Why linerless?
Re: Why linerless?
Yeah rust is another. Most knives don't have rust proof liners, and few of the DLC offerings have coated liners as well like the Manix XL.
- chuck_roxas45
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Re: Why linerless?
Nobody is trying to win an argument against you. You asked a question about others' preference and it's been answered numerous times. You are free to disagree but you're probably going to have a hard time convincing them(well...us).archangel wrote:....
So in my opinion it‘s not a winning argument.
...
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Re: Why linerless?
Some knives that are linerless have a lot of flex in them and are of little use when using them hard. However, Spyderco designs (and later Cold Steel designs, but not older ones) overcome this fault with better designs and materials.
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Re: Why linerless?
I like liners in my knives,but its just a matter of preference.You like what you like,but please dont tell me that the weight of a pair skeletonized liners makes a real diference.Same for the price.A linerless Delica or Endura will probably be 6$ cheaper.
Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt.
Re: Why linerless?
Why not? To some of us it does. We all have our preferences.spyderwolf wrote:dont tell me that the weight of a pair skeletonized liners makes a real diference.
.5 - 1oz of weight saved matters more than the difference in edge holding between S30V and CTS204P for example.
I carry Spydercos while doing ultralight hiking, running, rock climbing, doing ultralight bike tours where I use an 18lb carbon fiber bike and ~8lbs of gear to cross the country, etc. Weights a pretty big deal to me.
Re: Why linerless?
It just depends on how much weight matters to you. The difference between an Endura and a Pacific is .6oz, which may not be a lot but if you're hiking it all adds up. More than total weight that also effects the balance of the knife, which again you either care about or you don't.spyderwolf wrote:I like liners in my knives,but its just a matter of preference.You like what you like,but please dont tell me that the weight of a pair skeletonized liners makes a real diference.Same for the price.A linerless Delica or Endura will probably be 6$ cheaper.
I don't place a lot of priority on weight, but I definitely don't want a 6+oz knife in my pocket and the difference between 4oz and 3oz is absolutely noticeable. For years I struggled with choosing a favorite between the Para 2 and the Manix 2, and lighter weight was always one of the better aspects of the Para 2.
The idea that a knife is weaker without liners is nonsense really. If you look at the Manix 2 back lock, the G10 is thicker than you see on most knifes. I think you all would be shocked at how tough a slab of G10 is when beat on. I've seen guys hammer this stuff into a log like a railroad spike. At the very least it's a good idea to put some very small liners around the pivot to prevent the pivot hole from elongating with hard use, but that's a worst case scenario otherwise you'd see it more in the Salt knives, where FRN is far less rigid than G10.
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- xceptnl
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Re: Why linerless?
I do want to add to my thoughts from my earlier post. I do not need every knife I own to be sub 2oz. I like the weight and heft on some designs, however it is very subjective. I hold a given knife in my hand and think, "hmmm, this seems perfect". Still others though i love as they are but wouldn't mind trying them in a lighter weight without liners. The Delica 4 is a terrific knife, but I have also enjoyed carrying the D3 with its barrel clip and linerless design.
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Re: Why linerless?
Like i've said,to each his own.I still think a Snickers bar is not that heavyEvil D wrote:It just depends on how much weight matters to you. The difference between an Endura and a Pacific is .6oz, which may not be a lot but if you're hiking it all adds up. More than total weight that also effects the balance of the knife, which again you either care about or you don't.spyderwolf wrote:I like liners in my knives,but its just a matter of preference.You like what you like,but please dont tell me that the weight of a pair skeletonized liners makes a real diference.Same for the price.A linerless Delica or Endura will probably be 6$ cheaper.
I don't place a lot of priority on weight, but I definitely don't want a 6+oz knife in my pocket and the difference between 4oz and 3oz is absolutely noticeable. For years I struggled with choosing a favorite between the Para 2 and the Manix 2, and lighter weight was always one of the better aspects of the Para 2.
