Sharpening Spyderco on Water Stones

[nicolaidenmark]

Hi all,

I would like to apologize beforehand as this topic will have some questions similar or identical to those found in my "New Pivot Screw / S110V" thread. However, since this thread will concentrate more on sharpening equipment I considered it OK to make it seperate from the other.

First:

I'm not very good at sharpening and I don't have a lot experience with blades. Before getting my Manix 2 I was more into fixed blades and tried different Fällkniven models. With one of the Fallkniven knives I bought their DC4 a small, portable diamond and ceramic pocket stone. I worked on the laminated VG10 blades but it was / small and the diamond as well as the gold coloured coating wore off the stone way to fast. The diamond side, according to Fällkniven was 25 micron but, as with the Spyderco bench stones, no real grit was indicated for the ceramic.

Fast forward and I decided to purchase Japanese water stones http://www.naniwa-abrasive.com/product/ ... ofessional. Essentialy the new Chosera line, the Professional is said to have an improved bonding agent, however, as I have not owned the Chosera line I cannot compare them. I have the 400, 1,000, 3,000 and 5,000 grit stones.

They seem to work and I like the size of a true bench stone as I think it's easier to work with than pocket sized stones. I like the idea of sharpening the old, traditional Japanese way although the water bit can be a bit messy and impractical at times.

Whilst I do state that the Professionals seem to work well, I hardest stell I've had them cut has been the lam. VG10 at a RHC at 59. I have purchased two Tojiro kitchen knives also made from lam. VG10 and they both have an indicated hardness at 60. I have yet to sharpen either of these on the stones. However, for some reason one of the Tojiro didn't come as sharp as the other so I strop it after use using this, green alumina oxide compund:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-honi ... und-477070

Axminster told me the avarage scratch pattern of this compound is .5 micron.

The knives will not slice a tomato perfectly, however, it remains sharp enough for other kitchen tasks.

So, loving my Manix 2 as much as I do (apart from its blade not beeing completely centered, which drives me crazy, I figured it would be fun to try out the S110V vers. However, I then read threads and watched Youtube videos about something called "carbide tear out". To my understanding, if the carbides are torn out (i.e. rounded off instead of cut?) the knife won't be as sharp as if the carbides are cut. It apears, however, that most people use ceramic and diamond for this steel.


So my question is: Can I sharpen S110V, S30v and other "super steels" using my water stones or do I have to get ceramic and diamond stones?

Also, as per above, my finest stone is 5,000 grit but I read people on here estimating the Spyderco EF stones being perhaps "merely" 4,000. and being extremely happy with those. I would have thought that on such an enthusiastic forum, more people would be aiming for "the sky is the limit".

Thanks,


EDIT: I have read that these stones are magnesium bound. Is that good for super steels?

[Baron Mind]

Bump

[Deadboxhero]

Bump

Yes you can use water stones.

It will be faster and easier to get a sharp edge with the diamond and ceramic on those steels though.

With the Tojiro and the tomato cutting it sounds like you overpolished the edge and crushed the Apex due to slight angle inconsistencies adding up on the different grits and too much pressure added at the final grit. Or it could be you simply didn't make a burr to begin with.

Tomato slicing requires a very crisp apex. It can't be smooth or convexed.

The Naniwas professionals are a " Magnesia" bond
https://www.premiermagnesia.com/cpg/mag ... ments-news

Naniwa use a proprietary blend and the stone is pressed with intense pressure and slow cured without firing.

It's a very strong bond and dishes very slowly but is splash and go only so don't soak them in water for long periods or it will cause leeching and cracking.

Also dry them slowly.

The cheaper Naniwa super stones use a resin type bond and are much softer but have the same ceramic abrasive in less volume.
They finish better but are prone to gouging if you angles are bad and will dish faster AND cut slower.

I would not go past 1000 grit for S30v and I'd probably stay lower for s110v and jump to a strop.

Id recommend 1 um diamond compound over the waxy based chromium oxide.

It will help produce a crisper edge with less rounding.

The waxy based compounds are for buffing wheel.

[Baron Mind]

Bump

Yes you can use water stones.

It will be faster and easier to get a sharp edge with the diamond and ceramic on those steels though.

With the Tojiro and the tomato cutting it sounds like you overpolished the edge and crushed the Apex due to slight angle inconsistencies adding up on the different grits and too much pressure added at the final grit. Or it could be you simply didn't make a burr to begin with.

Tomato slicing requires a very crisp apex. It can't be smooth or convexed.

The Naniwas professionals are a " Magnesia" bond
https://www.premiermagnesia.com/cpg/mag ... ments-news

Naniwa use a proprietary blend and the stone is pressed with intense pressure and slow cured without firing.

It's a very strong bond and dishes very slowly but is splash and go only so don't soak them in water for long periods or it will cause leeching and cracking.

Also dry them slowly.

The cheaper Naniwa super stones use a resin type bond and are much softer but have the same ceramic abrasive in less volume.
They finish better but are prone to gouging if you angles are bad and will dish faster AND cut slower.

I would not go past 1000 grit for S30v and I'd probably stay lower for s110v and jump to a strop.

Id recommend 1 um diamond compound over the waxy based chromium oxide.

It will help produce a crisper edge with less rounding.

The waxy based compounds are for buffing wheel.

Thanks Shawn. Not my original post but I appreciate the information.

[arty]

I have Shaptons, but normally reserve them for tool steel blades. I prefer natural novaculite for carbon steels, but not for high chromium steel.
I recommend Spyderco ceramic bench stones for VG10 and kitchen knives. I don't go above the fine stone (~1200 grit) for most kitchen knives. If I want a finer edge, I use a strop. I wouldn't use .5 micron green compound, as I am allergic to it. You don't need this fine an abrasive for a strop for kitchen knives. I actually use 1200 grit valve grinding compound on a strop for kitchen knives.
If you want to cleanly slice tomato, you don't need to go beyond a 1200 grit stone, like the extra fine DMT Diamond stone or the fine Spyderco ceramic, depending on the finish you want. An aggressive edge is good for veggies.
I would use very high grit stones for wood working plane irons or carving tools, but not for my kitchen uses.
Note that diamond stones are great for hard high chrome, high vanadium steels like S30V. They are not needed for VG10. You need light pressure with these diamond stones or you may round the edge, generate a wire edge, or damage the stones and dislodge the diamonds.