Why linerless?

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Evil D
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Evil D » Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:40 pm

soc_monki wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:18 pm


Maybe I'll take my Manix 2 LW and trim some stuff in the yard...

All you need to know right here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=68682
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby ZrowsN1s » Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:19 pm

I like linerless for having less dirt and rust to clean out of liners. For weight, for looks.

As far as what you lose, I find I rarely have need for a knife that can endure the kind of abuse that liners help with. I don't pry with my knives, I don't chop, I cut.

It's not to say hard use knives don't have their place. My self defense knives have liners. My 'heavy duty' knives have liners. I keep an Emerson cqc15 in my car for emergencies, it's built like a tank, titanium liners, and a blade steel that is selected for and heat treated for toughness.

My SHTF knives have liners, but 99.9% of the time I don't need that, and linerless is more appealing. Although on the really small knives like the ladybug manbug dfly, sometimes I wish they had liners.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby soc_monki » Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:10 pm

Evil D wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:40 pm
soc_monki wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:18 pm


Maybe I'll take my Manix 2 LW and trim some stuff in the yard...

All you need to know right here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=68682
Well now... I haven't taken any branches that big out, but now you have me wanting to go do it! However I think my Manix LW bd1 wouldn't fare as well as your s110v!

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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Pelagic » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:33 pm

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:44 am
I can definitely see a place for linerless folders, and I do have one or two that are like that. However, for my own personal sense of safety and comfort when it comes to a pocket knife.....I do like to see stainless steel liners in there. Some people are fine with brass liners but I prefer the liners to be made of stain-resistant steel if possible. It gives that extra layer of protection from accidental cuts or abrasion, and, I like the extra weight to it, it feels better.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Ez556 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:58 am

Funny, I personally think that visible liners, especially somewhat thick ones, are ugly. I wish the Manix 2 had nested liners like the PM2 for this reason. And because of this fact, linerless models are fine by me. Goes to show different people like different things.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby apollo » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:58 pm

Linerless knives have there good things but i find not every design should be linerless.

All the manixes and chinooks should keep there liners those designs are not made to be LW.
That is why de new lockback manix failed. If you design a knife to be bomb proof ( like the original manixes )
Then they should have there weight if not you will fail to reach the mental barrier of strenght.
Indeed that new lockback manix will be strong but it wil just not feel that way.

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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Wartstein » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:05 pm

One thing linerless probably means in many cases: Bye bye custom scales... (which does not really bother me)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Why linerless?

Postby archangel » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:09 pm

As soon as the Battlestation has arrived, I'll post another pic of my glorious linered lineup (pun intended). ;)
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Pelagic » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:37 pm

apollo wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:58 pm
Linerless knives have there good things but i find not every design should be linerless.
Exactly. There's a ton of lightweight options as is.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Evil D » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:22 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:05 pm
One thing linerless probably means in many cases: Bye bye custom scales... (which does not really bother me)

Eh, if they can machine out the inside for nested liners, there's no reason they can't make a solid slab just as easily. If anything there may be some issues with the clip mounts but there are some talented people making scales and I know of at least one custom clip mount on a Military that uses the same mounts as the Manix 2 back lock so it's doable.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Wartstein » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:51 pm

Evil D wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:22 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:05 pm
One thing linerless probably means in many cases: Bye bye custom scales... (which does not really bother me)

Eh, if they can machine out the inside for nested liners, there's no reason they can't make a solid slab just as easily. If anything there may be some issues with the clip mounts but there are some talented people making scales and I know of at least one custom clip mount on a Military that uses the same mounts as the Manix 2 back lock so it's doable.

You are right of course. I have a wooden scale Millie myself, and as we all know this model has not really full liners.

What I had in mind (but did not point out) were linerless FRN / FRCP models. I figure custom scales for let's say a Para 3 lw or Native lw in a comparable quality and weight are hard to make.. Think of the very thought through inside of their FRN scales or the time it took Spyderco to develop such that even work with a comp. lock...

