The New Military 2!

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
User avatar
chuck_roxas45
Member
Posts: 8677
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:43 pm
Location: Small City, Philippines
Contact:

Re: The New Military 2!

Postby chuck_roxas45 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:54 pm

runswithscissors wrote: Using the whole, "if my son was a soldier what knife would i want him to have" blah blah blah, i would appreciate a little more robust design and would be willing to sacrifice a couple of ounces for additional strength. I'd rather have a slightly heavier tool that works than a lighter one that is broken. I have read enough comments in various youtube reviews from former military guys who have complained about breaking their Military knives to make doubt its moniker.

As a regular dude in the EDC world perhaps it's not as important to me, but if I expect to also use it as a tactical self defense blade then the more robust design would be desirable.
See here's the problem. You seem to think the military is built for fighting. It's not.

User avatar
xceptnl
Member
Posts: 8353
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:48 pm
Location: Tobacco Country, Virginia
Contact:

Re: The New Military 2!

Postby xceptnl » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:56 pm

runswithscissors wrote:
Using the whole, "if my son was a soldier what knife would i want him to have" blah blah blah, i would appreciate a little more robust design and would be willing to sacrifice a couple of ounces for additional strength. I'd rather have a slightly heavier tool that works than a lighter one that is broken. I have read enough comments in various youtube reviews from former military guys who have complained about breaking their Military knives to make doubt its moniker.

As a regular dude in the EDC world perhaps it's not as important to me, but if I expect to also use it as a tactical self defense blade then the more robust design would be desirable.
This is the confusing part. If you plan to stab or slice, a lighter, more agile tool seems to be key. If I am planning to open SPAM cans and the like, perhaps I would want a more robust tip. Have you handled the TUFF?
Image
sal wrote: .... even today, we design a knife from the edge out!
*Landon*

carrot
Member
Posts: 754
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:38 pm

Re: The New Military 2!

Postby carrot » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:57 pm

Myg30 wrote:
carrot wrote:The Military is perfect as is. The handle doesn't need to look like swiss cheese, it's strong enough as it is, and a lockback would be the wrong locking mechanism for a knife that needs flow-thru handles. But it sounds like you described the new Police 4 pretty good :D

I'm not sure I understand the tip up versus tip down fight anyway. On knives as big as the Military, a tip down clip would make it pretty hard to draw and open. So I just leave the clip whichever way they came factory installed. People buy thumb openers and flippers, so it's not like muscle memory makes life that hard.

Carrot, there are some that can draw and cut you faster then you can step back. I believe they may prefer their way of carry. I'm an old guy and prefer tip down so I can grab the choil with thumb and index finger, draw and snap open. No other way fer me.
How about a S110v in combo either on a PM2 or Native5 ?

Mike
Mike,
I used to be a pretty fast draw myself with the Military. I also used to be just about as quick with various knives that are not sold with a :spyder: emblazoned on the blade. I would practice over and over until eventually one day I found myself able to have a drawn knife out and open, by instinct rather than by any conscious thought.

Now that I have diversified my knife options a bit since then I am no longer very quick. But if I had plans to carry a knife where quick and reliable deploy was necessary I would just always carry the same knife. Thus, all of my other knives can be carried as they were conceived and designed without a worry for their clip and carry orientation. Back when SD was a constant topic, I had frequently argued that your SD knife should be the same knife you use for everything else. You build up a muscle memory that way. But as a knife collector, that is boring, and I have no plans to ever draw my knife for defense.

I understand when people have a preference for one way or another. It's the same way I will nearly never carry a knife without a choil, or a thumb-hole. But I also don't understand just how strongly people vehemently speak out against tip-down carry. It works for me, and tip-up works too. Certainly if one liked a design well enough they'd give it a shot despite theoretical shortcomings. I own and have carried many designs that I would never have enjoyed on paper. They wound up more than the sum of their specs, and I opened my horizons a bit.

runswithscissors
Member
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:51 pm

Re: The New Military 2!

Postby runswithscissors » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:01 pm

bearfacedkiller wrote:You should buy a ManixXL.
I have one manix 2 and manix 2 XL, both are awesome, highly recommend them both.

runswithscissors
Member
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:51 pm

Re: The New Military 2!

