Para 2 as EDDC

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
User avatar
ZrowsN1s
Member
Posts: 5015
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:08 pm
Location: San Diego, California USA

Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby ZrowsN1s » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:20 pm

h8speech wrote:
Having read Michael Janich's bio, it appears that I have cut more people and been cut by more people than he has; which is the only sort of experience that matters with this particular question. Upon taking the time to familiarise myself with his recommended knife designs, he is clearly xxxxxxxx, so I am uninterested in his opinion.
Look I don't want to pile on too much here, but that statement is just ignorant man. And your advice on self defense isn't much better. Not just the name calling, but the backhanded dismissal of Mr. Janichs YEARS of teaching, training, and experience.
I ❤ The POLICE :spyder:

User avatar
Bloke
Member
Posts: 4721
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 12:43 am
Location: Sydney, Australia.

Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby Bloke » Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:07 pm

This bloke brings to mind The Schofield Kid in Unforgiven! :rolleyes:
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

h8speech
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 10:32 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby h8speech » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:26 pm

elena86 wrote: I am sorry I brought M.J name into discussion but I couldn't possible realize who am I dealing with.I agree with Darby, it's a disgrace to trash someone just because you have different ideas.Twenty years or so I spent several years in prisons (during a psicho-social program not as a convict ) and spoke with a few of the most feared long-timers about using a knife in self defense or atack(the real ones rarely speak about that) and I learned a few things about the subject,Usually ninja mall can't put their money where their mouth is....

Marius
That's cool. Five years or so ago I spent several years in prisons, too. Not a psychosocial program, either; maximum security. You don't actually get to have any knives in prison, so I'm not sure why you think inmates would be specially qualified to talk about knife fighting. What was your point?

Regarding the "ninja mall" comment: here are pics of the one time I got cut. The attacker tried to slash at my throat, I blocked with my upper arm. Felt the impact but no pain, figured his hand had hit my arm; later I found that my entire tricep was severed. Who was the mall ninja? The guy who can prove that he's done what he's talking about (me) or the guy who has made a career out of providing dangerous advice (like "use knives for self defence") to scared people who will probably harm themselves if they ever try it? As you point out, mall ninjas can't put their money where their mouth is. I've put my money (and my blood, life, freedom) where my mouth is, so obviously if someone's a mall ninja here it isn't me.

Knives are great for making people not want to attack you. But they're not effective at stopping an attacker. During the event where I got cut, I was being attacked by two guys; one of them was the uncle of the other. Only one of them had a knife. During the fight, the other one tried to grab my knife off me (black 7" Kabar fighter, because edge retention doesn't matter for fighting knives) and got his hands absolutely slashed to ribbons. Seriously, I slashed his hands over half a dozen times. During the trial, 18 months later, he gave evidence that he still couldn't type or use a pen to do more than sign his name. But at the time, he was unaware of his injuries and continued to attempt to attack me.

At the time when I got my cut tricep, here are the injuries of my attackers:

One of them had lacerated hands, a broken jaw (not from a knife, he ate a heavy MT knee while standing) and a stab wound which went through his calf and into his thigh, missing his femoral artery by under an inch (I was thrown down the stairs, he tried to stomp on my chest, I stabbed him in the leg and missed the femoral).

The other (the one with the knife) had a severed quadriceps tendon (at the top of the patella) and a deep laceration to the abdomen which penetrated the intestine and which caused part of the intestine to protrude by the time they got to hospital.

None of these injuries caused them any distress during the fight, they barely slowed down. My injuries caused me no distress during the fight, I didn't slow down. I was unaware of my injuries, and I think that so were they (obviously the severed quadriceps tendon caused him to fall forwards, but in a fight you don't understand why things are not working.)

I am really not telling you guys this in order to impress you or make myself sound tough. I'm telling you these things because it's a matter of public record that they happened and because even in a really serious knife fight where all three participants are crippled and one later dies from complications, NOBODY got stopped, NOBODY got even slowed down. The damage of a knife fight only becomes apparent when the adrenaline runs out. Don't use knives for self defence.

User avatar
MichaelScott
Member
Posts: 3008
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:42 am
Location: Southern Colorado

Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby MichaelScott » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:51 pm

I would think that with sufficient training, a corkscrew would be as effective a self defense tool as a knife. Who has and maintains that level of training? Life is too short to get wrapped around the axle about that. A sufficient level of training for self defense handgun use is much easier, far less time consuming and more effective than getting into a knife fight. Sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you. This seems to have devolved into a rather pointless argument.
Overheard at the end of the ice age, “We’ve been having such unnatural weather.”

http://acehotel.blog

Team Innovation

h8speech
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 10:32 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby h8speech » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:04 pm

Yeah I agree. Even a baton is a vastly better weapon for self defence than a knife, because it actually hurts and you can maintain distance better.

