Pondering AEB-L

[Doc Dan]

I have been wondering why so many people, over the last couple of years, are yammering for a Spyderco or other brand of knife with AEB-L? AEB-L is the same as 13C26 used by Kershaw and many of these same people have dissed Kershaw's steels as not performing well (I know better). Is it all in a name? Does AEB-L sound more techy than 13C26 or something? Why not ask for 14C28N, which is an upgraded AEB-L?

[elena86]

AEB-L is a perfect low carbon steel for working blades if properly quenched.It takes a scalpel edge, has a very good edge stability and keeps it for more than a decent amount of time.AEB-L differs from other stainless steels in that it forms very small carbides when heat treated and has a very fine grain structure. Since the carbides are small, they are easier to sharpen, and since the grain is so fine, edge stability and toughness get a boost.I quote from Devin Thomas who uses this steel quite a lot: " AEB-L is more similar to a stainless 52100 than 440A." . I wonder why Spyderco is not using this still so far :confused:

Marius

[The Mastiff]

It will underwhelm some of the ones expecting super steel performance and who are bored with VG10, S30V and S110V. It performs more along the lines of Aus 8/8C and some others rather than the steels they are used to. It can take nice edges and can be decently tough for a stainless but it isn't overwhelming in anything.

If you are a knifemaker it is easy to grind and polish, heat treats pretty straight forward and really gains not much from subzero quenches so a lot of them go without. I've often thought these reasons are some of the incitements for knifemakers who are tired of really high abrasive wear steels. The extra time and cost of belts adds to the PITA factor of super steels. AEBL does have good edge stability for a stainless, so there's that.

For me it's an ok steel but for sure not a favorite. I would choose it over 440C due to it's better edge stability and toughness but that's about it.

joe

[Surfingringo]

I have never used any but my guess is it will be similar to Lc200n in performance. If that were the case (again, it's just a guess) then I would definitely prefer Lc200n for its stainless properties.

[anagarika]

From all bluntcut's test blades, his AEBL @ 64HRC ground thin is the only stainless I have. Pretty corrosion resistant I'd say, though definitely not H1 or LC200N level.
I'm guessing people wanna try stainless 52100. :cool:
Or because Cliff keeps mentioning it based on Landes' tests... :confused:

[mb1]

If I didn't own any, "stainless 52100" would sell me on it a lot more than VG-10 or Aus-8 comparisons.

I just got my 3rd knife in this steel (how'd that happen??), but have yet to use it (waittting for wife's b-day...8" custom Chef). I have a custom parer and one other thin-edged custom. My feedback is only anecdotal, but I guess the ease of screaming-sharp sharpening and edge stability mentioned are reasons I've been pleased so far. The toughness combined with thin edges seems to work well in the kitchen.

[wrdwrght]

AEB-L's allure for me is an edge that can be easily made razor-thin yet kept stable if that steel has been properly heat-treated. Big "if", so I understand.

Is the reality of this promise any different than other promising steels that tempt us? 52100 or 13C26 or even 14C28N, for instance. Dunno. That's what I want to find out.

Does my curiosity mean I'm dissatisfied with "just" VG10, S30V, and H1, as another thread has asked, or, indeed, my favored M4 or M390/204P? Not for a minute.

[Cheddarnut]

Some people are unAEB-L to appreciate its qualities.

[Doc Dan]

AEB-L is 13C26 and that is not a bad steel, but not a super steel by any means. It is not as stainless as some steels and that is why Kershaw asked Sandvik to upgrade it and they came out with 14C28N that is far more rust resistant (N you know). AEB-L/13C26 is a razor blade steel. Edge holding is good, but not as good as 14C28N, in my experience. Neither has as much carbon as 440C. Here is a comparison.
http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/st ... hrn=1&gm=0

[wrdwrght]

Some people are unAEB-L to appreciate its qualities.

:)

[Zenith]

Its a good steel when done right.

Because AEB-L keeps popping up in several threads I'll post how I do my treatment of this steel.

I highly recommend that you make 5 test coupons, heat the first one to 1900'f and plate quench, second to 1925'f, third one to 1950'f, 1975'f, 2000'f. This will give you a starting place for what temperature to use.

Repeat this test with 5 new test coupons except do a sub-zero or cryo quench after the plate quench. With each set of test coupons measure the HRC and you should find a peak hardness at a specific temperature for your furnace. It is also good to break each of the test coupons and see grain size and toughness differences.

