P’kal vs. Yojimbo 2

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jam393
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P’kal vs. Yojimbo 2

Postby jam393 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:42 pm

I have been considering the Yojimbo 2 or P’kal for a defensive knife. I would appreciate any thoughts on these knives and your preference. Thanks!

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Re: P’kal vs. Yojimbo 2

Postby wirelessjunkie » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:13 pm

If you're having to ask this question then you should probably be looking for something other than a knife to defend yourself with. If a knife is your preference then you need to learn a martial art that focuses on blade use, and then after some more experience you will know exactly which of the two blades will work best for your defensive intentions.

On a practical scale the Yo2 is more EDC friendly between the two.

jam393
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Re: P’kal vs. Yojimbo 2

Postby jam393 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:31 pm

I should have been more clear in my earlier post. I am interested in both the p’kal and Yojimbo 2 for a defensive knife when I don’t conceal carry. I am a former LEO and now conduct investigations for an insurance company. My job takes me into dangerous areas and I wanted a blade that was high quality and reliable. I enjoy these forums and wanted to get some facts on both knives. The Yojimbo 2 looks more practical for carry, but the P’kal trips my trigger as well with the Emerson Wave. Thanks

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Re: P’kal vs. Yojimbo 2

Postby wirelessjunkie » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:16 am

In that case Id say get whichever of the two you feel suits your trained instinctive fighting style with a knife the best. Reason I say this is (and I find it odd you'd be asking MA advice on a knife forum) they're different knives. The PKal deploys fastest due to the posts on the spine that act like an Emerson opener, but puts you in reverse grip right off the bat because its designed to be used like this. If you arent comfortable defending yourself quickly in reverse grip then you might prefer the Yojimbo, but you'll need to train how you're gonna open it quickly. Both knives are solid, get whichever one you will have to think the least about using while under stress.

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Re: P’kal vs. Yojimbo 2

Postby chuck_roxas45 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:01 am

The two knives are designed for different styles of fighting. The Yo2 was designed with Michael Janich's Martial Blade Concept. The p'kal was designed for a Reverse Grip Edge In style. If you are comfortable with any of those styles, choose accordingly.

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sal
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Re: P’kal vs. Yojimbo 2

Postby sal » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:16 am

Hi Jam,

Welcome to our forum, and thanx for your service.

As Chuck mentioned, different styles. I would recommend some training with either. Both are well made, reliable and effective.

sal

jam393
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Re: P’kal vs. Yojimbo 2

Postby jam393 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:44 am

Thanks! I enjoy the conversations about knives, gun, whatever. Thanks for taking time to reply. I think the Yojimbo is more up my alley.

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Re: P’kal vs. Yojimbo 2

Postby ThePeacent » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:10 pm

maybe the best of both world would be the Ronin 2...

- fastest deployment of all, being a fixed blade
- strongest and sturdiest, absent lock and pivot
- saber grip, hammer grip, ice pick grip, whatever you prefer
- and has a longer cutting edge than both folders, which is key in a defensive scenario

just a thought!

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Re: P’kal vs. Yojimbo 2

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:48 pm

I don't carry knives for self defense use, but if I did my first choice is a fixed blade, second choice is a waved folder, third choice is a regular folder. For that reason I'd vote Pikal out of your two choices, but I would also consider fixed versions of both models.

I've owned both and I can tell you that if you plan to use either knife for utility purposes the Yojimbo will work better. Some people think using your SD knife for utility is good so it builds up muscle memory drawing it every day etc., others feel you should carry a dedicated SD knife and a dedicated utility knife so the SD one is always freshly sharpened. Just something else to think about.

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Re: P’kal vs. Yojimbo 2

Postby dogrunner » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:49 pm

I can't argue with TP's reasoning, but I also really like the Reverse as a fixed blade option, which might not be available for long (disco'd). If you like reverse grip style, this one is hard to beat for all the reasons TP noted. Carries very easily too.
For folders, both of the ones in question are first-rate. I have both. As a non-LEO, the Yo2 is easier to justify having on me because it is a better EDC style. For defensive applications, get whatever suits your training best.