I'm Australian, so all the better self defence options (guns, tasers, capsicum spray and batons) are considered prohibited weapons where I live. Even then, I don't carry a knife for self defence. If I was insecure enough to want a handy weapon in my day to day life, I would just buy an Unbreakable Umbrella or something like that.

I was just replying to the guy who suggested I was a mall ninja, because that's offensive and unjustified.

User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 22215
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby Evil D » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:28 pm

I really doubt you would notice any drag from DLC if you actually had to use your knife in self defense. I carried a DLC Para 2 for a long time and used it for all manner of things but the drag thing wasn't really an issue worth worrying about. It isn't like the rough coating that ESEE used that has an obvious texture to it.

As for alternatives I would (and did) choose a Manix 2 over the Para 2 after years of carrying both. It's just better ergonomically for my hand size. I would also consider the Yojombo 2 if SD is a major concern for you but it isn't quite as versatile for everyday use but that's the trade off for having a far superior SD knife. You just have to choose where you want to compromise.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

User avatar
mb1
Member
Posts: 1021
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:47 am
Location: Southeast, US

Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby mb1 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:15 pm

h8speech wrote:Yeah I agree. Even a baton is a vastly better weapon for self defence than a knife, because it actually hurts and you can maintain distance better.

I'm Australian, so all the better self defence options (guns, tasers, capsicum spray and batons) are considered prohibited weapons where I live. Even then, I don't carry a knife for self defence. If I was insecure enough to want a handy weapon in my day to day life, I would just buy an Unbreakable Umbrella or something like that.

I was just replying to the guy who suggested I was a mall ninja, because that's offensive and unjustified.
I appreciate you sharing your story...and I'm sorry to hear it FWIW. It is a sobering reminder of the realities and consequences of violence.
- Mark

"Don't believe everything you think." -anonymous wise man

User avatar
ZrowsN1s
Member
Posts: 5015
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:08 pm
Location: San Diego, California USA

Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby ZrowsN1s » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:25 pm

It's a great story, but one fight still doesn't make you an authority on CQC. I'll stick with the advice from people with a little more experience.
I ❤ The POLICE :spyder:

fivesense
Member
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby fivesense » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:32 pm

spyderwolf wrote:Without a serious training,which i dont think you have,you should not even dream to carry a knife for SD.Delicas and Enduras are the best choices,due to the fact they had a trainer version.
Granted, after I've dispatched the assailant with my copper pointed 9mm, I may still want to carve him up for dinner.

fivesense
Member
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby fivesense » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:34 pm

h8speech wrote:
fivesense wrote:
h8speech wrote:you can kill someone by using a knife, but you can't stop someone by using a knife.
Sorry, this does not compute. And fencing has nothing to do with using a knife for SD.
If you are armed with a knife it is much easier to inflict lethal injuries on someone than it is to stop them from attacking you. In a combat situation knives inflict no shock, no pain and no significant disability. People injured by a knife usually do not know about their injuries until later, bleeding out takes longer than you think, and hamstrings (etc) are tougher than you think.

Also: fencing has literally everything to do with using a knife for SD. Fencing is the sport which teaches you to be fast light and accurate and cut your opponent without being cut. I also train MMA; fencing is infinitely more relevant to knife-SD than that.
elena86 wrote:Not true.If you don't believe me, ask Michael Janich.

Marius
Having read Michael Janich's bio, it appears that I have cut more people and been cut by more people than he has; which is the only sort of experience that matters with this particular question. Upon taking the time to familiarise myself with his recommended knife designs, he is clearly xxxxxxxx, so I am uninterested in his opinion.
Or, you are an internet warrior and I'm supposed to take your word for it. Ok. You are some kind of badass.

fivesense
Member
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby fivesense » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:38 pm

ThePeacent wrote:
dreadpirate wrote:I see a few posts discussing self defense; aren't the hawk bill serrated knives designed for self-defense? I'm not an expert or anything - just what I have read.
what you've probably read is something long discussed in these and other forums,
Hawkbill blades make great utility knives, with incredible pull cuts and peculiar cutting characteristics and behavior.

