Para 2 as EDDC

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ZrowsN1s
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

#81

Post by ZrowsN1s »

chuck_roxas45 wrote:I choose a teacup for EDDC...

https://youtu.be/16RdEtQL9EQ
Lulz,
I'd just use my Blue Steel :rolleyes:
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fivesense
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

#82

Post by fivesense »

spyderwolf wrote:
fivesense wrote:
spyderwolf wrote:Without a serious training,which i dont think you have,you should not even dream to carry a knife for SD.Delicas and Enduras are the best choices,due to the fact they had a trainer version.
Granted, after I've dispatched the assailant with my copper pointed 9mm, I may still want to carve him up for dinner.
I thought we were talking about sd,not about your diet.
:D

I find that portraying myself as a cannibal often acts as a self-defense deterrent.
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

#83

Post by spyderwolf »

:D
fivesense wrote:
spyderwolf wrote:
fivesense wrote:
spyderwolf wrote:Without a serious training,which i dont think you have,you should not even dream to carry a knife for SD.Delicas and Enduras are the best choices,due to the fact they had a trainer version.
Granted, after I've dispatched the assailant with my copper pointed 9mm, I may still want to carve him up for dinner.
I thought we were talking about sd,not about your diet.


I find that portraying myself as a cannibal often acts as a self-defense deterrent.
:D
Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt.
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tonijedi
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

#84

Post by tonijedi »

h8speech wrote:you can kill someone by using a knife, but you can't stop someone by using a knife.
I got to say I generally agree with h8speech when it comes to using a knife for self defense (but not with name calling nor actual hate speech on the forums).

There are very particular cases where I can imagine how a knife comes in handy for stopping an attack, but generally speaking I would not withdraw my knife to defend myself.

I can also imagine using a knife to defend against a dog attack. On both cases (humans or dogs, or any other animal) you can also use a knife to defend someone that's not you.
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

#85

Post by fivesense »

tonijedi wrote:
h8speech wrote:you can kill someone by using a knife, but you can't stop someone by using a knife.
I got to say I generally agree with h8speech when it comes to using a knife for self defense (but not with name calling nor actual hate speech on the forums).

There are very particular cases where I can imagine how a knife comes in handy for stopping an attack, but generally speaking I would not withdraw my knife to defend myself.

I can also imagine using a knife to defend against a dog attack. On both cases (humans or dogs, or any other animal) you can also use a knife to defend someone that's not you.
First, let's shelve the "other options" argument: situational awareness, run away, avoid confrontation, use your gun etc... Let's say the situation is at hand- someone is threatening to attack you or is attacking you- and all you have is a knife.

People underestimate the "deterrent" factor when drawing a knife. Whereas if you brandish a firearm, you open yourself up to all sorts of legal trouble whether you use it or not, deploying a knife is viewed differently from the legal perspective (unless you are "menacing" etc...). So drawing a knife is an emphatic visual warning to an attacker of the potential consequences of a fight. Further, if one ever has to draw and use a knife, consider what the average human will do when blood starts gushing. They stop the aggression or at least must take into account what further aggression might entail. Just like punching someone in the nose- when the blood starts flowing, most people reconsider and often stop. If the attacker is on drugs or adrenaline? Sure, different scenario but that is no argument for not using a knife if that's all you have on you.

But ultimately, if all you have is a knife and your fists (and your feet and common sense of course) why wouldn't you use it? I don't understand why anyone says a knife shouldn't be used in self-defense. Just carry a knife/tool/edged weapon on your person but don't use it in the unlikely event someone attacks you? That sounds ridiculous to me. If you choose to defend yourself with your fists, why wouldn't you be better prepared with your knife in either hand, especially if that knife is gripped in a clenched fist. Clenched in your front (off hand), you can block and jab, leaving your strong hand to bring the heavy. If you block, you've got a good chance of cutting your assailant- if you jab, you can also cut him. No loss, except his blood. Plus, a clenched grip goes a long way toward you maintaining control of the knife. If he's on you in close, thrusts/pulls to the back, neck, legs etc... are all possible. Will you stop the attack? Maybe not, but you are no worse off than if you were just using your hands and legs (which you can use if you have a knife too).