Postby runswithscissors » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:05 pm

ejames13 wrote:That's not a Military 2, it's a completely different knife.
some models are up to #2, #3, # etc, that they are no longer the same knife that started out as and have significant improvements. while their have been some minor improvements on the military they are not significant. It's been so long with out major changes perhaps it's time totally revamp or change it enough to bring it in line with the premium features many other spyderco model possess to justify the premium price.

runswithscissors
Member
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:51 pm

Re: The New Military 2!

Postby runswithscissors » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:07 pm

chuck_roxas45 wrote:
runswithscissors wrote: Using the whole, "if my son was a soldier what knife would i want him to have" blah blah blah, i would appreciate a little more robust design and would be willing to sacrifice a couple of ounces for additional strength. I'd rather have a slightly heavier tool that works than a lighter one that is broken. I have read enough comments in various youtube reviews from former military guys who have complained about breaking their Military knives to make doubt its moniker.

As a regular dude in the EDC world perhaps it's not as important to me, but if I expect to also use it as a tactical self defense blade then the more robust design would be desirable.
See here's the problem. You seem to think the military is built for fighting. It's not.

See here's the problem, it should be.

Do you want your son in the military with a knife that is not made for fighting, or at least as robust of a folder as it reasonably can be while still retaining some EDC/utility features?
Last edited by runswithscissors on Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
chuck_roxas45
Member
Posts: 8677
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:43 pm
Location: Small City, Philippines
Contact:

Re: The New Military 2!

Postby chuck_roxas45 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:09 pm

runswithscissors wrote:
See here's the problem, it should be.
Why?

User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 21352
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: The New Military 2!

Postby Evil D » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:10 pm

If I'm in the military and I'm in combat and I'm down to just a folding pocket knife for self defense then I've really screwed up somewhere.

People forget sometimes that knives are for cutting things, not for door breaching. Millions of soldiers have been issued SAK's and have been served well by them. If you're a soldier or you're looking to get your soldier family member a knife for self defense, I'd recommend the Warrior.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

User avatar
bearfacedkiller
Member
Posts: 9586
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:22 pm
Location: hiding in the woods...

Re: The New Military 2!

Postby bearfacedkiller » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:13 pm

Did you read in your YouTube reviews that there is a lot of knife fighting in the Military? :)
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

AccountDeletedUserRequest
Member
Posts: 6612
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: The New Military 2!

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:18 pm

carrot wrote: I'm not sure I understand the tip up versus tip down fight anyway. On knives as big as the Military, a tip down clip would make it pretty hard to draw and open.
Not with XXL hands.

If I draw a Military with the factory tip down clip I have to rotate it then open it.

If I draw a Military with a tip up clip, I need no grip adjustment between drawing it and opening it.

I carry my Szabo Folder and Police 3's tip up and find drawing them faster than if I set them to tip down. I've tried both.

More options is good. Mark my words, the Military 2 will have a tip up option. I would wager it is the #1 requested alteration to the model. Aside from minor aesthetics worries there is no reason not to. It won't change the function of the knife for people who want to carry it tip down, but it will save people like me from having to pay someone $30-50 for a mod.

AccountDeletedUserRequest
Member
Posts: 6612
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: The New Military 2!

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:21 pm

Evil D wrote:If I'm in the military and I'm in combat and I'm down to just a folding pocket knife for self defense then I've really screwed up somewhere.
Wonder how many confirmed kills there are in the history of the US Army with folding knives :D

carrot
Member
Posts: 754
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:38 pm

Re: The New Military 2!

Postby carrot » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:23 pm

runswithscissors wrote: Using the whole, "if my son was a soldier what knife would i want him to have" blah blah blah, i would appreciate a little more robust design and would be willing to sacrifice a couple of ounces for additional strength. I'd rather have a slightly heavier tool that works than a lighter one that is broken. I have read enough comments in various youtube reviews from former military guys who have complained about breaking their Military knives to make doubt its moniker.
I don't think the Military is really that apt a name in 2017. Today, "military" evokes quarter-inch thick striped blades, you-break-it-we-replace-it warranties, and big, heavy Integral locks.

But back when the Military was designed and named, folding knives were expected to cut, fixed blades (bayonets and Ka-bars) were expected to stab and pry, and guns expected to dispatch enemy combatants. And so it was designed to those needs. A knife that could cut, cut nearly anything, and cut well, for a long time; to have a lock that works reliably and won't get fouled up when conditions are dirty; to be easy to deploy and close while wearing gloves; and to be light and skinny to carry as not to add to the incredible amount of weight that our armed forces are expected to carry.

