Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
Indoril
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Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Postby Indoril » Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:34 pm

Popular Spyderco knives tend to fall short on edge/overall length ratio. That is, they pack less cutting edge in a relatively larger package. Some might say it's worth giving up some cutting edge for improved ergonomics, but I would argue that a good folder design maximizes both!

Here are 11 popular EDC folders of various sizes sorted by CUTTING EDGE to overall length ratio*
Image
Image
*From manufacturer's specs. Used the cutting edge when available, but some makers just give less accurate "blade length". Values are approximate

As you can see, common Spydercos tend to fall on the low end of Edge/OAL ratio. To put this in perspective, if you imagine an 8 inch OAL knife with the ratio of the ZT 450 (0.441) and another 8 inch knife with the ratio of the Delica (0.359), that's a difference of almost 2/3rds of an inch of cutting edge! That seems like a non-negligible amount. I'm not knocking Spydercos; I love the workmanship and materials of my Delica and carry it often. But I wonder if Spyderco will ever evolve their current design language to try something new?

So, I issue a challenge to Spyderco! Can they develop a knife, 6 - 7 inches overall, with an CUTTING EDGE/OAL ratio of 0.42 or more?

HARDMODE: add an Emerson wave opener


Would anyone else like to see this?

PS.

Note the Edge/Mass column. Some may doubt the value of this metric, since, unless you're an ultralight backpacker, an extra ounce or two doesn't make a difference to most people. But what this metric can tell you is how efficient the knife design is for its weight, IE how much cutting edge you get in exchange for carrying around that weight all day.
The Flash 1, with its complete lack of liners, is insanely efficient for its weight, at 1.72 mm of edge per gram! Whether or not it's worth forgoing the strength of liners altogether depends on the use case. The Dragonfly is also very efficient in this regard; if it had a higher Edge/OAL ratio, it might have been able to dethrone the Flash 1 in the weight efficiency department!

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The Mastiff
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Re: Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Postby The Mastiff » Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:47 pm

I doubt the value of this metric and I'm completely happy with my Spydercos. Challenge away though.

Joe

kwselke
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Re: Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Postby kwselke » Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:48 pm

It not the length that counts, it's how you use it.

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Re: Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Postby mattman » Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:57 pm

My hand size has been the same for quite a while now, while blade length restrictions are rampant. This metric is extremely low on my importance scale, but I do have a certain respect for the amount of blade packed into the Caly 3.5, so when it happens, it's a nice bonus, but far from a deal breaker.

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Re: Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Postby murphjd25 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:59 pm

Dang another knife request, we’re never going to get all of these out of the factory guys :rolleyes: :p :D

I’m happy with Spydercos just the way they are. They have some models with excellent Edge and length ratio and no finger choils if that’s what you want.
Last edited by murphjd25 on Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Josh

Indoril
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Re: Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Postby Indoril » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:01 pm

The Mastiff wrote:I doubt the value of this metric and I'm completely happy with my Spydercos. Challenge away though.

Joe
I am completely happy with mine too! But occasionally I wouldn't mind having a bit more edge, or having it a bit more compact in the pocket

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anycal
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Re: Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Postby anycal » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:12 pm

Mantra: .43
Peter

Indoril
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Re: Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Postby Indoril » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:15 pm

anycal wrote:Mantra: .43
Now that is a nice one! If only there was a version that is more within budget of the average user. Also I guess flipper designs lend themselves to being better in the edge/OAL department

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ZrowsN1s
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Re: Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Postby ZrowsN1s » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:22 pm

My other favorite knife co. goes for maximum edge length, it's actually a complaint I have about them. I try to plan for the worst, and for me, lock failure or an accidental close of my razor sharp knives onto my fingers is the "worst" that can happen. By giving up a little edge length you will notice a feature of most spydercos is, even if you experience an accidental close, the choil will hit your index finger and not the edge. I prefer the added safety over a few more mm of cutting edge.
Carrying 3 knives is perfectly normal :D
-Matt

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bearfacedkiller
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Re: Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Postby bearfacedkiller » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:24 pm

Your metric picked three backlocks and a knife with a choil. Spyderco likes both. You will want to look at knives that lack those features. A backlock requires a kick to prevent the blade from touching the back spacer. Unless that kick is omitted a backlock will never compare favorably to other lock types. It has nothing to do with the flipper. It has to do with the lack of a choil and the lock choice.