So tell me again why using a knife for self-defense is a bad idea?
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

#86

Post by vivi »

lol
Last edited by vivi on Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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chuck_roxas45
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

#87

Post by chuck_roxas45 »

fivesense wrote: So tell me again why using a knife for self-defense is a bad idea?
The most common argument I've heard is that the aggressor will take it away from you and use it against you.

I call BS. If a knife was so easy to take away, then both parties will just be taking away the knife back and forth. :D
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ZrowsN1s
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

#88

Post by ZrowsN1s »

Some people will never wrap their heads around the idea that a small knife can be an effective weapon. I guess they are entitled to their opinion. On a basic level I look at it as a force multiplier. For your average mortal there isn't much you can do with your bare hands to someone who outweighs you by as little as 50lbs. In some cases more, some less. We are not all created equal in strength, 5'10" 190lbs, doesn't stand much chance against 6'5 250lbs. Even if you know ju-jitsu, if you're not strong enough it won't do you any good. With a knife that calculus changes, it brings skill back into the equation. And unlike impact weapons a knife doesn't rely on the strength of the person wielding the weapon to inflict damage. A 5'4" 105lbs girl can cut you to the bone just as easy as a 200lbs man. (compare this to a 105 lb girl hitting you with a baton vs. a 200lb man hitting you with the same weapon, a huge difference in force) Next to a gun there isn't really a better equalizer than a knife. And while it is possible that someone might not feel it when they get cut, I would say you're more likely to induce shock in them. And take them from an offensive to a defensive posture, allowing you an opportunity to run. A knife can stop the momentum of a surprise attack and allow you to turn the tables and escape. I mean honestly, don't you think every victim of crime had the bright idea to run? Or do they say, "well I would have run away from the situation, but I was just feeling lazy.". There have been a lot of public attack of late, bombs, guns, knives, trucks... You can't always run, and in the case of someone threatening a child, a loved one, or the public, you may not WANT to run from the threat. And again for those of us who live in places that restrict firearms, there is no substitute for a good knife.

*edit that small knife comment wasn't directed at you vivi

I have a ww2 bayonet with a darn near 10"blade, I've got a wicked sharp Ka-bar a huge knife.... When I hear a noise and I grab a knife and a flashlight, I walk right past the rambo knives and pick up my karambit with the 3.5 inch blade. Because I will be much better prepared to defend myself with it than with the other knives.
Last edited by ZrowsN1s on Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
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anycal
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

#89

Post by anycal »

fivesense wrote:...So tell me again why using a knife for self-defense is a bad idea?
If that is all you have, then it is what it is. If you are trained in knife combat, you may have a good chance. But the same can be said about a brick.

The problem is the unpredictability of a situation. Again, if that is all you have, it may help. But to your points,

- deterrent - not likely if the other person has a gun or is hopped up on bath salts

- blood and average person - in a heated situation, in a fight-or-flight response, shock, adrenaline; site of blood won't change much. Have you ever broken a bone or sustained a major injury and not felt it (shock) for a while?
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

#90

Post by fivesense »

Vivi wrote:
fivesense wrote:People underestimate the "deterrent" factor when drawing a knife. Whereas if you brandish a firearm, you open yourself up to all sorts of legal trouble whether you use it or not, deploying a knife is viewed differently from the legal perspective (unless you are "menacing" etc...). So drawing a knife is an emphatic visual warning to an attacker of the potential consequences of a fight. Further, if one ever has to draw and use a knife, consider what the average human will do when blood starts gushing. They stop the aggression or at least must take into account what further aggression might entail. Just like punching someone in the nose- when the blood starts flowing, most people reconsider and often stop. If the attacker is on drugs or adrenaline? Sure, different scenario but that is no argument for not using a knife if that's all you have on you.