The idea that a knife is weaker without liners is nonsense really. If you look at the Manix 2 back lock, the G10 is thicker than you see on most knifes. I think you all would be shocked at how tough a slab of G10 is when beat on. I've seen guys hammer this stuff into a log like a railroad spike. At the very least it's a good idea to put some very small liners around the pivot to prevent the pivot hole from elongating with hard use, but that's a worst case scenario otherwise you'd see it more in the Salt knives, where FRN is far less rigid than G10.
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Re: Why linerless?
spyderwolf wrote: Like i've said,to each his own.I still think a Snickers bar is not that heavy
Well regardless of weight the biggest reason I like linerless is the modding factor. There are slews of knives I'd own if I could tweak the handle shape without getting into the liners.
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Re: Why linerless?
Conversely, we've seen a ton of cool replacement scales for the Delica, Paramilitary 2, and Manix, because they DO have liners. :confused: But I agree. I would love to be able to grind off a ton of handle from the Para 2 and Para 3, if only to have a different form factor amongst my multiple Paras.Evil D wrote:spyderwolf wrote: Like i've said,to each his own.I still think a Snickers bar is not that heavy
Well regardless of weight the biggest reason I like linerless is the modding factor. There are slews of knives I'd own if I could tweak the handle shape without getting into the liners.
Re: Why linerless?
i would imagine it's actually easier to make custom scales for linerless knives compared to knives with nested liners like pm2 bc you wouldn't have to mill the scales for liners to fit.carrot wrote:Conversely, we've seen a ton of cool replacement scales for the Delica, Paramilitary 2, and Manix, because they DO have liners. :confused: But I agree. I would love to be able to grind off a ton of handle from the Para 2 and Para 3, if only to have a different form factor amongst my multiple Paras.Evil D wrote:spyderwolf wrote: Like i've said,to each his own.I still think a Snickers bar is not that heavy
Well regardless of weight the biggest reason I like linerless is the modding factor. There are slews of knives I'd own if I could tweak the handle shape without getting into the liners.
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- thewoodpecker
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Re: Why linerless?
+1Spydergirl88 wrote:i would imagine it's actually easier to make custom scales for linerless knives compared to knives with nested liners like pm2 bc you wouldn't have to mill the scales for liners to fit.carrot wrote:Conversely, we've seen a ton of cool replacement scales for the Delica, Paramilitary 2, and Manix, because they DO have liners. :confused: But I agree. I would love to be able to grind off a ton of handle from the Para 2 and Para 3, if only to have a different form factor amongst my multiple Paras.Evil D wrote:spyderwolf wrote: Like i've said,to each his own.I still think a Snickers bar is not that heavy
Well regardless of weight the biggest reason I like linerless is the modding factor. There are slews of knives I'd own if I could tweak the handle shape without getting into the liners.
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Re: Why linerless?
carrot wrote:Conversely, we've seen a ton of cool replacement scales for the Delica, Paramilitary 2, and Manix, because they DO have liners. :confused: But I agree. I would love to be able to grind off a ton of handle from the Para 2 and Para 3, if only to have a different form factor amongst my multiple Paras.Evil D wrote:spyderwolf wrote: Like i've said,to each his own.I still think a Snickers bar is not that heavy
Well regardless of weight the biggest reason I like linerless is the modding factor. There are slews of knives I'd own if I could tweak the handle shape without getting into the liners.
Replacing the scales is small potatoes. I'm talking about removing finger grooves and adding choils. Custom scales still won't let me do that if the nested liners follow the shape of the scale.
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Re: Why linerless?
Yesterday I handled a Manix LW at a knife shop and man... what a delight to have such a big knife and so lightweight. Same feeling for the Pacific Salt, when I handled it for the first time I loved it. I'm a small folders guy, as for my uses 3in blade are perfect and while camping and hiking I usually prefer a fixed blade, but the feeling of those lightweight knives is just amazing.
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Re: Why linerless?
