Why linerless?

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vivi
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby vivi » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:10 pm

Yeah rust is another. Most knives don't have rust proof liners, and few of the DLC offerings have coated liners as well like the Manix XL.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby chuck_roxas45 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:49 pm

archangel wrote:....

So in my opinion it‘s not a winning argument.

...
Nobody is trying to win an argument against you. You asked a question about others' preference and it's been answered numerous times. You are free to disagree but you're probably going to have a hard time convincing them(well...us).

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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Doc Dan » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:33 am

Some knives that are linerless have a lot of flex in them and are of little use when using them hard. However, Spyderco designs (and later Cold Steel designs, but not older ones) overcome this fault with better designs and materials.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby spyderwolf » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:04 am

I like liners in my knives,but its just a matter of preference.You like what you like,but please dont tell me that the weight of a pair skeletonized liners makes a real diference.Same for the price.A linerless Delica or Endura will probably be 6$ cheaper.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby vivi » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:24 am

spyderwolf wrote:dont tell me that the weight of a pair skeletonized liners makes a real diference.
Why not? To some of us it does. We all have our preferences.

.5 - 1oz of weight saved matters more than the difference in edge holding between S30V and CTS204P for example.

I carry Spydercos while doing ultralight hiking, running, rock climbing, doing ultralight bike tours where I use an 18lb carbon fiber bike and ~8lbs of gear to cross the country, etc. Weights a pretty big deal to me.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Evil D » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:45 am

spyderwolf wrote:I like liners in my knives,but its just a matter of preference.You like what you like,but please dont tell me that the weight of a pair skeletonized liners makes a real diference.Same for the price.A linerless Delica or Endura will probably be 6$ cheaper.
It just depends on how much weight matters to you. The difference between an Endura and a Pacific is .6oz, which may not be a lot but if you're hiking it all adds up. More than total weight that also effects the balance of the knife, which again you either care about or you don't.

I don't place a lot of priority on weight, but I definitely don't want a 6+oz knife in my pocket and the difference between 4oz and 3oz is absolutely noticeable. For years I struggled with choosing a favorite between the Para 2 and the Manix 2, and lighter weight was always one of the better aspects of the Para 2.

The idea that a knife is weaker without liners is nonsense really. If you look at the Manix 2 back lock, the G10 is thicker than you see on most knifes. I think you all would be shocked at how tough a slab of G10 is when beat on. I've seen guys hammer this stuff into a log like a railroad spike. At the very least it's a good idea to put some very small liners around the pivot to prevent the pivot hole from elongating with hard use, but that's a worst case scenario otherwise you'd see it more in the Salt knives, where FRN is far less rigid than G10.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby xceptnl » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:45 am

I do want to add to my thoughts from my earlier post. I do not need every knife I own to be sub 2oz. I like the weight and heft on some designs, however it is very subjective. I hold a given knife in my hand and think, "hmmm, this seems perfect". Still others though i love as they are but wouldn't mind trying them in a lighter weight without liners. The Delica 4 is a terrific knife, but I have also enjoyed carrying the D3 with its barrel clip and linerless design.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby spyderwolf » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:13 am

Evil D wrote:
spyderwolf wrote:I like liners in my knives,but its just a matter of preference.You like what you like,but please dont tell me that the weight of a pair skeletonized liners makes a real diference.Same for the price.A linerless Delica or Endura will probably be 6$ cheaper.
It just depends on how much weight matters to you. The difference between an Endura and a Pacific is .6oz, which may not be a lot but if you're hiking it all adds up. More than total weight that also effects the balance of the knife, which again you either care about or you don't.

I don't place a lot of priority on weight, but I definitely don't want a 6+oz knife in my pocket and the difference between 4oz and 3oz is absolutely noticeable. For years I struggled with choosing a favorite between the Para 2 and the Manix 2, and lighter weight was always one of the better aspects of the Para 2.