You want a Spydie with no choil that is not a backlock. Most of those are not in house designs. The Mantra is one. It is discontinued but take a look at the Memory. It is a bit bigger but the Pattada is an in house design with a great ratio too. They are collabs but maybe the Slysz Bowie and also the Southard.

I recognize that this is valid concern for many and they are entitled to that opinion. To me this is bench racing.
Last edited by bearfacedkiller on Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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xceptnl
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Re: Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Postby xceptnl » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:26 pm

I think the only model where I have openly acknowledged the need for more edge is the Barong and I plan to have that corrected with a regrind soon.

I think perhaps you had a few knives that dont meet the average in your chart, however some models like those below are closer to competing in your matrix.

Southard: .435 ratio
Positron: .420 ratio

These are just the first two that.came to mind and I crunched the numbers to confirm. I am sure many more can be found.
Image
sal wrote: .... even today, we design a knife from the edge out!
*Landon*

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xceptnl
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Re: Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Postby xceptnl » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:30 pm

Many others like:

D'allara
Caly 3.5
Chinook 4.

All exceed the 40% ratio
Image
sal wrote: .... even today, we design a knife from the edge out!
*Landon*

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abbazaba
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Re: Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Postby abbazaba » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:30 pm

Being a metrics guy I should enjoy this topic, but honestly never understood the significance of it, especially when taking about a knife you love. Do you want them to change the DF2?

Indoril
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Re: Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Postby Indoril » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:33 pm

bearfacedkiller wrote:Your metric picked three backlocks and a knife with a choil. Spyderco likes both. You will want to look at knives that lack those features. A backlock requires a kick to prevent the blade from touching the back spacer. Unless that kick is omitted a backlock will never compare favorably to other lock types. It has nothing to do with the flipper. It has to do with the lack of a choil and the lock choice.

You want a Spydie with no choil that is not a backlock. Most of those are not in house designs. The Mantra is one. It is discontinued but take a look at the Memory. It is a bit bigger but the Pattada is an in house design with a great ratio too. They are collabs but maybe the Slysz Bowie and also the Southard.

I recognize that this is valid concern for many and they are entitled to that opinion. To me this is bench racing. They make tools that flat out work.
Wow, these are all very interesting and unique models. Thank you. However these seem to be the exception rather than the rule, which of course there is no problem with, but it would be nice if they could take some inspiration from these to incorporate into their low/mid range lineups. I must say I do enjoy Spyderco's lockbacks; I think they've mastered how to make a good one

One other example is the Baby Jess Horn. It's interesting because it is a lock back and has a very similar edge length to the Delica, but is almost a full inch shorter when closed! It is a very nice one and i wish I could afford it

Indoril
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Re: Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Postby Indoril » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:40 pm

abbazaba wrote:Being a metrics guy I should enjoy this topic, but honestly never understood the significance of it, especially when taking about a knife you love. Do you want them to change the DF2?
Yes. I hope the Dragonfly 3 will either have more cutting edge, be more compact, or both. The DF2 is a great little knife but when you compare its specs to that of the famed Flash 1 it falls short in a few areas.
But a the end of the day, if you are happy with a knife then that's all that matters!

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bearfacedkiller
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Re: Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Postby bearfacedkiller » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:43 pm

Spyderco's value line out of china has a bunch of liner locks without choils that should offer better ratios. :) Not sure if they work for you but they may be close. They are in house designs.

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-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Holland
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Re: Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Postby Holland » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:51 pm

kwselke wrote:It not the length that counts, it's how you use it.
Hahahah :D
-Spencer

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Halfneck
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Re: Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Postby Halfneck » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:56 pm

Last post in 2013. You didn't just leave under another name after calling us all shills did you?

Indoril
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Re: Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Postby Indoril » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:05 pm

Halfneck wrote:Last post in 2013. You didn't just leave under another name after calling us all shills did you?
Um... no? This is my only account. And I don't see the relevance of when my last post was.

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Re: Where Spyderco Knives Fall Short

Postby jabba359 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:18 pm

Indoril wrote:
Halfneck wrote:Last post in 2013. You didn't just leave under another name after calling us all shills did you?
Um... no? This is my only account. And I don't see the relevance of when my last post was.
I don't see the relevance either.

That said, I really have never had an issue with the blade length/cutting edge to handle ratio other than the Barong xceptnl mentions. That one should have had a lot more edge on it.
-Kyle

:spyder:
Latest arrivals: DLC M4 Shaman, Opus, Q Ball

http://www.spydiewiki.com


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