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Sal's Brain Children

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:25 pm
by plumlum
It's hard to deny that the Dragonfly has been a cornerstone in the small knife line for all these years. The blade shape and the ergos make for such a hard working tool. I always wondered what it would be like to have a bigger Dragonfly. With my latest purchase, the Native 5, I think maybe I now know.

This is a question for Sal but maybe someone else can answer... Was this in fact the answer and evolution to a bigger Dragonfly?

Fine pair these two :spyder:
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Re: Sal's Brain Children

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:35 pm
by bpahk
I've always thought it belonged in the calypso family. It's very similar to the caly jr. It's like a refined version of it or slightly modified kopa

Re: Sal's Brain Children

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:05 pm
by Nate
Love those scales on your Native, Cuscadi?

Also, agree with bpahk, but have never owned a Dragonfly to compare them directly.

Re: Sal's Brain Children

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:47 pm
by plumlum
bpahk wrote:I've always thought it belonged in the calypso family. It's very similar to the caly jr. It's like a refined version of it or slightly modified kopa

That's a solid contender also for an evolved Dragonfly. Maybe some spydie veterans who really know the timelines of release dates etc etc will weigh in here.
For some reason I see the Caly's as having much more of a slender gents feel and enlongated blades. In the hand the native and the dragonfly both fell like pitbulls and the forward choiles are both 50/50 with similar blade to handle ratio's. The angular leaf shapes and swedges are very close as well.

There might be other modified leaf shapes to consider here too... thinking... *metal crushing noises*

Re: Sal's Brain Children

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:49 pm
by plumlum
Nate wrote:Love those scales on your Native, Cuscadi?

Also, agree with bpahk, but have never owned a Dragonfly to compare them directly.

Thanks, these are actual Fireside Co. Quite pleased with them so far.

Re: Sal's Brain Children

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:52 pm
by Evil D
Didn't the Native come first?

Re: Sal's Brain Children

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:41 pm
by Jazz
Pretty sure it's its own design.

Re: Sal's Brain Children

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:27 pm
by 40mm
This is my answer to a bigger Dragonfly. Salt 1 with a homemade choil.Imageimage by Six Pound Cat, on Flickr

Re: Sal's Brain Children

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:42 am
by VashHash
I don't really see these 2 as being derived from one another. Very different knives. Ergonomics and blade shapes are not even close.

Re: Sal's Brain Children

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:29 am
by sal
The dragonfly was designed to fill a space between the Delica and the Ladybug. The Native was designed to a request to design a knife for Walmart.

The Caly was a refinement of the Calypso.

sal

Re: Sal's Brain Children

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:49 am
by archangel
sal wrote:The dragonfly was designed to fill a space between the Delica and the Ladybug. The Native was designed to a request to design a knife for Walmart.
Interesting, since there's the imho important difference that the Dragonfly has a finger choil while the Delica does not. I wouldn't have expected they were related if this is different.

Also interesting to learn that the Native, which I imagine is one of the absolute highrunners in the entire catalogue, derived from such a request. You must be happy you followed this request! :)

Re: Sal's Brain Children

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:38 am
by plumlum
sal wrote:The dragonfly was designed to fill a space between the Delica and the Ladybug. The Native was designed to a request to design a knife for Walmart.

The Caly was a refinement of the Calypso.

sal
Thanks Sal, If you waited longer to weigh in we could have all made bigger fools of ourselves :D :D :D
Walmart. I would have never guessed. Well at least for me, the Native fills the roll of big brother to the Dragonfly very well. Grazie mille.

Re: Sal's Brain Children

Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:47 pm
by Knife Knut
I think it would be most accurate to say that they closely share design language.

Re: Sal's Brain Children

Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:16 pm
by elena86
I had a Native and sold it very fast.The lack of a thumb ramp felt awkward in my hand.A 3 incher Dfly would be the ultimate edc for me.

Re: Sal's Brain Children

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:53 am
by dplafoll
archangel wrote:
sal wrote:The dragonfly was designed to fill a space between the Delica and the Ladybug. The Native was designed to a request to design a knife for Walmart.
Interesting, since there's the imho important difference that the Dragonfly has a finger choil while the Delica does not. I wouldn't have expected they were related if this is different.

