Why linerless?

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archangel
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Why linerless?

Postby archangel » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:58 pm

Many of you seem to prefer linerless designs. Why?

I for my part like the looks of a handle sheet on top of a visible liner. It just looks right when the blade is parked between steel liners.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby xceptnl » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:03 pm

archangel wrote:Many of you seem to prefer linerless designs. Why?

I for my part like the looks of a handle sheet on top of a visible liner. It just looks right when the blade is parked between steel liners.
For me personally it harkens back to the linerless micarta days of Spydies past like the original JD Smith and Caly Jr. I hope this is a trend of things to come. If so I am extremely pleased.
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archangel
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby archangel » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:30 pm

But why do you think it‘s better? Just your personal preference, designwise? Or is there any major advantage I am missing? I get that linerless designs may have a lower weight. But I can‘t see that this must be considered as advantage.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby xceptnl » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:51 pm

archangel wrote:But why do you think it‘s better? Just your personal preference, designwise? Or is there any major advantage I am missing? I get that linerless designs may have a lower weight. But I can‘t see that this must be considered as advantage.
I feel it is a more aesthetically pleasing alternative to the FRN knives and provides adequate enough rigidity without the need for additional weight. Plus (in theory) it could impact the manufacturing costs to be without a liner and thus help the MSRP.
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Evil D
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Evil D » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:52 pm

Because I can alter the shape of the handle to fit my hand without worrying about hitting liners and I can make the knife look factory made. I like the simplicity of it.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby goonielife » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:54 pm

Weight, not for me personally, but there is A LOT of discussion around weight.
Beyond that I think you are stepping into "why anything" country, why does anyone like anything. Why do you like them WITH liners?
Other possibilities include maintenance, depending on the usage, even though the blade and liners are typically different metal with liners being (most likely) more stain resistant. If there are no metal liners, there is no need to worry as much about wiping/cleaning the liners inside the knife.

COST, if linerless is cheaper (which on the lightweight models it typically is), then the money can go into the blade steel. Lightweight knives are nice options to try different blade steels, because they simply aren't as expensive as their non-linerless counterparts. A great example is S110V UKPK, at less than $100.

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Re: Why linerless?

Postby ABX2011 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:56 pm

Weight and size reduction and better balance. Lighter and thinner carries better. More neutral balance can improve feel when in use.

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Re: Why linerless?

Postby carrot » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:00 pm

Not only are linerless designs lighter, they have one less part where dirt and grime can hide inside or behind, and for those of us living in places or doing things where rust could be a concern, it's one less metal part that can rust.

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of Spydercos with liners or skeletonized liners that I love and do not want to see changed in the least bit. But I also really want to see more linerless Spydercos that embrace their lightness and simplicity.

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archangel
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby archangel » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:11 pm

Can the cost be so much more when you have liners? Like you said, they’re probably not made of the same premium steel as the blade. But ok, it‘s still steel, and steel costs money, and needs certain care. You do have a good point there.

As to linerless designs being slimmer: I think a very good example of a very slim knife with liners is the P4. So in my opinion it‘s not a winning argument.

Weight: Yes, liner designs probably weigh more. I like some weight in my hand. But that‘s just personal preference. Like I said, I prefer the looks of steel being parked in between steel.

Guess I will just continue to enjoy liner designs where I can, and leave you enjoy lightweight simple linerless designs, too. :)
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby thewoodpecker » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:16 pm

xceptnl wrote:
archangel wrote:But why do you think it‘s better? Just your personal preference, designwise? Or is there any major advantage I am missing? I get that linerless designs may have a lower weight. But I can‘t see that this must be considered as advantage.
I feel it is a more aesthetically pleasing alternative to the FRN knives and provides adequate enough rigidity without the need for additional weight. Plus (in theory) it could impact the manufacturing costs to be without a liner and thus help the MSRP.
^^^ +1 ^^^ Took the words right out of my mouth. :spyder:
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby JimP » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:18 pm

carrot wrote:Not only are linerless designs lighter, they have one less part where dirt and grime can hide inside or behind, and for those of us living in places or doing things where rust could be a concern, it's one less metal part that can rust.