The idea that a knife is weaker without liners is nonsense really. If you look at the Manix 2 back lock, the G10 is thicker than you see on most knifes. I think you all would be shocked at how tough a slab of G10 is when beat on. I've seen guys hammer this stuff into a log like a railroad spike. At the very least it's a good idea to put some very small liners around the pivot to prevent the pivot hole from elongating with hard use, but that's a worst case scenario otherwise you'd see it more in the Salt knives, where FRN is far less rigid than G10.
Like i've said,to each his own.I still think a Snickers bar is not that heavy ;)
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Evil D » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:19 am

spyderwolf wrote: Like i've said,to each his own.I still think a Snickers bar is not that heavy ;)

Well regardless of weight the biggest reason I like linerless is the modding factor. There are slews of knives I'd own if I could tweak the handle shape without getting into the liners.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby carrot » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:19 am

Evil D wrote:
spyderwolf wrote: Like i've said,to each his own.I still think a Snickers bar is not that heavy ;)

Well regardless of weight the biggest reason I like linerless is the modding factor. There are slews of knives I'd own if I could tweak the handle shape without getting into the liners.
Conversely, we've seen a ton of cool replacement scales for the Delica, Paramilitary 2, and Manix, because they DO have liners. :confused: But I agree. I would love to be able to grind off a ton of handle from the Para 2 and Para 3, if only to have a different form factor amongst my multiple Paras.

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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Spydergirl88 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:26 am

carrot wrote:
Evil D wrote:
spyderwolf wrote: Like i've said,to each his own.I still think a Snickers bar is not that heavy ;)

Well regardless of weight the biggest reason I like linerless is the modding factor. There are slews of knives I'd own if I could tweak the handle shape without getting into the liners.
Conversely, we've seen a ton of cool replacement scales for the Delica, Paramilitary 2, and Manix, because they DO have liners. :confused: But I agree. I would love to be able to grind off a ton of handle from the Para 2 and Para 3, if only to have a different form factor amongst my multiple Paras.
i would imagine it's actually easier to make custom scales for linerless knives compared to knives with nested liners like pm2 bc you wouldn't have to mill the scales for liners to fit.

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Re: Why linerless?

Postby thewoodpecker » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:27 am

Spydergirl88 wrote:
carrot wrote:
Evil D wrote:
spyderwolf wrote: Like i've said,to each his own.I still think a Snickers bar is not that heavy ;)

Well regardless of weight the biggest reason I like linerless is the modding factor. There are slews of knives I'd own if I could tweak the handle shape without getting into the liners.
Conversely, we've seen a ton of cool replacement scales for the Delica, Paramilitary 2, and Manix, because they DO have liners. :confused: But I agree. I would love to be able to grind off a ton of handle from the Para 2 and Para 3, if only to have a different form factor amongst my multiple Paras.
i would imagine it's actually easier to make custom scales for linerless knives compared to knives with nested liners like pm2 bc you wouldn't have to mill the scales for liners to fit.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Evil D » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:44 am

carrot wrote:
Evil D wrote:
spyderwolf wrote: Like i've said,to each his own.I still think a Snickers bar is not that heavy ;)

Well regardless of weight the biggest reason I like linerless is the modding factor. There are slews of knives I'd own if I could tweak the handle shape without getting into the liners.
Conversely, we've seen a ton of cool replacement scales for the Delica, Paramilitary 2, and Manix, because they DO have liners. :confused: But I agree. I would love to be able to grind off a ton of handle from the Para 2 and Para 3, if only to have a different form factor amongst my multiple Paras.

Replacing the scales is small potatoes. I'm talking about removing finger grooves and adding choils. Custom scales still won't let me do that if the nested liners follow the shape of the scale.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby tonijedi » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:09 pm

Yesterday I handled a Manix LW at a knife shop and man... what a delight to have such a big knife and so lightweight. Same feeling for the Pacific Salt, when I handled it for the first time I loved it. I'm a small folders guy, as for my uses 3in blade are perfect and while camping and hiking I usually prefer a fixed blade, but the feeling of those lightweight knives is just amazing.

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Re: Why linerless?

Postby The Deacon » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:34 pm

archangel wrote:Many of you seem to prefer linerless designs. Why?

