Dragonfly 2 vs Urban

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 4444
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: Dragonfly 2 vs Urban

Postby Wartstein » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:31 pm

Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:27 pm
pantagana23 wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:30 am
Wartstein wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:21 am

That “horn” is called the kick. It keeps the blade from contacting the lock bar or back spacer.
......
Yes, but while it is mandatory to have on the Urban (as a "stop"), not so much on the Chap, cause the latter has an internal stop pin? So theoretically one could grind the "kick" away a bit on a Chap?
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

User avatar
Doc Dan
Member
Posts: 8178
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.

Re: Dragonfly 2 vs Urban

Postby Doc Dan » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:35 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:31 pm
Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:27 pm
pantagana23 wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:30 am
Wartstein wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:21 am

That “horn” is called the kick. It keeps the blade from contacting the lock bar or back spacer.
......
Yes, but while it is mandatory to have on the Urban (as a "stop"), not so much on the Chap, cause the latter has an internal stop pin? So theoretically one could grind the "kick" away a bit on a Chap?
The stop pin keeps the blade from over rotating in the other direction, prevents blade play, and redirects forces. The kick is there to keep the blade from going too far down in the handle and dulling the blade.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

"Until we meet again, may the good Lord take a liking to you."
(Roy Rogers)


NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050

User avatar
pantagana23
Member
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:52 am
Location: Croatia

Re: Dragonfly 2 vs Urban

Postby pantagana23 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:05 am

wrdwrght wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:10 pm

You may discover, as others here have, myself included, the delights of the spinning pivot.

This phenomenon arises when trying to correct horizontal blade-play.

There is no sweet spot for this correction. Overtightening can occur and lead inadvertently to deformation of the D-shaped pivot hole in the FRN. This shape is meant to keep the pivot screw’s D-shaped post from spinning.

Because the pivot screw has a screw head on only one side, it’s next to impossible to back the screw out when the FRN has been deformed.

A two-headed sex-screw would provide an easier return from overtightening and eliminate the need to rely on deformable FRN to keep the pivot from spinning.
So basically, if I don't overtighten the pivot, no problem will occur.
I can live with a little flex on a knife which is not for hard use, this would be a version of SAK from my favourite brand :D
Anyway, this could be solved also: you just need a pivot of the same diameter with a two-headed screw. Either find one from Spyderco directly (if there's a similar knife with same diameter), or locally.
This is not something I'm worried about.
Urban gets a green light for me :D

User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 4444
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: Dragonfly 2 vs Urban

Postby Wartstein » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:53 am

Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:35 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:31 pm
Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:27 pm
pantagana23 wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:30 am

......
Yes, but while it is mandatory to have on the Urban (as a "stop"), not so much on the Chap, cause the latter has an internal stop pin? So theoretically one could grind the "kick" away a bit on a Chap?
The stop pin keeps the blade from over rotating in the other direction, prevents blade play, and redirects forces. The kick is there to keep the blade from going too far down in the handle and dulling the blade.
Doc, I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that the internal stop pin of the Chaparral technically would work in "both directions" (blade opened and closed) and by that making a kick not mandatory anymore (but offering the opportunity to design a backlock knife with an edge all the way back to the handle) - ?
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

User avatar
Doc Dan
Member
Posts: 8178
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.

Re: Dragonfly 2 vs Urban

Postby Doc Dan » Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:52 am

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:53 am
Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:35 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:31 pm
Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:27 pm

......
Yes, but while it is mandatory to have on the Urban (as a "stop"), not so much on the Chap, cause the latter has an internal stop pin? So theoretically one could grind the "kick" away a bit on a Chap?
The stop pin keeps the blade from over rotating in the other direction, prevents blade play, and redirects forces. The kick is there to keep the blade from going too far down in the handle and dulling the blade.
Doc, I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that the internal stop pin of the Chaparral technically would work in "both directions" (blade opened and closed) and by that making a kick not mandatory anymore (but offering the opportunity to design a backlock knife with an edge all the way back to the handle) - ?
It’s possible, but it still has a kick. The kick acts as a small finger guard, sort of, besides keeping the blade off the lock bar. It’s been too long since I’ve had mine apart, however.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

"Until we meet again, may the good Lord take a liking to you."
(Roy Rogers)


NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050

User avatar
wrdwrght
Member
Posts: 2952
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:35 am
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Dragonfly 2 vs Urban

Postby wrdwrght » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:08 am

pantagana23 wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:05 am
wrdwrght wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:10 pm

You may discover, as others here have, myself included, the delights of the spinning pivot.

This phenomenon arises when trying to correct horizontal blade-play.

There is no sweet spot for this correction. Overtightening can occur and lead inadvertently to deformation of the D-shaped pivot hole in the FRN. This shape is meant to keep the pivot screw’s D-shaped post from spinning.

Because the pivot screw has a screw head on only one side, it’s next to impossible to back the screw out when the FRN has been deformed.

A two-headed sex-screw would provide an easier return from overtightening and eliminate the need to rely on deformable FRN to keep the pivot from spinning.
So basically, if I don't overtighten the pivot, no problem will occur.
I can live with a little flex on a knife which is not for hard use, this would be a version of SAK from my favourite brand :D
Anyway, this could be solved also: you just need a pivot of the same diameter with a two-headed screw. Either find one from Spyderco directly (if there's a similar knife with same diameter), or locally.
This is not something I'm worried about.
Urban gets a green light for me :D
Let’s just say I had this problem with my first Urban, now I have three in different steels (that’s what my/your can-do attitude leads to ;)).

