Why does CPM S90V get such high marks?

[awa54]

S90V is my least favorite "premium" steel, is holds a fair edge for a long time, but try as I might, I can't get what I feel is a truly sharp edge on it. S110V is IMO, superior in every way, it keeps its working edge longer, gets a more aggressive edge off low grit stones and I can actually bring it up to shaving sharpness without heroic effort at the sharpener, plus it touches up on the SM with ease.

I constantly find myself wishing that my Forum N5 LW and CS M2 LW were *any* other steel than S90V

[Wrathhog]

I'd wager if you didn't see the stamp on the blade, you wouldn't know the difference. Someone can probably quote the specifics, but I don't think the makeup is very different between the two.

[awa54]

I'd wager if you didn't see the stamp on the blade, you wouldn't know the difference. Someone can probably quote the specifics, but I don't think the makeup is very different between the two.

I can certainly tell the difference... Unless of course the reality I've been experiencing lately is fully delusional

...and the makeup of the two steels differs radically, despite the fact that many seem to lump them into a similar performance category.

[Wrathhog]

I have read that material tests even have difficulty telling the two apart. I'm no expert in metallurgy though, just citing what I've read.

[Doc Dan]

They often get lumped together but they are not exactly the same. http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/st ... hrn=1&gm=0

[Brock O Lee]

I prefer S90V! :p

[Bloke]

I kind of get what you're saying David but it's not that bad. :)

It frustrated me a little when my Sprig (the only S90V I have till I buy a Southfork) came blunt and it wanted to glaze fresh lapped SiC stones in setting a bevel. I re lapped them and persevered. I can't remember for sure and I think I went to 600grit but it certainly wasn't as sharp as I'd expect so I went to a 1200grit bonded diamond and that fixed it. That said it wasn't like fresh sharpend ZDP-189 or HAP40 but it shaved cleanly and fair to say it was sharp.

What I like best about it is, I've maintained it with chrome oxide on stiff leather since that initial sharpening and it's filleted close to forty odd solid fish and cut through all their rib bones in as many weeks. It filleted a 58cm Flattie last Sunday as a matter of fact. :cool:

I'm fondling it as I type and I can see a few micro chips near the tip from brain spiking fish I shouldn't have and a little discolouration from putting it in it's sheath wet with saltwater and a little blood but overall the thing's still bloody sharp. :rolleyes:

Not sure if I mentioned but I love my Sprig! :D

[anagarika]

I don’t have S90V, my only experience with S110V is blurple Manix 2. It got sharp (thanks to Wobagger over BF for his enthusiastic approach), but somehow I feel it’s nowhere near my VG10. Quite close to the Manix LW S90V my friend recently got (factory edge), still not shaving nicely like my VG10 Endura.

[elena86]

I prefer S90V! :p

Me too :p

[thombrogan]

With all of the company exclusives in S90V, preferring S110V is helping you stay frugal. So there's that.

[bearfacedkiller]

I feel as though I can tell the difference but I also think that they are more the same than they are different. My hunch is that S90V is easier on the maker. What are subtle differences to us add up when making over 1000 knives.

[Donut]

How do you sharpen? What method or system and what stones?

I don't notice much difference between the two. I can get S90V pretty darn sharp. I think my sharpening method is to just keep going until it gets to what I consider pretty darn sharp.

Looking at the zKnives thing that Doc Dan linked, I would say it's the Cobalt. They usually say Cobalt makes things work a lot easier.

My summary of that chart is: S110V has a little more Carbon, Chromium, Molybendium. S90V has a little Tungsten, Manganese, Silicon. S110V has a good amount of Niobium and Cobalt.

[mb1]

I can certainly relate David. I think the first time I reprofiled S90V on the diamond rods it drove me in search of a coarse bench stone! It is tough stuff, and still tests my patience with Sharpmaker maintenance. Folks with Edge Pro systems and the like probably just hit it with the appropriate grits and move along.

I will say that similar to Bloke, I have had success with green compound strop maintenance, but you have to really stay on top of it.

I am less enamoured with the high wear resistance steels these days in general. I appreciate toughness and ease of sharpening moreso now. Maybe S90V even helped me understand Deacon's love of VG-10!

[toomzz]

S90V is since long my absolute favorite stainless steel, even over S110V....