I prefer midlock knives, don't use a clip, and don't hold my knives in a death grip. So, for me, unless the handle is going to feature bolsters, liners serve no useful functions and omitting them allows for a thinner, lighter knife.archangel wrote:Many of you seem to prefer linerless designs. Why?
I for my part like the looks of a handle sheet on top of a visible liner. It just looks right when the blade is parked between steel liners.
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Re: Why linerless?
Tastes are so different. Every time when I handled my Manix LW I felt it was too light for such a rather large and wide knife. How delighted I was when I replaced it with the KC exclusive Cru-Wear version. :)
Oh, and again: the P4 proves that any knife with liners can still be thin!
Oh, and again: the P4 proves that any knife with liners can still be thin!
Michael
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
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Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
Re: Why linerless?
+1 here.archangel wrote:Tastes are so different. Every time when I handled my Manix LW I felt it was too light for such a rather large and wide knife. How delighted I was when I replaced it with the KC exclusive Cru-Wear version. :)
Oh, and again: the P4 proves that any knife with liners can still be thin!
This has been my experience as well, and why I am looking forward to the Manix 2 CPM M-4, BladeHQ Exclusive.
I can only wish that the 2018 :spyder: catalog will feature the Manix 2 in linered G-10 with a Maxamet blade, as an option to the LW version.
Dave
Re: Why linerless?
At least one other who‘s as nuts as I am. :D Thanks Dave!El Gato wrote:+1 here.archangel wrote:Tastes are so different. Every time when I handled my Manix LW I felt it was too light for such a rather large and wide knife. How delighted I was when I replaced it with the KC exclusive Cru-Wear version. :)
Oh, and again: the P4 proves that any knife with liners can still be thin!
This has been my experience as well, and why I am looking forward to the Manix 2 CPM M-4, BladeHQ Exclusive.
I can only wish that the 2018 :spyder: catalog will feature the Manix 2 in linered G-10 with a Maxamet blade, as an option to the LW version.
Dave
Michael
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
Re: Why linerless?
:D Well, we might be a minority of two, but we is what we is ...... :Darchangel wrote:At least one other who‘s as nuts as I am. :D Thanks Dave!El Gato wrote:+1 here.archangel wrote:Tastes are so different. Every time when I handled my Manix LW I felt it was too light for such a rather large and wide knife. How delighted I was when I replaced it with the KC exclusive Cru-Wear version. :)
Oh, and again: the P4 proves that any knife with liners can still be thin!
This has been my experience as well, and why I am looking forward to the Manix 2 CPM M-4, BladeHQ Exclusive.
I can only wish that the 2018 :spyder: catalog will feature the Manix 2 in linered G-10 with a Maxamet blade, as an option to the LW version.
Dave
Dave
Re: Why linerless?
Yup. I bought a Szabo folder despite it weighing as much as two Pacific Salts and my Ark combined. I'd carry it more if it were 4 or 5oz. Still finds its way into my pocket here and there :)xceptnl wrote:I do want to add to my thoughts from my earlier post. I do not need every knife I own to be sub 2oz.
Agreed on all counts. Two knives that have spent the most time in my pocket are the Police 3 and Military. There is .5oz difference between them. The difference is very noticeable to me.Evil D wrote:spyderwolf wrote: It just depends on how much weight matters to you. The difference between an Endura and a Pacific is .6oz, which may not be a lot but if you're hiking it all adds up. More than total weight that also effects the balance of the knife, which again you either care about or you don't.
I don't place a lot of priority on weight, but I definitely don't want a 6+oz knife in my pocket and the difference between 4oz and 3oz is absolutely noticeable.
Attire makes a big difference. In thick jeans with a belt I don't mind a 5oz folder, but if I'm hiking or rock climbing in some basketball shorts I'd much rather carry a 3oz or less knife.
Doing ultralight travels, shaving ounces here and there makes a big difference if you do it with all your gear. It can be the difference between a 28lb bike and a 34lb bike, and the former will handle with much more agility and better response. Same thing with ultralight hiking. Trimming a little weight here and there allows me to go further in one day and see more of Natures beauty.