But ultimately, if all you have is a knife and your fists (and your feet and common sense of course) why wouldn't you use it? I don't understand why anyone says a knife shouldn't be used in self-defense. Just carry a knife/tool/edged weapon on your person but don't use it in the unlikely event someone attacks you? That sounds ridiculous to me. If you choose to defend yourself with your fists, why wouldn't you be better prepared with your knife in either hand, especially if that knife is gripped in a clenched fist. Clenched in your front (off hand), you can block and jab, leaving your strong hand to bring the heavy. If you block, you've got a good chance of cutting your assailant- if you jab, you can also cut him. No loss, except his blood. Plus, a clenched grip goes a long way toward you maintaining control of the knife. If he's on you in close, thrusts/pulls to the back, neck, legs etc... are all possible. Will you stop the attack? Maybe not, but you are no worse off than if you were just using your hands and legs (which you can use if you have a knife too).

So tell me again why using a knife for self-defense is a bad idea?
At the risk of opening up a big can of worms, I'm going to admit something I never have online.

I've defended myself from physical assault with a Spyderco pocket knife.

Most of the opinions being shared here and in similar discussions have one thing in common. They're complete bullshit. These people are trying to speak with authority on a subject they have absolutely no experience with.

I did not need specialized training to defend my life that night. All I needed was situational awareness and overwhelming aggression. I faced two attackers on my way home from work. I was doing security in a downtown bar at the time, and I lived close by so I walked home. Cutting through an alley I had two men approach me, one unarmed one had a tire iron. No words. No give me your wallet. They approached with malicious intent and I reacted with a level of violence they did not expect. To this day I am convinced that is why I ended up back home that night instead of in the hospital (Like I assume they did), or worse.

Like I said, for years I've avoided mentioning this or participating in self defense discussions of any sort. They're full of mall ninjas and self professed experts who know nothing about nothing. I took over a decade of training in different combat arts. Karate, wrestling, BJJ, defensive shooting courses, etc. NONE of that training came into play that night. It was fast, it was dirty, it was survival. It was primal instinct. Kill or be killed was my mentality. I do not know what happened to my attackers, I do not care. I moved out of state shortly after, that being one of many reasons why. Violence in that area has increased since I left and I have friends who are leaving too because they're sick of hearing gunshots every week. Someone was shot in the face at the bar down the street my last night pulling a security shift where I worked. People that live in safe areas sometimes underestimate the ability for a human to wish you harm without any reasoning behind it. Some people are simply evil and that is all there it to it.

While I still firmly believe guns are superior to knives for defensive use, and in certain situations even pepper spray is as well, knives have a variety of advantages over other weapons. They can be carried with extreme stealth more easily than a gun. They do not require a license to carry or purchase. They are less expensive. They have numerous utility functions that can justify carrying them to anyone asking questions. They do not have serial numbers. They do not require ammunition. They are less complex, less prone to failure. They are not as legislated and can be carried in many places a gun cannot. I can carry a knife to a school, hospital, bar, concert, parade, any job I've ever had, etc. They are not an automatic felony if you carry one after having a few beers (Which is why I did not have my M&P 9mm on my hip the night this happened)

Anyone seriously interested in the subject of employing knives for self defense is doing themselves a disservice by buying into the total bunk that most people post.

I will not be answering any questions about my situation. It is in the past and I have made my feelings clear. If you are curious, it was a Military, but anything long and sharp with a lock can get the job done.

Lastly, on the subject of reach, I would like to leave this image here. If someone does not think this would make a difference, they are not very bright.

Image
Like. Times 50.
fivesense
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

#91

Post by fivesense »

anycal wrote:
fivesense wrote:...So tell me again why using a knife for self-defense is a bad idea?
If that is all you have, then it is what it is. If you are trained in knife combat, you may have a good chance. But the same can be said about a brick.