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of Spydercos with liners or skeletonized liners that I love and do not want to see changed in the least bit. But I also really want to see more linerless Spydercos that embrace their lightness and simplicity.
ABX2011 wrote:Weight and size reduction and better balance. Lighter and thinner carries better. More neutral balance can improve feel when in use.
These guy's really nailed it, I also think Cold Steel probably helped people to understand that liner less G10 handles gives nothing away in strength, combined with the above benefits.

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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Evil D » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:20 pm

archangel wrote:Can the cost be so much more when you have liners? Like you said, they’re probably not made of the same premium steel as the blade. But ok, it‘s still steel, and steel costs money, and needs certain care. You do have a good point there.

As to linerless designs being slimmer: I think a very good example of a very slim knife with liners is the P4. So in my opinion it‘s not a winning argument.

Weight: Yes, liner designs probably weigh more. I like some weight in my hand. But that‘s just personal preference. Like I said, I prefer the looks of steel being parked in between steel.

Guess I will just continue to enjoy liner designs where I can, and leave you enjoy lightweight simple linerless designs, too. :)

Liners are an additional material with additional machining cost, which are typically nested into the scale which is another machining process. All that has to add to overall cost regardless of how inexpensive the liner material is.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby thewoodpecker » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:21 pm

In addition to the thoughtful responses above: The lack of steel liners removes a component that has the potential for corrosion in adverse conditions. I think that FRN is great but my understanding is that the costs for setting up the molds for a new model is expensive. Milling G10 is a more cost effective method for producing a lightweight folding knife with little (if any) loss in performance and a significant savings in cost.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby El Gato » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:39 pm

.....
Last edited by El Gato on Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Why linerless?

Postby elena86 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:44 pm

All the above.I don't think liners, nested or not, add so much rigidity or strenght specialy if we talk G10.It's more perception than anything else.
Marius

" A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed that uses it " ( Rabindranath Tagore )

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Re: Why linerless?

Postby thewoodpecker » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:47 pm

El Gato wrote:There seems to be a lot of very good discussion in the various threads concerning FRCP, FRN, Light Weight, and Linerless knife models lately. It is almost like everyone wants lighter weight, simpler construction and lower selling price, and I am seeing more and more new Light Weight versions of so many Signature Series knives these days. It almost looks like a trend developing and a sign of things to come. If this is what most folks want then I am happy to see more options for those who want them.

But it also makes me wonder about the future of the more robust models with full liners or skeletonized liners, that I personally prefer for the heft and feel of them in hand and stability of the tool in use. Am I beginning to see the last of some of these personal favorites?

Of course there is always a bright side to most everything, and if the future trend is going to be for the Light Weight et. al. versions, then I am going to be keeping a lot more money in my pocket.
I guess I had better grab a couple of the Manix 2 CPM M-4 Blade HQ Exclusives before the ss linered knives become the next on the disco'ed list.

Dave
I think it is unlikely that Spyderco will be discontinuing stalwart, steel liner models from their lineup.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Nate » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:34 pm

This may just be me, but one reason I like linerless or nested liner designs is that I'm married and left handed. I don't like the metal to metal contact between my ring and the liners.

...I guess I could just stop wearing my wedding band, but I don't know how the wife'd feel about it lol. :D :o

Also generally agree with the other "pros" pointed out already.
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Re: Why linerless?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:26 pm

archangel wrote:But why do you think it‘s better? Just your personal preference, designwise? Or is there any major advantage I am missing? I get that linerless designs may have a lower weight. But I can‘t see that this must be considered as advantage.
How so? Many of us prefer light to heavy. For example when I jog up and down a mountain near where I live I only ever carry unlined knives like a Pacific Salt.

The way I see it, the lighter your knives are, the more of them you can comfortably carry at once ;)

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Re: Why linerless?

Postby tangent » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:56 pm

Simplicity, ease of maintenance, lighter, just as strong (for reasonable applications), less worry about rust.

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Re: Why linerless?

Postby Surfingringo » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:03 pm

Ease of maintenance in corrosive environments. No liners to rust.

*I like knives with liners but I’m glad Spyderco is giving us a number of linerless options too.


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