like to see them do, in order to make sure that 1 the knife sellers are able to compete with the big massive sellers, and, the consumer such as you and me can still get the knives at reasonable prices? What is a good "middle ground" from your perspective ?

[MacLaren]

I can’t believe people are so up in arms about this. Prices on EVERYTHING go up eventually. I’ll keep buying and supporting Spyderco as I see fit when something catches my eye.

People are complaining about the TWO increases, MAP going up at the same time as the yearly increases.

And,, there's not a thing wrong with that imo.
It's a double whamie and it stings.

[Eli Chaps]

Interesting thread.

I get the impression that many of you would be happier if we made all of our knives in China (cheap) and only sold to Walmart & Amazon (cheap) so YOU can get what YOU want as cheaply as possible? Or maybe we could get our crew, dealers, advertisers, shippers, suppliers, etc., to work for free?

It is our dealers that have asked us to do this. Not just B&M stores, but internet as well. Internet dealers have thanked us for doing it. The very same dealers that you get our knives from. Surely you aren't saying that you don't care about them, are you?

We don't make any more money from map. In fact it costs us more to monitor and enforce. Please try to broaden your understanding of production and distribution. You will have greater appreciation for what it takes to get you our product.

sal

I did not see anyone say anything similar to moving production to China so that’s a bit unfair. What I see is customer push back to ever increasing prices on a product they love. I see them saying that instead of impulse buys, they will have to make fewer purchases moving forward. How that works out for you and your dealers only you can say.

The margins the dealer claims to be making seem to imply that selling Spydercos is not profitable (or very very minimally) and this distribution method does not seem sustainable even with the MAP increase. If you really want to help dealers, you would void the warranty on knives purchased from Amazon, Walmart, Jet, etc. Many manufacturers already do this as you know.

Oh I can only imagine the uproar if they did that.

Good grief. You have a business founder, builder and owner telling what they did and why and you have an actual dealer supporting all of it yet it isn't good enough.

This whole thing is nuts. I sat in a meeting today that was largely focused on how our pricing isn't competitive enough. Our product is superior but maybe not quite enough to offset the MASSIVE discounts one of our competitors is offering. Of course, they can offer those discounts because they basically use slave labor, manipulate the international market and the government subsidizes the company.

I think a whole lot of people out there have no idea how much the business landscape has changed in the last twenty years. And you know what a HUGE part of that shift was? Us wanting everything as cheap as possible.

It's amazing to me that Sal doesn't just shut this thing down and I think that speaks volumes to his character and his real commitment to the customer.

Sigh... Maybe I should just go back to just using my Spydercos and less talking about them.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

You can say that again, Eli. Sal has consistently shown true commitment and superb character towards the Spyderco customer. That fact alone is enough to keep me a customer, even without all the amazing designs, which ofcourse flow from the same commitment to providing excellent cutting tools.

[hitormiss]

This is just what I needed to stop senselessly buying more Spyderco knives. Production costs do not go up that much every year.

[Liquid Cobra]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I’m a Spyderco customer for life.

Sal, thank you for all you and Spyderco do for the knife world. I want and hope everyone in the mix benefits from the sale of a Spyderco knife. The manufacturer, the dealer, the end user and Spyderco itself.

Keep up the great work.

[pinepig2]

When I look at something like the Native 5 G10, I see a fairly labor-intensive product that is possibly somewhat under-priced. So in that context the MAP change is more of a correction to get the pricing in line with production costs.

Of course this is pure conjecture on my part...

[sal]

Hi Hitormiss,

Welcome to our forum.

I'm surprised to hear you presume to know how much our production costs increase. :confused: You must have inside information on our company costs?

sal

[Bile Bob]

Meanwhile the price on the BHQ M4 Millie went down $20 and the price of the brown Southard went down to $154. For how long I can't say but they are available @ that price right now. IMO considering the materials involved the Southard is a steal @ that price.

OTOH if I did my math correctly the MSRP of the upcoming cf/s90v Para3 is $319.95, so @ 30% off the price will be pushed to $223.96. Who in?

[PaleMoon]

Amen. My business deals with these issues daily and I think often people don't realize just how fierce it is out there and just how unfairly lopsided the scales are in favor of unethical entities.