The problem is the unpredictability of a situation. Again, if that is all you have, it may help. But to your points,

- deterrent - not likely if the other person has a gun or is hopped up on bath salts

- blood and average person - in a heated situation, in a fight-or-flight response, shock, adrenaline; site of blood won't change much. Have you ever broken a bone or sustained a major injury and not felt it (shock) for a while?
If someone has a gun or is hopped up on bath salts, how is one less prepared or equipped with a knife vs. without? You're talking about uncontrollable variables. I'm talking about a knife or nothing at all. It's pretty simple. Just because one has a knife doesn't mean they need to use it.

But I guarantee you a slice to the throat, armpit or groin of someone on bath salts is going to give you an improved, fighting chance at survival. You can punch and kick all you want; but if you punch and kick after hitting an artery, those bath salts are going to drain out sooner than later.

Aside from running or punching (which you can do with or without a knife) the alternative is just letting them eat your face off.

Even still, I'm going to look for concealable methods to carry a brick.
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anycal
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

#92

Post by anycal »

Yep, my bad for responding. Sounds like you got it figured out.
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

#93

Post by fivesense »

anycal wrote:Yep, my bad for responding. Sounds like you got it figured out.
I do, thanks. Hope your feelings aren't hurt.
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

#94

Post by ZrowsN1s »

Vivi wrote: They approached with malicious intent and I reacted with a level of violence they did not expect. To this day I am convinced that is why I ended up back home that night instead of in the hospital (Like I assume they did), or worse....
....It was fast, it was dirty, it was survival. It was primal instinct. Kill or be killed was my mentality. I do not know what happened to my attackers, I do not care. I moved out of state shortly after, that being one of many reasons why. Violence in that area has increased since I left and I have friends who are leaving too because they're sick of hearing gunshots every week. Someone was shot in the face at the bar down the street my last night pulling a security shift where I worked. People that live in safe areas sometimes underestimate the ability for a human to wish you harm without any reasoning behind it. Some people are simply evil and that is all there it to it.
+1 I could not agree more with this. Ernie Emerson in his many seminars on the subject talks about having the proper intent and mind set, and that Training to have that intent and mind set is every bit as important as the other knife drills or any physical training. You must be able to summon what he calls "Bad Intent", or to put it as you did, you need to react with a level of ferocity and violence that your attackers will not expect. His motto is "Train like a madman, fight like a demon". Having or developing the mindset and will to fight back and live is the most important part of training.
-Matt a.k.a. Lo_Que, loadedquestions135 I ❤ The P'KAL :bug-red

"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"Ghost hunters scope the edge." -sal
fivesense
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

#95

Post by fivesense »

ZrowsN1s wrote:
Vivi wrote: They approached with malicious intent and I reacted with a level of violence they did not expect. To this day I am convinced that is why I ended up back home that night instead of in the hospital (Like I assume they did), or worse....
....It was fast, it was dirty, it was survival. It was primal instinct. Kill or be killed was my mentality. I do not know what happened to my attackers, I do not care. I moved out of state shortly after, that being one of many reasons why. Violence in that area has increased since I left and I have friends who are leaving too because they're sick of hearing gunshots every week. Someone was shot in the face at the bar down the street my last night pulling a security shift where I worked. People that live in safe areas sometimes underestimate the ability for a human to wish you harm without any reasoning behind it. Some people are simply evil and that is all there it to it.
+1 I could not agree more with this. Ernie Emerson in his many seminars on the subject talks about having the proper intent and mind set, and that Training to have that intent and mind set is every bit as important as the other knife drills or any physical training. You must be able to summon what he calls "Bad Intent", or to put it as you did, you need to react with a level of ferocity and violence that your attackers will not expect. His motto is "Train like a madman, fight like a demon". Having or developing the mindset and will to fight back and live is the most important part of training.
Spot on. One must become a ferocious savage in the face of aggression. For some, it's a light switch; for others, it takes mental preparation which is difficult to conjure without external input.
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

#96

Post by ZrowsN1s »

These videos won't answer anything we are debating here, but I enjoy them.