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Re: P’kal vs. Yojimbo 2

Postby ZrowsN1s » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:14 pm

jam393 wrote:I should have been more clear in my earlier post. I am interested in both the p’kal and Yojimbo 2 for a defensive knife when I don’t conceal carry. I am a former LEO and now conduct investigations for an insurance company. My job takes me into dangerous areas and I wanted a blade that was high quality and reliable. I enjoy these forums and wanted to get some facts on both knives. The Yojimbo 2 looks more practical for carry, but the P’kal trips my trigger as well with the Emerson Wave. Thanks
Hi jam393, welcome to the forum. I own both the Yojimbo and the P'kal and I'm a big fan of both knives. I usually carry the Yojimbo clipless in the "coin pocket" of my jeans. I find I can reach in and deploy it easily carrying it like this and I prefer to carry the Yojimbo concealed. Clipped to the pocket in tip up carry, the Yo2 handle sticks out a little farther than I like, and in tip down carry it is very wide at the top, and people can see you have a big knife. What I like about the Yo2 is the ergonomics of the handle and blade as well as the blade geometry itself. It feels very good in hand. The blade is designed so you can place your thumb on the spine of the blade, this gives you a lot of control and power to your cuts, the high hollow ground wharncliffe shape also cuts and penetrates like no ones business. The large choil insures a solid grip as well. When I carry concealed I carry the Yojimbo 2.

Now on days when I am carrying my self defense knife clipped to my pocket, I prefer to carry the P'kal for a few reasons. The wire clip and handle shape are very low key and inconspicuous. Because of the wave feature, deployment of the P'kal is one beat faster than other knives, and speed is important in self defense. The reverse handle takes a little getting used to, it's definitely not a utility knife (unlike the Yo2 which doubles very well as a utility knife), but when used in the reverse edge in grip the handle makes perfect sense, it's designed to do one thing, and do it well. The P'kal is a stabber, it goes in and out with little resistance (I like to test my SD knives on rolls of paper towels), the slight curve of the blade follows the same natural arch as your hand does when stabbing.

The self defense styles for each knife are different, I would say on the surface the basic P'kal style requires less practice to get someone up and running, and it relies on repeated hammer fist type stabbing motions (I'm really over simplifying for brevity, you should check out both Craig Douglas's and Michael Janich's videos). Janich's style focuses more on "mobility kills" cutting muscles to disable limbs (again really oversimplifying).

Here's a P'kal video from the designer.
https://youtu.be/6Sk7B-XXCJY (Sorry you have to watch on youtube.com, they disabled embedding on this video)
Here's another one from Douglas's Shivworks. Even though the basic technique can be learned in a minute, the style goes pretty deep into ju jitsu and grappling https://youtu.be/jxkjHF5TAuc

Here's a Yojimbo 2 video from the designer. (embedding works on this one :D the action starts at 2:19 in )
https://youtu.be/MF6lzHdJqpk?t=2m19s

....Here's another one on the design of the knife https://youtu.be/1ddOdONCCqU "The Evolution of the Yojimbo 2"
There's a ton of videos as well as the MBC website, definitely worth watching and studying.

So to summarize a little, for speed of deployment and ease of use, I would give the edge to the P'kal... But if you are like me and prefer to carry completely concealed, the advantages of the P'kal disappear when you put it IN the pocket instead of clipped to the pocket. This and the superior ergonomics, utility, and blade geometry is why 90% of the time I carry the Yojimbo 2 over the P'kal. Hope that helps!

*I forgot to mention the locks on both of the knives, they are different, but both are also very solid and reliable. I would say the CBBL is the stronger of the 2, but I have zero complaints about the compression lock. Anyways though it might be worth mentioning.
Carrying 3 knives is perfectly normal :D
-Matt

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Re: P’kal vs. Yojimbo 2

Postby Michael Janich » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:46 am

You could also "split the difference" and go with something like the Endura with an Emerson Opener. It offers the deployment advantages of the Wave without the commitment to reverse-edge methods. The down side is that trainers are no longer made for it.

Stay safe,

Mike

P.S. Thanks for sharing my "take" on knife tactics with the MBC videos.

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Re: P’kal vs. Yojimbo 2

Postby ThePeacent » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:54 am

Gotta agree with Mr.Janich here...the Endura Emerson is a very balanced folder for all categories, from normal EDC use, to defensive scenarios. Not as fragile as the FFGs, waved, not complicated or exotic blade shape, balanced weight, ergonomic for most hands...

compared to the other SD oriented Spydercos (Matriarch, Karahawk, ATR, Szabo...) it seems the less specialised, the most affordable and a very nice option for all things a knife can be used for

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Re: P’kal vs. Yojimbo 2

Postby ZrowsN1s » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:08 am

Michael Janich wrote:You could also "split the difference" and go with something like the Endura with an Emerson Opener. It offers the deployment advantages of the Wave without the commitment to reverse-edge methods. The down side is that trainers are no longer made for it.

