Is it worth stropping Spydies? ... and something about Sharpmaker hard stones

[Jumpin'Spyder]

Hi all :spyder: ,
sometimes I have difficulties to reach a razor sharp edge with my Tri-Angle Sharpmaker only, mainly with the hardest steels, namely CPM-S110V, ZDP-189 etc...
At the moment I have only the standard kit and I'm planning to buy Diamond or CBN...BTW can you suggest the best Sharpmaker stones for these steels??? :)

Going deeply into this subject, I'm reading a lot of different opinions about stropping or not EDC knives, so I decided to ask here if experts do stropping for their Spydercos.

For this purpose I've seen a kit for stropping from Flexcut (hope I can say it here...otherwise I will erase, sorry) with both paddle and compound: I can have it easily here in Italy. What do you eventually think about this one??? :) May I go with it for a starter?

Thanks a lot as usual for your kindness and expertise :spyder: :spyder: :spyder:

[Skidoosh]

Yes. However, I have found not all steels respond in the same way to stropping. CTS-XHP really gets sharp with stropping, same with K390. S110V, not sure how helpful it really is.

[Skidoosh]

Double tap please delete

[Surfingringo]

The steels you mentioned will get hair whittling sharp with just the standard sharpmaker stones but this assumes you are starting with a well formed bevel and apex which is probably what is missing if you are struggling to get them razor sharp. I would strongly suggest starting with the diamond or cbn rods to reprofile. Once you have a clean new bevel and apex it is very easy to bring these steels to high levels of sharpness.

[Jumpin'Spyder]

@Surfingringo
I think you are possibly right! I surely need diamond or cbn rods for my SM :rolleyes:
I only have to choose between the two of them, but from what I read they are pretty the same, isn't it?
So I'll go for the cheaper one :D

[Sharp Guy]

@Surfingringo
I think you are possibly right! I surely need diamond or cbn rods for my SM :rolleyes:
I only have to choose between the two of them, but from what I read they are pretty the same, isn't it?
So I'll go for the cheaper one :D

I think Surfingringo's advice is right on the money!

My understanding is that the diamond and cbn rods are very similar in performance and price. I went with the cbn rods just to see how they worked. I also added some Moldmaster SiC stones that I clip to the SM rods. They do the job pretty well and give me more variety in grits. 4 different grits in sets of two cost me less than a set of SM diamond or cbn rods.

Also, I bought a strop block from Knives Plus and I've used it several times. I find it easier to just touch up with the SM medium or fine rods. They seem to work better too (for me). Now the strop basically lives in a drawer.

[mb1]

I couldn't live without my strop. Well you know what I mean...

I use the Knivesplus green. Great for touch ups/maintenance. I've never been able to whittle hair straight off the rods, probably because I'm not apexing like sensei Gringo noted. But I have whittled with Hap40 just using the browns + strop. Probably one of the reasons I like Hap40 so much.

Strops do require technique and practice. You can dull your edge on them, as well as do nothing to improve it, with bad technique. Similar to stones in that respect.

[ejames13]

An important component is what kind of compound the strop is loaded with. I have one strop loaded with the standard Alox compound and it works fine for more simple steels but really does nothing to something like M390. For those higher carbide steels I have another strop loaded with CBN compound and it works much better.

So yes, I find stropping makes a considerable difference as a last step. It really takes it from sharp to stupid sharp for me. I also find strops valuable for bringing back an edge that's slightly degraded. It's quicker than going to the stones if the blade just needs a light touch up.

[Evil D]

I've gotten away with using strops because too many people use them as a crutch to compensate for what they aren't doing on the stones, and they end up straightening out a burr instead of dealing with it properly.

[ZrowsN1s]

I'm a big fan of Strops with polishing compound. I have 600 grit down to .5 micron. My sharpening routine is usually this, I get a new knife, I reprofile it and get the edge all nice even and razor sharp. Then I strop a little bit through the whole range of strops, and that will usually give me an edge that will split a hair lengthwise. After that anytime the knife gets dull enough that it won't split a hair, I touch it up with a 600 grit paste (green compound) strop, until it's razor sharp again. After time stropping will convex your edge to the point that it gets razor sharp, but won't stay that way very long. Then It's time to start fresh and resharpen on the stones again. I've found I can go weeks without needing to sharpen my knife by just using the loaded strops (this is a big time saver for me, and I think LESS wear on the knife than sharpening it on stones every time it gets dull)
*a lot of stropping (and sharpening for that matter) is technique, and it's hard to teach over the internet. You just have to practice and get a FEEL for it (and experiment). You can sit two people down with the same knife and equipment and only one of them will be able to get you a razor sharp edge, and the only difference is their technique.

[VashHash]

I usually strop on bare leather after I've finished sharpening. Maybe it's mental but i swear it makes them sharper. From what I've seen though it actually works. I've stropped H1, VG-10, S30V, 154CM, M390, K390, S110V, S35VN, S90V, super blue, ZDP-189, etc, etc and found it improved all of them for initial sharpness. Doesn't do much for the working edge though.

[vivi]

It can help, especially with certain steels, but you want to get a knife sharp enough to shave off the sharp maker stones before moving to the strop.

The steels you mentioned will get hair whittling sharp with just the standard sharp maker stones but this assumes you are starting with a well formed bevel and apex which is probably what is missing if you are struggling to get them razor sharp. I would strongly suggest starting with the diamond or cbn rods to reprofile. Once you have a clean new bevel and apex it is very easy to bring these steels to high levels of sharpness.