Doug Marcaida "Unrealistic Filipino Martial Arts Training" https://youtu.be/M3I_dlku2PA

Elite Gun VS. Elite Knife, Doug Marcaida vs. Instructor Zero uncut footage https://youtu.be/2fjMpn7JCJ0
-Matt a.k.a. Lo_Que, loadedquestions135 I ❤ The P'KAL :bug-red

"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"Ghost hunters scope the edge." -sal
fivesense
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

#97

Post by fivesense »

ZrowsN1s wrote:These videos won't answer anything we are debating here, but I enjoy them.

Doug Marcaida "Unrealistic Filipino Martial Arts Training" https://youtu.be/M3I_dlku2PA

Elite Gun VS. Elite Knife, Doug Marcaida vs. Instructor Zero uncut footage https://youtu.be/2fjMpn7JCJ0
The Unrealistic video is incredibly (dizzyingly) entertaining. I've never seen such a "dance of death" like that!

Some takeaways:
- if someone is coming at you with a knife, run.
- if someone is coming at you with a knife and you have a gun, try to run just far enough to give you time to shoot center mass or face
- if you are not trained like the guys in the video and you have to engage someone with a knife, make sure yours is as long as possible
- if you engage someone with a knife who is as trained as these guys are, apologize profusely for whatever offense you caused
- if you think you are going to be the type of person who gets in knife fights, try to wear your best shark suit, like Bennett from Commando
- be a good person and try not to find trouble or let it find you, but if it does, try to exceed the level of violence perpetrated on you however possible
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ZrowsN1s
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

#98

Post by ZrowsN1s »

Sorry I couldn't find a good pic of my small SD knives earlier these are all sub 3.5 inch (the 2 emersons in the middle are 3.9" I don't carry them often, I find somewhere between 2.5" and 3.5" to be my preference).
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Perhaps bigger is always better. I mean, it goes without saying that a large knife is NOT a disadvantage in any way but...
People I would call the experts, guys like Mr. Emerson, Marcaida, and others who design knives like the EKI Karambit and the Yojimbo seem to think you can do just fine with a 3.5 inch blade or even a 2.6 inch blade. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the Fixed blade Emerson Karambit has seen combat use by members of our armed forces. It's only 3.2 inches. The Combat Karambit which I will wager as well has seen combat is only 2.6 inches. These guys might not know everything but surely they know something when it comes to the size of the knife necessary to get the job done. Right?
-Matt a.k.a. Lo_Que, loadedquestions135 I ❤ The P'KAL :bug-red

"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"Ghost hunters scope the edge." -sal
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

#99

Post by fivesense »

ZrowsN1s wrote: guys might not know everything but surely they know something when it comes to the size of the knife necessary to get the job done. Right?
Without a doubt. As I was watching the videos above, I was struck by the fact that the blades don't look any longer than 2.5 inches. If one knows what they are doing, even such a short(ish) blade can be lethal in a knife fight.
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

#100

Post by spyderwolf »

Just for the pleasure of beign a contrarian,i must say a knife is the worse SD tool ever.Firt,the attack will start with you having your knife in the pocket,and by the time you will have it in your hand,open,it will be all over.Second,if you will use a knife as a deterent and you will brandish it to your attacker in those days,you will be on camera menacing a guy with a knife;you will mutate from victim into agressor.Besides,acording to an old saying from the blade culture,a blade should be felt,not seen.A jacket,a pen,or a rolled up magazine are way better tools to defend yourself.Third,if your life style requires to carry a knife to defend your life-the only case when you should consider using a knife on another human beign-maybe you should change your life style.
Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt.
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