Stay safe,

Mike

P.S. Thanks for sharing my "take" on knife tactics with the MBC videos.
Like many others on the forum here I've put some thought and time into choosing the SD knives I carry and how I carry them. I would never profess to be anything more than mildly competent at self defense but I do practice. I also have a modest collection of SD knives from a few different companies that I've carried over the years, so I like adding my two cents into these conversations... but by a wide margin you and Craig are much better at explaining things than I am. I figured the videos would speak for themselves in case I got it too wrong :o
Carrying 3 knives is perfectly normal :D
-Matt

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Re: P’kal vs. Yojimbo 2

Postby Evil D » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:11 am

Thought I'd put my 2 cents worth in this topic, since for the first time in my life I've been considering a knife for self defense. I typically carry a gun, but I'm not permitted to for the job I do. I can however get away with carrying a knife as long as it's well concealed. I typically carry a folder, and I've often carried a Yojimbo 2 for this reason. So out of the two it would get my vote but honestly that's more of a taste preference than suggesting that it's the better of the two for self defense.

That said, I've lately decided that I need a fixed blade for this purpose if I'm ever going to use a knife successfully to defend myself. Unless you seriously put in the time and training and are able to deploy a folder in the heat of an attack, it's little more than a talisman in your pocket. I don't believe I could draw my folder and deploy it quick enough for it to make a difference. Or at the very least, fine motor skills are lost in moments like this so having a fixed blade means one less motion to work out during an attack.

So, I've been working on a pocket sheath for a fixed blade. Currently I'm carrying a Street Beat, but the Ronin 2 would be excellent for this as well. When I'm in a shady part of town or even in the presence of an aggressive dog, my hand is in my pocket on the handle of the knife, and all I need to do is push the sheath off with my thumb and my hand is already in place on the grip of an open knife ready to be used. It's a much faster and more easily repeatable deployment method than any folder, possibly even faster than a person who does have training with their folder. Plus you have the added peace of mind in knowing there isn't any lock to fail and fold on your fingers, however unlikely that may be.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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Re: P’kal vs. Yojimbo 2

Postby ThePeacent » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:08 am

Evil D wrote:
That said, I've lately decided that I need a fixed blade for this purpose if I'm ever going to use a knife successfully to defend myself. Unless you seriously put in the time and training and are able to deploy a folder in the heat of an attack, it's little more than a talisman in your pocket. I don't believe I could draw my folder and deploy it quick enough for it to make a difference. Or at the very least, fine motor skills are lost in moments like this so having a fixed blade means one less motion to work out during an attack.
.
Truth is I don't have the Street Beat but it is almost universally agreed that a fixed blade is the most logical and reliable option for a SD edged tool.
I carry my Aqua Salt with that secondary purpose in mind, and the sheath is so close to the body, doesn't print and I can have the blade point up (handle closer to the ground) thanks to its excellent retention, what allows an even faster and discreet unsheathing, not even needing to raise the elbow or pull up your shirt/clothes

Image

in that regard Kydex and other hard plastics are a Godsend, and the ability to carry it IWB, OWB, at 3:00, 11:00 or whatever other place in your belt adds a lot to its effective concealment, deployment and non-interference with your other gear or clothes

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Re: P’kal vs. Yojimbo 2

Postby ZrowsN1s » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:30 pm

When I lived in a place where it was allowed and it was cold enough to wear a coat I used to conceal carry a dagger in a shoulder holster a lot like this one.
.jpg
Fix blades are a good choice if it's allowed where you're at. Though I think folders are a little easier to conceal (tossing a folder in a pocket to carry as opposed to finding a sheath and harness to hold a fixed-blade secure and concealed).
Carrying 3 knives is perfectly normal :D
-Matt

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Re: P’kal vs. Yojimbo 2

Postby Bloke » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:54 pm

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jam393
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Re: P’kal vs. Yojimbo 2

Postby jam393 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:37 pm

Thanks everyone for the great advice. I appreciate your time and help. I am going to take a look at the Ronin 2 as well.


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