Image

They have very specialised uses and applications, and as a result of their design they happen to be excellent weapons against tissue and meat,

Image

the combination of the claw shape (such as a Tiger's claws or the ones from Eagles and predatory animals) with a "grabbing" curve and a deadly pointy tip that penetrates with force and ease into soft materials makes them lethal and effective cutting tools

same applies to Reverse S bladesm those shapes cut like a much longer straight edge

Image

so, to the OP, if I'd have to pick a Spydie folder for that purpose I'd grab a long, serrated one (Pacific Salt, Police 4, Endura...) or a curved one (Matriarch, Civilian, Tasman...) preferably in H1 steel due to its toughness and rust-proof characteristics (ideal for a concealed, carried everywhere blade) and "wave" it if possible to increase speed and reliability

Image

practice, train and get familiar with it, that's what will count the most in the end
Dude! Stop cutting yourself for educational purposes! :D

fivesense
Member
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby fivesense » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:42 pm

h8speech wrote:
Bloke wrote: I'd like to come along and watch sometime is all. :)
I certainly intend to get into no more knife fights in my life, I've had enough of that ****. Fighting with knives is always a lose-lose situation, even if you've got a massive skill & experience advantage over your opponent. Which is why I don't think that any sensible self defence instructor should be telling people that knives are a valid SD choice.

The OP's American. So if someone attacks him, he should call the police. If he doesn't have his phone or he doesn't have time, he should shoot them. If he doesn't have his gun, he should Taser them. If he doesn't have his Taser, he should capsicum spray them. If he doesn't have his capsicum spray, he should use an extendable baton. And if he doesn't have his phone, his gun, his Taser, his capsicum spray or his extendable baton, he's probably having a nightmare again.

All those options are more sensible self defence tools than a knife. But if you're going to go for a knife, get a big long one which maximises your reach and allows you to stab.
This is what I did the last time I ran into a hard guy from Australia. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YyBtMxZgQs

fivesense
Member
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby fivesense » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:46 pm

Bloke wrote:This bloke brings to mind The Schofield Kid in Unforgiven! :rolleyes:
Nice! The canteen killer!

fivesense
Member
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby fivesense » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:48 pm

h8speech wrote:
I am really not telling you guys this in order to impress you or make myself sound tough.
[/quote]

Good, because even your frozen nipple doesn't make me think you are tough. Although I'm sure it has a nice glass cutting edge to it.

User avatar
chuck_roxas45
Member
Posts: 8677
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:43 pm
Location: Small City, Philippines
Contact:

Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby chuck_roxas45 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:19 am

I choose a teacup for EDDC...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16RdEtQL9EQ

ThePeacent
Member
Posts: 2847
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:45 am
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby ThePeacent » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:33 am

Sorry wrong post

User avatar
Bloke
Member
Posts: 4721
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 12:43 am
Location: Sydney, Australia.

Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby Bloke » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:02 am

ThePeacent wrote:Image
I get it! :)

A handful of insecticide in the face ... :cool:
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

User avatar
awa54
Member
Posts: 2396
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:54 am
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby awa54 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:28 am

chuck_roxas45 wrote:I choose a teacup for EDDC...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16RdEtQL9EQ
I wanna know where they got a tin opening key like that... sardines have had a normal pull tab for over 20 years!
-David

still more knives than sharpening stones...

User avatar
awa54
Member
Posts: 2396
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:54 am
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby awa54 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:37 am

fivesense wrote:I plan to pick up a Spyderco Paramilitary 2 to use as my everyday defensive carry knife. I have a Military now and love it but now want the 4-way capability of the Para 2 clip.

First, I've read about the "drag" of the DLC coating when slicing but I think that applies more to food prep. Is it a practical consideration for EDDC? I doubt it so I suppose it comes down to aesthetic and corrosion resistance. My Military is satin and I love it but I do like the Black DLC on the Para 2.

I'm debating the digi camo vs. the black handle but as this EDDC will double for when I'm wearing my suits for business, the black handles will disappear better in my pocket.

Lastly, what is a comparable and perhaps better consideration for EDDC in this category? Although I'm pretty confident the Para 2 fits the bill, I'm open to suggestions.

Have you considered the Opinel 0008 Tactical Weapon System? it's supposed to be very low drag ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgXZkxhZnt4
-David

still more knives than sharpening stones...

spyderwolf
Member
Posts: 627
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:22 am
Location: Romania

Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby spyderwolf » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:25 am

fivesense wrote:
spyderwolf wrote:Without a serious training,which i dont think you have,you should not even dream to carry a knife for SD.Delicas and Enduras are the best choices,due to the fact they had a trainer version.
Granted, after I've dispatched the assailant with my copper pointed 9mm, I may still want to carve him up for dinner.
I thought we were talking about sd,not about your diet.
Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt.


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aicolainen, Bing [Bot], cwsteinjr, Evil D, GarageBoy, Majestic-12 [Bot], Monty, Mushroom, Rp5, Sumdumguy, thefly01, tonijedi, Trigger_GSP, vvs, wec12 and 36 guests