[Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

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standy99
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Re: [Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

Postby standy99 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:19 am

The great thing with Spydercos is there is so many blade lengths.
Old school rule of better to be safe than sorry

3" law carry a 2.5"
2.5" law carry a 2"

Last thing a busy law enforcement officer would enjoy is someone with a knife protesting over 1/20 of a inch ;)
Last last thing would be having to pay a lawyer :mad: ( that's a lot of the knife budget )
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Re: [Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

Postby spyderwolf » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:47 am

You guys should work the issue on the other end.How about trying to change the idiotic laws,instead of shortening the blades?
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Re: [Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

Postby DougC-3 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:08 am

Cheddarnut wrote:The only person that measures things concealed in my pants is me, so its a non issue over here. Not a legal one anyhow.
Where is the chuckle emoticon :confused:

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Last edited by DougC-3 on Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

Postby Termite Toothpick » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:08 am

Cheddarnut wrote:The only person that measures things concealed in my pants is me, so its a non issue over here. Not a legal one anyhow.
That's sad :eek:
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Re: [Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

Postby Doc Dan » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:26 pm

Northglenn500 wrote:I think what the OP is saying is, document the actual blade length on the on-line catalog. Then, when an officer looks up the knife to verify the blade length of what he/she believes to be a 3" knife is actually listed at 2.95", and is therefore not considered an illegal knife. In Colorado, most municipal, as well as the state criminal statutes state "3.5 inches or longer.." Having it listed by the manufacturer as 3.45 would go a long way towards helping those who have to talk to the Police.
This is the way I see it. It would be safer. In fact, this may work in your favor as you can show that you purposely were carrying a knife advertized to be less than the legal limit, in my opinion, and receive the benefit of the doubt.

However, for marketing Spyderco may want to use the higher rounder numbers. Think of it this way, you market a 3.1/2 in blade and someone else markets a 3.45 inch blade. More people may be drawn psychologically to the 3.5". In retail, if you post a sign that says "Suits, Buy 3 and get them for $33 each" and another rack that has a sign that says,"Suits, buy 3 for $99" this last one will sell out faster.
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Re: [Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

Postby bearfacedkiller » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:22 am

I don't think that any cop is gonna pull out his cell phone and start looking up the listed specs for a knife. I have also never read a knife law that said anything about factory specs, only actual length. The cop will measure it, make a decision and leave up to the court to settle. When you get to court they aren't gonna care about specs either, only actual measurements.

In many places it is just a fine so talking about getting a lawyer doesn't make sense there. The lawyer will cost more than the fine so just pay the fine. It you live somewhere that could give you a misdemeanor or felony for it then I would not be cutting it that close. Just be cautious and carry something that is clearly under the limit. It ain't worth it. Cops don't carry precision instruments for measuring blades. Don't leave it up to a guy with a tape measure or a ruler to measure to within 1/20 of an inch.
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sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: [Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

Postby The Deacon » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:06 am

bearfacedkiller wrote:I don't think that any cop is gonna pull out his cell phone and start looking up the listed specs for a knife. I have also never read a knife law that said anything about factory specs, only actual length. The cop will measure it, make a decision and leave up to the court to settle. When you get to court they aren't gonna care about specs either, only actual measurements.

In many places it is just a fine so talking about getting a lawyer doesn't make sense there. The lawyer will cost more than the fine so just pay the fine. It you live somewhere that could give you a misdemeanor or felony for it then I would not be cutting it that close. Just be cautious and carry something that is clearly under the limit. It ain't worth it. Cops don't carry precision instruments for measuring blades. Don't leave it up to a guy with a tape measure or a ruler to measure to within 1/20 of an inch.
Truth be told, a lot of cops probably still use the 4 fingers = 3" method.
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Re: [Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

Postby The Mastiff » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:44 am

Truth be told, a lot of cops probably still use the 4 fingers = 3" method.
I wouldn't bet against that. People do strange things and laws don't figure into what people know they know. I had a young woman try to tell me I can't mail a pocket knife through usps last week. I asked her to check the regs on that because I have been doing it for 40 ish years. She went in to the back room where she thought I couldn't see her and stood there fixing her hair for maybe 45 seconds. She then came back and told me she had checked and it was ok.

:)

They haven't changed the laws have they? Have I been wrong these last 40 years? Yeah, I know the girl didn't check and didn't care, to be honest, but it still got me thinking.

Have I been knowing what I know for over 40 years and been wrong the whole time?

Should I care?

:o

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Re: [Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

Postby sal » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:21 pm

You'll have to accept it. whether or not you care is up to you. I find that change is the only constant. I'm wrong in my beliefs often. When I was in school, humans had 48 chromosomes and the dinosaurs were killed by an ice age. It seems knife laws are changing everywhere all of the time. You can't step into the same river twice. SSOOoooo, the older you get, the less you know and the more you are wrong. ;)

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Re: [Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

Postby DougC-3 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:18 pm

I've even sent several to Canada. Hope that's OK. I declared them properly, as "camping tools" or "kitchen tools." ;)
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Re: [Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

Postby Evil D » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:09 am

I keep seeing this thread, and every time I read the title, it makes me think of how "gun control" laws work. In other words, they don't. It's the same with knife laws. Making something legal won't prevent laws from being broke or prevent people from getting in trouble, and making a knife "technically legal" won't keep you out of trouble when you break the law with a knife. Maybe they should start making cars that will only go as fast as the speed limit, then nobody ever gets a speeding ticket?
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Re: [Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

Postby JohnAPA » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:24 am

I wonder how a court would measure a blade?