[Evil D]

These kinds of topics I always suggest you first blame your skill or technique before you blame the steel. But, since you're getting 110 sharp, I suggest taking the other steel back to square one and destress the edge, then properly apex the edge, and see how that goes. There's no real reason you shouldn't be able to get 90 as sharp as 110, all things being equal. How the two behave after being sharpened and used is a different story but simply sharpening them should be very similar affairs.

[Eli Chaps]

Timely discussion for me as I just ordered the Cutlery Shoppe Manix 2 LW in S90V. This will be my first experience with it and I don't have any 110V. My only real "super" steel is ZDP-189 and that is a challenge but doable. I use a KME and diamond stones for that and reckon I'll do the same for the 90V.

Like mb1 said, I tend to appreciate the "softer" steels like VG10 but it sure doesn't help to branch out and experiment. :)

[awa54]

With all of the company exclusives in S90V, preferring S110V is helping you stay frugal. So there's that.

:D

How do you sharpen? What method or system and what stones?

I don't notice much difference between the two. I can get S90V pretty darn sharp. I think my sharpening method is to just keep going until it gets to what I consider pretty darn sharp.

Looking at the zKnives thing that Doc Dan linked, I would say it's the Cobalt. They usually say Cobalt makes things work a lot easier.

My summary of that chart is: S110V has a little more Carbon, Chromium, Molybendium. S90V has a little Tungsten, Manganese, Silicon. S110V has a good amount of Niobium and Cobalt.

My forum knife got "the full treatment" on the Hapstone Pro V5: bevel set at 15 DPS with coarse (250 grit) diamond plate, 240 grit bonded diamond (BD from here on), to refine the scratch pattern and minimize burr, next 400 BD, 800 BD, 1200 BD, then 20 DPS mini-bevel with 1200 BD. This resulted in a very poor cutting knife... I backed it up and re-finished at 800 grit, this is now a shaving sharp knife and cuts aggressively, but took much more effort than either my S110V PM2 or M2 and it definitely doesn't shave as smoothly as my S110V knives. I haven't done the whole progression on the M2 LW yet, but it has been taken to apex with the brown SM rods at 15 DPS and then micro-bevelled on the same medium grit rods to 20 DPS. It cuts paper and shaves, but not anything like the S110V M2 and it doesn't hold that edge as well as the S110V blades in weekend yard & garden use.

I realize that S90V isn't a "critical sharpness" steel, but I feel that in my use S110V is better at everything S90V is good at and whether or not the raw stock is more expensive, the street prices on the knives aren't much different.

Timely discussion for me as I just ordered the Cutlery Shoppe Manix 2 LW in S90V. This will be my first experience with it and I don't have any 110V. My only real "super" steel is ZDP-189 and that is a challenge but doable. I use a KME and diamond stones for that and reckon I'll do the same for the 90V.

Like mb1 said, I tend to appreciate the "softer" steels like VG10 but it sure doesn't help to branch out and experiment. :)

I love the orange handle and the *concept* of an M2 LW with a high carbide blade, but I have been a bit underwhelmed by the performance and find myself wondering if I might not be better off with the blurple M2 or KC exclusive M2 LW (XHP) in my pocket for weekend chores.

[mb1]

@awa54 David, what kind of sharpening stroke do you use? Heel to tip?

You inspired me to do some sharpening. Did a full reprofile on S90V today - ugh. I'll share a couple thoughts and observations when I get a moment later on.

[Donut]

I usually take Silicone Carbide (Moldmasters) 400 grit for anything and everything until I have trouble with it.

For you, it could just be the angles. Have you tried the sharpie method? You color the bevel with a sharpie and sharpen, so you can tell where your stones are removing steel from.

I have something similar to the Edge Pro and I worry a little about how thick my stones are and how the stone thickness will affect my angles. I don't know a good solution outside of trying to use stones the same thickness and recheck everything with the sharpie method.

[SGJarrod]

I have something similar to the Edge Pro and I worry a little about how thick my stones are and how the stone thickness will affect my angles. I don't know a good solution outside of trying to use stones the same thickness and recheck everything with the sharpie method.

Buy an angle cube. $30 off amazon. That's what I use when I go from stone to homemade balsa strops on my KME.

To the original poster. I use a KME so I may not be much help. The diamond stones cut anything. I personally find s90v easier to sharpen than s110v with said equipment. I can get either s90v or s110v as sharp as VG10. Granted it takes the KME for me to do it. VG10 gets stupid sharp off just the Sharpmaker. I couldn't sharpen s110v to save my life on the Sharpmaker.