What do you think?
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Baron Mind » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:52 pm

Interesting discussion. Ultimately I think both are good. If I could only choose one I'd probably go with liners. I just like the feel of them in hand better. Although the improved balance is a nice feature of going linerless.

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Re: Why linerless?

Postby spyderwolf » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:48 am

You can make a good case for or against liners.It comes down to what each prefers,and it's great Spyderco caters to al tastes.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Evil D » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:33 am

Wartstein wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:51 pm
Evil D wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:22 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:05 pm
One thing linerless probably means in many cases: Bye bye custom scales... (which does not really bother me)

Eh, if they can machine out the inside for nested liners, there's no reason they can't make a solid slab just as easily. If anything there may be some issues with the clip mounts but there are some talented people making scales and I know of at least one custom clip mount on a Military that uses the same mounts as the Manix 2 back lock so it's doable.

You are right of course. I have a wooden scale Millie myself, and as we all know this model has not really full liners.

What I had in mind (but did not point out) were linerless FRN / FRCP models. I figure custom scales for let's say a Para 3 lw or Native lw in a comparable quality and weight are hard to make.. Think of the very thought through inside of their FRN scales or the time it took Spyderco to develop such that even work with a comp. lock...

What do you think?

I'm almost certain someone made some G10 scales for a Dragonfly but I couldn't find the thread. I've had a few of the newer two piece FRN lightweights taken apart and there is certainly a lot going on underneath. It would take someone with very good CNC knowledge to make but I wouldn't rule it out. They'd just need to either copy the inside mold shape of the FRN or design their own two piece system where the scales mate together male/female like for rigidity.
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Wartstein
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Wartstein » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:24 am

Evil D wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:33 am
Wartstein wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:51 pm
Evil D wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:22 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:05 pm
.....
.....

You are right of course. I have a wooden scale Millie myself, and as we all know this model has not really full liners.

What I had in mind (but did not point out) were linerless FRN / FRCP models. I figure custom scales for let's say a Para 3 lw or Native lw in a comparable quality and weight are hard to make.. Think of the very thought through inside of their FRN scales or the time it took Spyderco to develop such that even work with a comp. lock...

What do you think?

I'm almost certain someone made some G10 scales for a Dragonfly but I couldn't find the thread. I've had a few of the newer two piece FRN lightweights taken apart and there is certainly a lot going on underneath. It would take someone with very good CNC knowledge to make but I wouldn't rule it out. They'd just need to either copy the inside mold shape of the FRN or design their own two piece system where the scales mate together male/female like for rigidity.

That´s about what I thought. Providing custom scales for lets say the Para 3 LW takes a lot more than "just" making two slabs of whatever material and maybe the inside cutouts for nested liners (don´t get me wrong, I am not saying that this is easy to do). Especially if one wanted to match the quality, tolerances, and weight Spydercos FRN linerless handles offer...
So: The trend towards linerless FRN - models will probably be a challenge for most costum scale makers (though there´ll always be enough linered and/ or G10 models to keep them in business... ;) )
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Evil D » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:46 am

Wartstein wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:24 am


From your original post I was imagining linerless knives like the Manix back lock where the construction is already G10. Definitely will be harder to do scales on a FRN model.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Wartstein » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:54 am

Evil D wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:46 am
Wartstein wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:24 am


From your original post I was imagining linerless knives like the Manix back lock where the construction is already G10. Definitely will be harder to do scales on a FRN model.

Yep. as said, I did not make clear what I meant exactly in my op. My bad... :(
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Why linerless?

Postby dreadpirate » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:05 am

I bought a Native 5 in G10 and it was advertised as having liners but I got shipped the linerless version. At first I was disappointed, but after some use, I will have to agree with those that say liners are not required and add weight. I will also say I like the proud liners on the Manix 2 (i.e. the nubs that stick out). The Manix 2 is already a heavy knife so in that case who cares.

Definitely happy with my linerless Native 5 in G10.


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