My extended comments are really meant to goose some needed CQI.
Marc <— a mere data-point

RECENT ARRIVAL: Maxamet PM2. ON RADAR: Lil’ Native slipjoint; Siren; SPY27 Para3; S45V PM2 sprint; Rex45 Native Chief sprint. IN DREAMS: 4V Military2 stop-lock; 52100 Native Chief; Slysz Swayback.

User avatar
pantagana23
Member
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:52 am
Location: Croatia

Re: Dragonfly 2 vs Urban

Postby pantagana23 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:15 pm

wrdwrght wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:08 am

Let’s just say I had this problem with my first Urban, now I have three in different steels (that’s what my/your can-do attitude leads to ;)).

My extended comments are really meant to goose some needed CQI.
I don't think this will happen overnight. As I recall, DF2 has this issue also in FRN. This is an issue with the rigidity of FRN, an imo can be solved with either using more rigid material than frn (unlikely) or double screw.
Not sure how FRCP compares with FRN in terms of rigidity.

User avatar
pantagana23
Member
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:52 am
Location: Croatia

Re: Dragonfly 2 vs Urban

Postby pantagana23 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:27 pm

Doc Dan wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:52 am
It’s possible, but it still has a kick. The kick acts as a small finger guard, sort of, besides keeping the blade off the lock bar. It’s been too long since I’ve had mine apart, however.
Doc, if you have both Urban and Lil Native BL, could you take a couple of pics side by side (length, height, thickness) if it doesn't present a problem for you.

Thanks in advance.

User avatar
Cambertree
Member
Posts: 669
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:48 am
Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: Dragonfly 2 vs Urban

Postby Cambertree » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:43 pm

pantagana23 wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:15 pm
One question for the recent owners of Urban: does the blade have a half stop (like Pingo)? I remember some videos I was watching previously mentioning that the mid stop is at 90% closed, some at 50% closed. I can only assume that the mid stop position was changed from 90 to 50% in later production.
Yes it has the half stop (more like a 'half-pause' than a traditional half stop) at 90 degrees.

N690Co is just basically Bohler's version of VG10 - perhaps slightly improved, like Aichi's ZA-18.

I love the Dragonfly. I have the most Dragonflies of any Spydie model, and if you rolled them all in together, it would be both my most carried and most used model.

But I think I like the Urban a little bit better. It's just as minimally discreet, and able to do work out of all proportion to it's size, like the Dragonfly, but it's just a bit stouter in the blade, and the way it sits in the hand.

I think the fit and finish shortcomings in the AEB-L Urban certainly need to be addressed, but in truth, it took me about 15 minutes with some sandpaper and a stone to fix them - not including sharpening.

I love the extreme sharpness and toughness of the AEB-L Urban so much, I'm thinking of buying a backup - something I have never considered before.

If you are ok with sharpening, I highly recommend it. If I had to choose only one Urban though, it would be the K390 version.

And if you don't like the dirt colour, it's easy to change. This is the result of a synthetic blue dye:

Image

User avatar
Doc Dan
Member
Posts: 8178
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.

Re: Dragonfly 2 vs Urban

Postby Doc Dan » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:40 pm

pantagana23 wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:27 pm
Doc Dan wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:52 am
It’s possible, but it still has a kick. The kick acts as a small finger guard, sort of, besides keeping the blade off the lock bar. It’s been too long since I’ve had mine apart, however.
Doc, if you have both Urban and Lil Native BL, could you take a couple of pics side by side (length, height, thickness) if it doesn't present a problem for you.

Thanks in advance.
Sure, I’ll be glad to do that.


Imagehow do i upload images to the forum


Image


Image
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

"Until we meet again, may the good Lord take a liking to you."
(Roy Rogers)


NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050

User avatar
pantagana23
Member
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:52 am
Location: Croatia

Re: Dragonfly 2 vs Urban

Postby pantagana23 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:38 pm

Thank you Doc.
Well, that's it, Urban is ordered :)
When the factory decides to put jimping and a wire clip on Lil' Native BL, that's next :D

User avatar
thewoodpecker
Member
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:58 pm

Re: Dragonfly 2 vs Urban

Postby thewoodpecker » Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:50 pm

Better late than never but I'll put a vote in for the Urban. :D
Spyderco Caly 3.5 Super Blue User

User avatar
pantagana23
Member
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:52 am
Location: Croatia

Urban fake?

Postby pantagana23 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:49 am

So I finally received my Urban today, which I bought over eBay from "ericf101501". 100% rating for this seller over the years, so had no issue ordering.

Looking at it, the first thing that scraped my eyes like a 100 grit sandpaper was the dirt in the jimping, which I cleaned, and then started looking suspiciously at deformation on lower jimping.

"Was this used?" was my first thought.

Image

Image

Then I continued inspecting. Looking at Maniago - Italy stamp, it just doesn't look right, too cramped, too tight.
I looked online for a few photos, and none are the same?
Ok, now please tell me, is this a fake, or a used, or maybe badly storaged product?
_________________________

EDIT: Just found more pics of Urban, it looks like some have letters with dash close (also with AEB-L ver).

It looks like I just got one that was storaged in mud and kicked around.

Looking at different factories QC, I think I'm sticking with Golden models only in the future.

Image

Image

User avatar
bbturbodad
Member
Posts: 498
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Dragonfly 2 vs Urban

Postby bbturbodad » Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:20 pm

I never looked that closely at the jimping so I took a look at the 3 of mine, including a still NIB K390 and took a few pics for you to compare to yours. FWIW I think yours is legit.

...and looks like I need to hit my backup with some oil.

Unused K390 - the jimping looks darker in person
Image

Used K390 - You can see skin and other debris from use
Image

Used AEB-L
Image
-Turbo


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 79bolo, Bing [Bot], FreeGolf, Google [Bot], MSN [Bot], rcwill98, spambait11, The Meat man and 61 guests