I think that the Military meets all those needs very well, and continues to do 21 years later since its introduction. I don't think there's that many knives that are still indisputably king two decades after their initial release. (And yet, virtually unchanged!)

To me, my Military is an apt onion-slicer, an excellent sandwich-splitter, and an impeccable box-dispatching tool.

If Sal had asked me what to name the Military, it'd have been called the Super-Slicer 3000 :D

User avatar
Surfingringo
Member
Posts: 5487
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:02 pm
Location: Costa Rica

Re: The New Military 2!

Postby Surfingringo » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:32 pm

Vivi wrote:
More options is good. Mark my words, the Military 2 will have a tip up option. I would wager it is the #1 requested alteration to the model. Aside from minor aesthetics worries there is no reason not to. It won't change the function of the knife for people who want to carry it tip down, but it will save people like me from having to pay someone $30-50 for a mod.
What Vivi says. ^

I think that often when folks are confounded by why anyone would carry a large knife like the Millie tip up, it is because they think that "ease and speed of draw" is the most important aspect of clip orientation. It may be to them but the problem comes when they assume that everyone must share their priorities....they don't. Some people never give a thought to whether it takes them a half second longer to pull their knife out of their pocket and open it. They might be more concerned with having the lanyard hole exposed rather than down in the pocket. Others still might feel that having the spine of the blade safely up against the seam of their pocket is most important to them. Everyone has different priorities and like Vivi says, options are good.

User avatar
Bloke
Member
Posts: 4519
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 12:43 am
Location: Sydney, Australia.

Re: The New Military 2!

Postby Bloke » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:34 pm

bearfacedkiller wrote:Did you read in your YouTube reviews that there is a lot of knife fighting in the Military? :)
;)
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

User avatar
Bdubs808
Member
Posts: 656
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Oahu, Hawaii

Re: The New Military 2!

Postby Bdubs808 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:58 pm

Vivi wrote:Not with XXL hands.

If I draw a Military with the factory tip down clip I have to rotate it then open it.

If I draw a Military with a tip up clip, I need no grip adjustment between drawing it and opening it.


I carry my Szabo Folder and Police 3's tip up and find drawing them faster than if I set them to tip down. I've tried both.

More options is good. Mark my words, the Military 2 will have a tip up option. I would wager it is the #1 requested alteration to the model. Aside from minor aesthetics worries there is no reason not to. It won't change the function of the knife for people who want to carry it tip down, but it will save people like me from having to pay someone $30-50 for a mod.
I held off on purchasing a Military for quite a while, primarily because of the tip down only carry. I thought that I would hate the tip down, but it's never been a problem. I just think more options is great, and I always enjoyed the simplicity of drawing tip up, not having to rotate the knife to grip it correctly. I know there is the Spydie drop deployment; I think it's fun to play around with, but I would never deploy that way in an emergency.
:spyder:

User avatar
anycal
Member
Posts: 1471
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:40 pm
Location: California

Re: The New Military 2!

Postby anycal » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:55 pm

runswithscissors wrote:
Bloke wrote:
runswithscissors wrote:I just can't bring myself to buy the Military with all of its deficiencies.
:confused: That's alright mate, don't buy it! :confused:
I won't!
Not sure if you have one, or if you handled the CQIed one, but you are missing out.

As far as larger folders go, there is nothing out there that compares. Size, weight, ergos, steel options. I am not aware of one.

I kind of understand the 'want' for a more robust Military. I thought I 'needed' a more robust knife in the PM2 size. I got me a ZT. Although it is a beautiful knife, I didn't really need it. A lighter, thinner PM2 will replace it every time.

Spyderco wants to make a more robust Military? I am sure someone will buy it. I have no need for it.

Image
Peter

User avatar
ZrowsN1s
Member
Posts: 4976
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:08 pm
Location: San Diego, California USA

Re: The New Military 2!

Postby ZrowsN1s » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:44 pm

runswithscissors wrote:....
As a regular dude in the EDC world perhaps it's not as important to me, but if I expect to also use it as a tactical self defense blade then the more robust design would be desirable.
Over the years I've heard a lot of people say you can't use a small pocket knife for "self defense" or "fighting", they must not travel in the same circles as some of the former military, current military/LEO trainers, self defense experts, and others who design entire martial arts/combat systems based around blades as short as 3 inches for combat and self defense use. :rolleyes: One of my favorite knife co's makes nothing but folding combat knives for military/leo/civilian sd use. Other companies like Spyderco for example, make several knives around the 3 inch mark designed specifically for self defense : (part of the "speacialty" knives section in the catalog ;) )
Yojimbo 2
Karahawk
Janisong
P'Kal
Lil' Temperance
Introvert
Chinook (3.6")
Civilian (3.7")
Matriarch
Lil' Matriarch

...And even though they were not designed specifically for SD, these knives are considered by many to be capable self defense tools:
Delica
Endura
Para Military
Military
and several others ...