Yep, this makes a big difference with any steel. Having a fresh, even apex makes a world of difference.

I like extra course diamond bench stones for resetting the entire bevel. They're faster than the sharp maker rods if you're comfortable free handing. I'll use them to give my new spydercos a thinner edge, or to reset a users edge once it starts to get thick after repeated touch-ups. I take most knives pretty thin, aiming for 8-10 degrees per side.

From there the apex is incredibly thin and takes little time to refine. I'll use the sharp maker with the white rods and hit the corner a few times, then the flats 8-10 times per side. Then I free hand finish on a Spyderco ultrafine stone. At that point the knife should catch hair above the skin in either direction and whittle individual hairs.

If I'm leaving a toothier, more aggressive edge, I'll either finish with the X coarse diamond stone or sharp maker browns.

If I strop, it's only 1 or 2 swipes per side. I feel the edge left by a stone, even an UF, is more aggressive than the edge a strop gives. At least on my leather strop loaded with green buffing compound. I usually do one pass per side to refine the burr a bit, then leave it be.

[toomzz]

Hi, I don't consider myself an expert, but I do have my own experiences with stropping knives, not just from Spyderco.
My trick and consideration is to get a Tormek leather stropping wheel and load it with white Tormek stropping paste. Just lead the edge, both side, along the spinning wheel and you are done. I have a second wheel loaded with that yellow Flexcut crayon, but the Tormek works much better.
I finish both stainless and toolsteels, as well as all my leather cuttingtools and once you get the hang in finding the right angle on the edge your knives get eerie sharp, try it!

[Jumpin'Spyder]

Thanks to all for now!

I appreciate as always your contribution coming from your experience and I learn a lot of new things.
I don't know if I'll go for stropping but surely I understand that I need the hard stones for reprofiling on SM: I prefer to use it instead of bench stones, it's easier and I'm not a great hands-free sharpener :D
Maybe I could think about that Flexcut kit I've seen, just to try stropping...but only after a good edge with Sharpmaker, obviously reprofiled with diamond as many of you suggested :)
I'm just waiting for my first HAP-40 (a Meerkat) and it deserves the best :cool:

I continue to follow the Forum and you all :spyder:

[Surfingringo]

Though not as fast as larger benchstones, the sharpmaker+diamond rods can be more efficient at reprofiling than many believe. The best way to reprofile on the SM is to work one side at a time. Use quick up and down strokes, never removing the the edge from the stone. I've done some big reprofile jobs on the sharpmaker and none of them have been too time consuming. Just a few days ago I reprofiled my Cruwear Millie. It had a 20 dps microbevel that had eaten well into the 15 dps edge. I reprofiled the entire edge to 10 dps (using a sm rod under the middle of the sharpmaker base). So basically I took a 20 dps edge that is probably over 25 thousandths behind the edge down to 10 degrees per side. The whole job took less than an hour using the technique mentioned above.

[chuck_roxas45]

Hi, I don't consider myself an expert, but I do have my own experiences with stropping knives, not just from Spyderco.
My trick and consideration is to get a Tormek leather stropping wheel and load it with white Tormek stropping paste. Just lead the edge, both side, along the spinning wheel and you are done. I have a second wheel loaded with that yellow Flexcut crayon, but the Tormek works much better.
I finish both stainless and toolsteels, as well as all my leather cuttingtools and once you get the hang in finding the right angle on the edge your knives get eerie sharp, try it!

Using power tools won't be just stropping IMHO, no matter whether they're called stropping wheels.

What would be the difference between stropping and grinding? I'm guessing it's just the rate of taking material away. Power tools, even with no compound will take material away much faster than a fine stone by hand. It's no longer just stropping.

[ZrowsN1s]

I'm just waiting for my first HAP-40 (a Meerkat) and it deserves the best :cool:

Good news, Hap 40 is one of the easiest steels to get sharp I've ever personally used. Also, if you want to ease your way into stropping, you can strop a blade on the kind of cardboard/particle board you find on the back of legal notepad. You don't need a leather strop or fancy polish, just a stiff piece of cardboard and a flat surface.

[FCM415]

I've gotten away with using strops because too many people use them as a crutch to compensate for what they aren't doing on the stones, and they end up straightening out a burr instead of dealing with it properly.

That's my problem right there. My skill level remains low. I get by with the diamond stone on the SM and strop after the white/brown stones. I never should have sold my Edge Pro. SM's a great touch up, can't be without it but reprofiling and heavy removal I dont have the patience for it. Need to get a new EP!

[Wanimator]

After I get a real nice crisp bevel I have started to use the Sharpmaker as part of my honing process. Fine-Ultra fine - finer grits on strop. I'd use a toothier edge but I'm getting really good results in terms of functional sharpness and edge retention. Plus if I want tooth I'm just the diamond or medium rods away.

[Jazz]

... and they end up straightening out a burr instead of dealing with it properly.

That's a huge thing in learning to sharpen properly. The burr/wire edge. That and consistent angles and making sure they actually come together to an edge/apex.

I touch up on a sharpening steel a lot to straighten any rolling between sharpenings. I do this backwards, like stropping. Sometimes I strop, but only a wee bit after I've already gotten it sharp.