Also interesting to learn that the Native, which I imagine is one of the absolute highrunners in the entire catalogue, derived from such a request. You must be happy you followed this request! :)
The Dragonfly just about requires the choil to really get a good 4-finger grip on it in that short a handle. The LB/MB aren't going for a full grip so they don't need it, and the Delica has a fairly poor blade-to-handle ratio to get that full grip with no choil.

Re: Sal's Brain Children

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:45 am
by AccountDeletedUserRequest
plumlum wrote:For some reason I see the Caly's as having much more of a slender gents feel and enlongated blades. In the hand the native and the dragonfly both fell like pitbulls and the forward choiles are both 50/50 with similar blade to handle ratio's. The angular leaf shapes and swedges are very close as well.
But where the Native has a swell for the middle finger to grip, the Dragonfly is scooped out.

I never got along with the Dragonfly handle for that reason. Choil works good, and there's just enough handle for my pinky to come along for the ride, but my middle finger and ring finger have half the handle I'd like for them to be able to grip. Feels like someone whittled off a big chunk of handle to me.

Re: Sal's Brain Children

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:09 pm
by plumlum
Knife Knut wrote:I think it would be most accurate to say that they closely share design language.
Well put!

And I do actually like the thumb ramp delete on the native, because it has two different and effective grip choices. The thumb location is flexible while still having great purchase, where the dragonfly definitely needs it. To each their own however, the beauty of spyderco :)

Re: Sal's Brain Children

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:53 pm
by 40mm
Vivi, that's how I originally felt about the Dragonfly. Couldn't quite get the grip that I was accustomed to on other more "normal" shaped knives. Decided to give it another shot and found that a slight tweak in my hand position gave me a good,solid,and comfortable grip. Now it feels completely natural and the shape seems to give me MORE grip options that other knives. It's also probably has the smoothest action of any knife I've had now that I've taken it apart and got all the kinks out.
Vivi wrote:
plumlum wrote:For some reason I see the Caly's as having much more of a slender gents feel and enlongated blades. In the hand the native and the dragonfly both fell like pitbulls and the forward choiles are both 50/50 with similar blade to handle ratio's. The angular leaf shapes and swedges are very close as well.
But where the Native has a swell for the middle finger to grip, the Dragonfly is scooped out.

I never got along with the Dragonfly handle for that reason. Choil works good, and there's just enough handle for my pinky to come along for the ride, but my middle finger and ring finger have half the handle I'd like for them to be able to grip. Feels like someone whittled off a big chunk of handle to me.

Re: Sal's Brain Children

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:13 pm
by AccountDeletedUserRequest
40mm wrote:Vivi, that's how I originally felt about the Dragonfly. Couldn't quite get the grip that I was accustomed to on other more "normal" shaped knives. Decided to give it another shot and found that a slight tweak in my hand position gave me a good,solid,and comfortable grip. Now it feels completely natural and the shape seems to give me MORE grip options that other knives. It's also probably has the smoothest action of any knife I've had now that I've taken it apart and got all the kinks out.
Vivi wrote:
plumlum wrote:For some reason I see the Caly's as having much more of a slender gents feel and enlongated blades. In the hand the native and the dragonfly both fell like pitbulls and the forward choiles are both 50/50 with similar blade to handle ratio's. The angular leaf shapes and swedges are very close as well.
But where the Native has a swell for the middle finger to grip, the Dragonfly is scooped out.

I never got along with the Dragonfly handle for that reason. Choil works good, and there's just enough handle for my pinky to come along for the ride, but my middle finger and ring finger have half the handle I'd like for them to be able to grip. Feels like someone whittled off a big chunk of handle to me.
Next time I'm at a store that carries them I'll have to handle them. I know what you mean about giving designs second chances and playing around with the grip. I've recently been enjoying my Tasman Salt more often lately after changing how I grip it, and it has me considering a Salt 1. Could be the case with the Dragonfly. I feel like I must be doing something wrong with how popular it is.

Re: Sal's Brain Children

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:21 am
by plumlum
Vivi wrote:
40mm wrote:Vivi, Could be the case with the Dragonfly. I feel like I must be doing something wrong with how popular it is.
haha I feel the same way about the delica!