I for my part like the looks of a handle sheet on top of a visible liner. It just looks right when the blade is parked between steel liners.
I prefer midlock knives, don't use a clip, and don't hold my knives in a death grip. So, for me, unless the handle is going to feature bolsters, liners serve no useful functions and omitting them allows for a thinner, lighter knife.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby archangel » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:53 pm

Tastes are so different. Every time when I handled my Manix LW I felt it was too light for such a rather large and wide knife. How delighted I was when I replaced it with the KC exclusive Cru-Wear version. :)

Oh, and again: the P4 proves that any knife with liners can still be thin!
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby El Gato » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:11 pm

archangel wrote:Tastes are so different. Every time when I handled my Manix LW I felt it was too light for such a rather large and wide knife. How delighted I was when I replaced it with the KC exclusive Cru-Wear version. :)

Oh, and again: the P4 proves that any knife with liners can still be thin!
+1 here.
This has been my experience as well, and why I am looking forward to the Manix 2 CPM M-4, BladeHQ Exclusive.
I can only wish that the 2018 :spyder: catalog will feature the Manix 2 in linered G-10 with a Maxamet blade, as an option to the LW version.

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Re: Why linerless?

Postby archangel » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:35 pm

El Gato wrote:
archangel wrote:Tastes are so different. Every time when I handled my Manix LW I felt it was too light for such a rather large and wide knife. How delighted I was when I replaced it with the KC exclusive Cru-Wear version. :)

Oh, and again: the P4 proves that any knife with liners can still be thin!
+1 here.
This has been my experience as well, and why I am looking forward to the Manix 2 CPM M-4, BladeHQ Exclusive.
I can only wish that the 2018 :spyder: catalog will feature the Manix 2 in linered G-10 with a Maxamet blade, as an option to the LW version.

Dave
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby El Gato » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:21 pm

archangel wrote:
El Gato wrote:
archangel wrote:Tastes are so different. Every time when I handled my Manix LW I felt it was too light for such a rather large and wide knife. How delighted I was when I replaced it with the KC exclusive Cru-Wear version. :)

Oh, and again: the P4 proves that any knife with liners can still be thin!
+1 here.
This has been my experience as well, and why I am looking forward to the Manix 2 CPM M-4, BladeHQ Exclusive.
I can only wish that the 2018 :spyder: catalog will feature the Manix 2 in linered G-10 with a Maxamet blade, as an option to the LW version.

Dave
At least one other who‘s as nuts as I am. :D Thanks Dave!
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby vivi » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:23 am

xceptnl wrote:I do want to add to my thoughts from my earlier post. I do not need every knife I own to be sub 2oz.
Yup. I bought a Szabo folder despite it weighing as much as two Pacific Salts and my Ark combined. I'd carry it more if it were 4 or 5oz. Still finds its way into my pocket here and there :)
Evil D wrote:
spyderwolf wrote: It just depends on how much weight matters to you. The difference between an Endura and a Pacific is .6oz, which may not be a lot but if you're hiking it all adds up. More than total weight that also effects the balance of the knife, which again you either care about or you don't.

I don't place a lot of priority on weight, but I definitely don't want a 6+oz knife in my pocket and the difference between 4oz and 3oz is absolutely noticeable.
Agreed on all counts. Two knives that have spent the most time in my pocket are the Police 3 and Military. There is .5oz difference between them. The difference is very noticeable to me.

Attire makes a big difference. In thick jeans with a belt I don't mind a 5oz folder, but if I'm hiking or rock climbing in some basketball shorts I'd much rather carry a 3oz or less knife.

Doing ultralight travels, shaving ounces here and there makes a big difference if you do it with all your gear. It can be the difference between a 28lb bike and a 34lb bike, and the former will handle with much more agility and better response. Same thing with ultralight hiking. Trimming a little weight here and there allows me to go further in one day and see more of Natures beauty.
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Police 4 K390 & FRN ||| Police 4 K390 & Pakkawood ||| Manix XL M4 DLC & Micarta ||| Street Beat


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