Tip to back?
Tip to back of pivot?
Tip to center of pivot?
Tip to front of pivot?
Tip to handle?
Sharpened edge on a straight line?
Sharpened edge including curvature?

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Re: [Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

Postby greencobra » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:04 am

Evil D wrote: Maybe they should start making cars that will only go as fast as the speed limit, then nobody ever gets a speeding ticket?
this might not be far fetched and not too far off. it won't be a full time thing but something set by the owner, like a scroll thru the computer and be password set.

back on topic, my area has some strange laws governing knives. it starts with it's legal to own almost anything, it's carrying that trips you up. but knives stated as dangerous weapons cannot be sold in state yet it's legal to purchase out of state and transport back to your home. then there's transport and carry laws of these "dangerous weapons." they can't be carried under your control on your person but need to be transported in a lock box or locked in the trunk.

i've yet to know of anyone stopped and questioned for carrying a knife no matter what size it is. the fun begins when you get involved in other things where you may be arrested and then they just tack on weapons charges for your knives being carried. myself, a quick anecdote here, i only have reason to go into the local police station when my ltc needs to be renewed. there's a no weapon policy when going in there. i've gone in with a giant buck knife in a belt sheath and 2 or 3 pocket clips showing out of various pants pockets and no one raises an eye brow.

it's hard to find rhyme or reason for enforcement but frankly, if you're not a menacing individual known to police you're good to go it seems. but leave the state say to nyc...beware.

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Re: [Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

Postby bearfacedkiller » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:01 am

JohnAPA wrote:I wonder how a court would measure a blade?

Tip to back?
Tip to back of pivot?
Tip to center of pivot?
Tip to front of pivot?
Tip to handle?
Sharpened edge on a straight line?
Sharpened edge including curvature?
Every thing I have ever read has said from the tip of the blade to the closest part of the handle to the tip. I have not seen any law or heard of any measurement being taken based on the amount of sharpened edge.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: [Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

Postby bearfacedkiller » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:08 am

greencobra wrote: back on topic, my area has some strange laws governing knives. it starts with it's legal to own almost anything, it's carrying that trips you up. but knives stated as dangerous weapons cannot be sold in state yet it's legal to purchase out of state and transport back to your home. then there's transport and carry laws of these "dangerous weapons." they can't be carried under your control on your person but need to be transported in a lock box or locked in the trunk.

i've yet to know of anyone stopped and questioned for carrying a knife no matter what size it is. the fun begins when you get involved in other things where you may be arrested and then they just tack on weapons charges for your knives being carried. myself, a quick anecdote here, i only have reason to go into the local police station when my ltc needs to be renewed. there's a no weapon policy when going in there. i've gone in with a giant buck knife in a belt sheath and 2 or 3 pocket clips showing out of various pants pockets and no one raises an eye brow.

it's hard to find rhyme or reason for enforcement but frankly, if you're not a menacing individual known to police you're good to go it seems. but leave the state say to nyc...beware.
I grew up on the north shore and am pretty familiar with the knife laws in your area. Interestingly, in an area with such strict laws, often a 2.5 inch limit, there are is no limit if involved in a sporting activity. Colorado is the same way and I believe many states make exceptions for that as well. As a kid nothing mattered to me more than fishing and I practically lived on the various piers and breakwaters between Boston and Gloucester. I would ride my bike all over the place with fishing poles sticking out of a backpack and either a Buck110, a Sharpfinger or some other fixed blade on my hip. All perfectly legal and nobody ever said a word.

Maybe if you carry around a few fish hooks and a spool of fishing line you can just say you were on your way to go fishing? :D :p
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: [Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

Postby greencobra » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:20 pm

bearfacedkiller wrote:Maybe if you carry around a few fish hooks and a spool of fishing line you can just say you were on your way to go fishing? :D :p
lol, yeah...a standard joke around these parts.

i just spent 3 days looking into massachusetts knife laws. they're pretty clever, an immense paragraph that's all one sentence, and it includes all those funky asian martial arts things. crazy stuff.

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Re: [Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

Postby bearfacedkiller » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:34 pm

Ah yes, the run on sentence, a standard practice in legal language. Who needs punctuation anyway?!

I always have been in awe of the juxtaposition of being both deliberately vague but also making sure not to leave anything out. Making sure they have all their bases covered but also still being able to interpret it however they see fit. All of this done with a college level vocabulary and middle school grammar.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: [Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

Postby anycal » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:58 pm

It's like if you are going to have a baseball bat in your car, you better have a mitt and a ball.
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Re: [Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

Postby RamZar » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:50 pm

The common blade length measurement is American Knife and Tool Institute's Protocol for Measuring Knife Blade Length:

"Where a statute, regulation or ordinance refers to knife blade length, the measurement shall be the straight line extending from the tip of the blade to the forward-most aspect of the hilt or handle."

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https://www.akti.org/wp-content/uploads ... otocol.pdf
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Re: [Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

Postby SF Native » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:23 pm

Evil D wrote:I keep seeing this thread, and every time I read the title, it makes me think of how "gun control" laws work. In other words, they don't. It's the same with knife laws. Making something legal won't prevent laws from being broke or prevent people from getting in trouble, and making a knife "technically legal" won't keep you out of trouble when you break the law with a knife. Maybe they should start making cars that will only go as fast as the speed limit, then nobody ever gets a speeding ticket?
I honestly think these laws are used as a way of getting people off the street if they can't prove the real crime. How often are parolees sent back on "weapons charge"? Seems like Al Capone law. If you can't prove the hard stuff, pile on the little stuff like carrying a knife that is 1/4" too
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