I haven't stepped foot in a Walmart in years and only ever have when I absolutely had to and I don't shop on Amazon.

A large knife maker moved into our area and when they did there was also a bunch of hoopla about them moving some of their knife production to China. All the anti-America rhetoric came spewing forth. The owner of the company did a lengthy interview in which he explained they only moved a small percentage of the production to China and only because Walmart had required them to meet such a low price point there was no other way for them to go. But boy, those big ole loud voices sure didn't quite shopping at Walmart.

Running your own business is one of those truly invaluable eye-openers that I wish more people could experience in their lifetime. It really gives you a whole new perspective on a bunch of stuff, to say the least.

[Eli Chaps]

Amen. My business deals with these issues daily and I think often people don't realize just how fierce it is out there and just how unfairly lopsided the scales are in favor of unethical entities.

I haven't stepped foot in a Walmart in years and only ever have when I absolutely had to and I don't shop on Amazon.

A large knife maker moved into our area and when they did there was also a bunch of hoopla about them moving some of their knife production to China. All the anti-America rhetoric came spewing forth. The owner of the company did a lengthy interview in which he explained they only moved a small percentage of the production to China and only because Walmart had required them to meet such a low price point there was no other way for them to go. But boy, those big ole loud voices sure didn't quite shopping at Walmart.

Running your own business is one of those truly invaluable eye-openers that I wish more people could experience in their lifetime. It really gives you a whole new perspective on a bunch of stuff, to say the least.

Oh, I don't run my own business. I work for a major corporation. I can't even imagine trying to run a smallish business on the global market these days.

Sorry if I gave the impression I owned a business. I agree 10000% with you though.

[mattman]

I did not see anyone say anything similar to moving production to China so that’s a bit unfair.

Several people in the thread mentioned buying only Byrd, going forward, so Im guessing that's what sal was referring to...?

I can’t believe people are so up in arms about this. Prices on EVERYTHING go up eventually. I’ll keep buying and supporting Spyderco as I see fit when something catches my eye.

People are complaining about the TWO increases, MAP going up at the same time as the yearly increases.

Kristi's response early on seemed to indicate that MSRP was holding across the majority of the line... So we're really only talking about the MAP increase...

[sal]

I was being glib.

sal

[mrtodd777]

I work for a facility that manufactures specialty tooling primarily for the defense and telecom industries. My position as production supervisor has me dealing with metal procurement, Cnc tooling, composites, you name it. Today I was also in a leaders meeting discussing our pricing and how we have been able to remain extremely competitive while consistently being forced to marginally raise our prices. The truth is fellas, unless you deal with this particular type of material procurement,increased cost of machine maintenance, cnc software and autocad licensing price increases.. I could go on for days. So unless you have done that on a daily basis, you have no idea what you are talking about. I’m not trying to be rude, just being real.

Here is an example of how costs have gone up for the manufacturer. Today, one of machinists crashed his probe into the table. Not only did it scrap the probe, there was also damage to the spindle. $7000 later I was back up and running. 4 years ago that same fix would have cost me $4000. That’s a lot of delicas, just saying...

Let me tell y’all, this stuff is not cheap to purchase, or to machine, and the prices we pay as craft machinists must be reflected in our pricing of our finished product. You guys should be counting your lucky stars Sal doesn’t look at the cost of the tooling required to machine some of this stuff and just hang up his boots and go sailing.

Bottom line is, none of you need these knives. Go buy a gas station special if an extra $10 bucks is going to kill ya.

[RamZar]

Meanwhile the price on the BHQ M4 Millie went down $20 and the price of the brown Southard went down to $154. For how long I can't say but they are available @ that price right now. IMO considering the materials involved the Southard is a steal @ that price.

OTOH if I did my math correctly the MSRP of the upcoming cf/s90v Para3 is $319.95, so @ 30% off the price will be pushed to $223.96. Who in?

Good values will be found in dealer exclusives (they're allowed to discount them at any time) and discontinued Spyderco knives which covers your first paragraph.

Para3 S90V/CF Sprint has MSRP of $319.95 and if it arrives at dealers before the end of the year the MAP will be $191.97 (40% off MSRP) and then after that it'll be $207.97 (35% off MSRP) not $223.96. I want one before year end. It'll be my only Para3.