That being said... I don't think the military needs to be beefed up any to make it a more capable fighting knife. It's already there (IMHO), I can't think of a self defense scenario where the Military would fall short but a beefier knife would succeed. I wouldn't use it as a prybar like my EKI CQC 8, but if you are cutting with it (bad guys or otherwise) it should be good to go.

I bet if you got one, you'd like it.
Carrying 3 knives is perfectly normal :D
-Matt

AccountDeletedUserRequest
Member
Posts: 6612
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: The New Military 2!

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:06 pm

Bdubs808 wrote:
Vivi wrote:Not with XXL hands.

If I draw a Military with the factory tip down clip I have to rotate it then open it.

If I draw a Military with a tip up clip, I need no grip adjustment between drawing it and opening it.


I carry my Szabo Folder and Police 3's tip up and find drawing them faster than if I set them to tip down. I've tried both.

More options is good. Mark my words, the Military 2 will have a tip up option. I would wager it is the #1 requested alteration to the model. Aside from minor aesthetics worries there is no reason not to. It won't change the function of the knife for people who want to carry it tip down, but it will save people like me from having to pay someone $30-50 for a mod.
I held off on purchasing a Military for quite a while, primarily because of the tip down only carry. I thought that I would hate the tip down, but it's never been a problem. I just think more options is great, and I always enjoyed the simplicity of drawing tip up, not having to rotate the knife to grip it correctly. I know there is the Spydie drop deployment; I think it's fun to play around with, but I would never deploy that way in an emergency.
I would just prefer it having the same clip orientation as every other knife in my rotation. It's one less thing to think about when I reach for a pocket knife. Right now I have a tip down Military and tip up Pacific Salt in my pocket and I'd like them to clip the same direction. Obviously I can live with tip down knives or I wouldn't own the Military, but if it were drilled for tip up from factory I'd switch it immediately.

As it is I'm looking for someone that can do a tip up conversion.

User avatar
NoFair
Member
Posts: 2039
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:23 pm
Location: Norway

Re: The New Military 2!

Postby NoFair » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:25 am

runswithscissors wrote:Did you guys hear about the new Military 2? It's perfection!

It has the same perfect blade shape and size but is a little thicker to make it sturdier (especially the tip) for tactical use and the same enlarged spydie hole for ease of deployment. The blade steel is something that is the perfect balance/combination of edge retention, ease of sharpening and corrosion resistance. The handle in G10 has the same great ergonomics as the original. It's a little heaver with nested stainless steel liners (after all G10 doesn't inspire confidence as the frame of a hard use "Military" knife) and a new lock back system that combined with the added blade strength makes it worthy of the "Military" name and marketing hype. It has a four way pocket clip for tip up/down/right handed/left handed carry. It also has the pinned stop pin and enlarged lanyard whole.

The original is a classic to be sure but finally an updated "Military" after all these years, especially in light of the same endless feed back and complaints.

Then I woke up and realized I was dreaming again.

I just can't bring myself to buy the Military with all of its deficiencies. Sal, don't you think it's time for a Military 2?
There are no deficiencies on the Millie. I'd say all your improvements would all be set backs, but we all differ in what we think is a perfect knife ;)

User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 21352
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: The New Military 2!

Postby Evil D » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:32 am

It amazes me how heated the clip orientation debate gets. I realized early on that I had one option if I were going to use this knife, so I adapted. Simple as that.

The only thing a new Military can offer me is a lock choice that I'd maybe prefer over the liner lock, but the chances of that are very slim because they all comes with additional drawbacks. If it gets heavier, if it loses the open pillar construction, if it gets full liners, I'll pass and just keep what I have. I suspect these are also reasons why this knife has been in development purgatory.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 5-by-5, AHarbuck, AmpliFyre, autoxer, Bing [Bot], Cambertree, DigDug72, GiftedMisfit, Google [Bot], Granoo Fink, Holland, jensh, Notsurewhy, Pokey, rcwill98, Wartstein and 30 guests