All furnaces are different, each will have a different soak time and or temperature required, even two ovens of the same make can be different.

I prequench at 1725'f after soaking for 20 minutes, plate quench. I also use 321 foil to wrap blades in.

Second quench I run two ovens one at 1550' and the other at 1950-1975'. Place blade in preheat oven and stablize temp, soak for 15 minutes move to austenitze temp oven and plate quench after 8 minutes in furnace.

Cryo quench right after plate quench, continuous cool down. With an extended cryo there will be some nano sized carbides that precipitate, slightly better wear resistance with a slight decrease in toughness.

This is a very simple steel, don't try and complicate the heat teatment. See attatchments from Uddeholm. The carbon content will vary some on this steel, I've seen 64.5 hrc on some batches but not all get this hard. Happy testing and heat treating.

Hoss

[Evil D]

I tend to enjoy steels that really excel at particular things, so much like 52100 I'm very interested in this steel. I don't think it could every be my main every day carry steel, but I would still enjoy using it. I've really moved away from comparing steels to each other for any other reason than to have an idea of how they perform. I've moved away from the whole "good, better, best" mentality. All good, just different.

[Nate]

I have never used any but my guess is it will be similar to Lc200n in performance. If that were the case (again, it's just a guess) then I would definitely prefer Lc200n for its stainless properties.

I have a few knives in AEB-L or 13C26, but with standard commercial heat treats vs. the more "ideal" processing I've read about.

No LC200N experience yet, but it is also my understanding that it should be similar to AEB-L, (though I reserve the right to be completely wrong lol).

It seems the trade-offs may be that AEB-L has a smidge higher hardness, wear resistance potential, and should cost a bit less, while LC200N has greater toughness and corrosion resistance, but may be more expensive.

[Halfneck]

I have one knife in AEB-L - LT Wright Small Northern Hunter. Took a nice edge and worked great on my last camping trip. Maybe technically 2 knives as I own a Kershaw Skyline in Sandvik 13C26. I like the steel, and it is easy to get a nice polished edge on it. Edge holding is more than good for my day to day knife needs. Still my favorite stainless steel is CPM 154. Of course as I've gotten older I have gotten simpler in choices. My only knife purchase at BLADE this year was a custom paring/utility knife from PB&J made from repurposed saw blades.

[Doc Dan]

AEB-L is a real simple steel. It only has 4 elements, and it has about as much Mn as C. I think the Sandvik version, 13C26, might be a bit better because they seem to have greater purity, from what I have read. I know their steels perform above their apparent level.

[Cujobob]

14C28N is not necessarily an improved version of AEB-L. AEB-L is supposed to have the best carbide structure if I remember correctly and 14C28N added a bit of edge retention at the cost of edge stability (slight cost, both are low carbide steels). This is my understanding but it's been a while since reading up on it.

I have knives in both AEB-L and 14C28N, I love the steel. It's better at higher hardness from my experience (hardness 62-63 for AEB-L).

[mb1]

I looked back at my emails for my parer order. The maker had been running lower hardness, but upped the HT to 62.5 after doing some testing with a 6" camp knife. He batoned and carved oak and pine, and cut 4 gauge battery cable with no chipping, just slight rolling. Don't know the geometry of that edge, but it obviously wasn't a kitchen knife. Thought those were some interesting notes as to toughness.

[Tdog]

I have two knives in AEB-L by different makers. I understand both were heat treated by Peters. Neither have had hard use, primarily in the kitchen. Knives maintain sharpness and edge integrity well, and show no signs of staining. A good stainless that gets screaming sharp...very easily, also polishes nicely. Yes, I would like to see some knives by Spyderco in AEB-L, I would prefer however to see additional blades in LC200N (Ti Millie).

[qazy]

Well HTed AEB-L should able to hold very acute and stable angle with high polish. I would say that's the biggest advantage.
I am not sure this is something an EDC or hard work folder/knife will greatly benefit of.

Something like gyuto, razor, scalpels and alike will be my fist choices for this steel.

[gunmike1]

I'd really like to get a near-zero ground slicer from Spyderco in this steel. If the Nilakka was released in AEB-L instead of S30V there probably wouldn't have had many of the bad chipping problems that happened.