Para 2 as EDDC

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mb1
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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby mb1 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:37 am

Vivi wrote:
fivesense wrote:
You mention the lock not being as safe when carried. Can you elaborate?
This was only after carrying it for years and using it hard. When it was new I did not have this issue at all. I don't know if this is something that will eventually happen with all compression locks, or even all Para 2's. This is the only compression lock knife I've carried for that many years. I believe its something Spyderco can fix as well.

For what its worth the Yojimbo 2 seems to have a stiffer detent, which is something I now look for.

Either way I wouldn't let my experiences deter you from the Para if you're interested in it, its an exceptional design. There are thousands of them being carried and used daily and so far I'm the only person I know of that has had this issue. Mine was also from an early batch of DLC Para 2's, so its possible some CQI has occurred since then.
Can you replace the detent ball? Or is the "socket" too worn?
- Mark

"Don't believe everything you think." -anonymous wise man

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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:03 am

I think people incorrectly focus on blade length for self defense. I believe that the only real advantage a longer blade offers is more reach and 1/2 to 1 inch more reach is not a big difference in a face to face situation. Many meat cutting tests show that a knife will often cut twice as deep as the blade is long. This is due to meat compressing when under pressure and due to cuts spreading open while being cut. Box cutters are one of the most common weapons used as they are ubiquitous. Many people go to the ER with massive cuts caused by box cutters. My point is not that you should carry a box cutter for SD but rather that a 3 or 3.5 inch blade will cut deep enough to hit bone on the majority of the body. I do not carry for SD and I have zero training but I have watched some of Janich's videos and believe that he is correct that severing key connective tissue is the quickest way to take some one out of a fight. A Para2 or even a Delica should easily be able to make those cuts. If you are trying to kill then you should be stabbing and not slashing and then length would matter but killing isn't really SD.

This is in reference to the OP's question about a Military vs a Para2.
Last edited by bearfacedkiller on Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby 017 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:17 am

.
Last edited by 017 on Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby h8speech » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:19 am

fivesense wrote:
h8speech wrote:you can kill someone by using a knife, but you can't stop someone by using a knife.
Sorry, this does not compute. And fencing has nothing to do with using a knife for SD.
If you are armed with a knife it is much easier to inflict lethal injuries on someone than it is to stop them from attacking you. In a combat situation knives inflict no shock, no pain and no significant disability. People injured by a knife usually do not know about their injuries until later, bleeding out takes longer than you think, and hamstrings (etc) are tougher than you think.

Also: fencing has literally everything to do with using a knife for SD. Fencing is the sport which teaches you to be fast light and accurate and cut your opponent without being cut. I also train MMA; fencing is infinitely more relevant to knife-SD than that.
elena86 wrote:Not true.If you don't believe me, ask Michael Janich.

Marius
Having read Michael Janich's bio, it appears that I have cut more people and been cut by more people than he has; which is the only sort of experience that matters with this particular question. Upon taking the time to familiarise myself with his recommended knife designs, he is clearly xxxxxx, so I am uninterested in his opinion. - Edited - TazKristi
Last edited by h8speech on Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby dreadpirate » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:20 am

Para 3 is also a good EDC knife. Nothing wrong with a PM2 though. I think the Military, PM2, and PM3 make a nice set to cover the gambit of folding knife needs. These are the kinds of knives that (to me) represent what Spyderco is really, really good at.

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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby dreadpirate » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:23 am

I see a few posts discussing self defense; aren't the hawk bill serrated knives designed for self-defense? I'm not an expert or anything - just what I have read.

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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby h8speech » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:27 am

bearfacedkiller wrote:I think people incorrectly focus on blade length for self defense. I believe that the only real advantage a longer blade offers is more reach and 1/2 to 1 inch more reach is not a big difference in a face to face situation. Many meat cutting tests show that a knife will often cut twice as deep as the blade is long. This is due to meat compressing when under pressure and due to cuts spreading open while being cut. Box cutters are one of the most common weapons used as they are ubiquitous. Many people go to the ER with massive cuts caused by box cutters. My point is not that you should carry a box cutter for SD but rather that a 3 or 3.5 inch blade will cut deep enough to hit bone on the majority of the body. I do not carry for SD and I have zero training but I have watched some of Janich's videos and believe that he is correct that severing key connective tissue is the quickest way to take some one out of a fight. A Para2 or even a Delica should easily be able to make those cuts. If you are trying to kill then you should be stabbing and not slashing and then length would matter but killing isn't really SD.
the point of a long blade is not to make a very deep cut, it is to increase the distance at which you can cut your opponent. I would be quite happy with a small knife lashed to the end of a one metre pole. And if I had such a knife on a pole, I would easily defeat an opponent who had a big knife, would I not?

In MMA and boxing, reach is of some importance but not too much, because a jab at max range inflicts little damage. If you are using a knife, a cut at max range is still an extremely damaging injury; so you cannot risk it. And a knife user can be faster than a boxer or mixed martial artist, because he does not need to have any power behind his strikes. A gentle hand cuts just as deeply as a furious one.

Consequently, an extra inch or two of reach is of great importance, because it keeps your opponent at a greater distance. He must close all the distance between you in order to harm you, and the further you hold him away, the less likely it is that he can close that distance without being cut and evaded. Note that for folding knives, the handle length is nearly as important as the blade length; if a knife has a 3.5 inch blade in a 4 inch handle, and you upgrade to one with a 4.5 inch blade in a 5 inch handle, have you gained one inch of reach? No, you've gained two.

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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:36 am

He was asking about a 3.5 inch blade vs a 4 inch blade. I don't see 1/2 inch as a real advantage.

I did not read your whole post and usually don't. You are living up to your username and spreading hate speech. For that reason I am even less interested in what you have to say.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby Bloke » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:52 am

h8speech wrote: Having read Michael Janich's bio, it appears that I have cut more people and been cut by more people than he has; which is the only sort of experience that matters with this particular question. Upon taking the time to familiarise myself with his recommended knife designs, he is clearly retarded, so I am uninterested in his opinion.
Where abouts do they hold the knife fights in Sydney?
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby h8speech » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:38 am

@bearfacedkiller: Feel free to keep it to yourself, then. I was only pointing out that since we are talking about folders, reach increase is twice the blade length increase.

@Bloke: Leichhardt, the first time; Bankstown, the second time. Why do you ask?

edit: Sorry if I offended you by criticising this "self defence expert" guy, I guess. I'm just looking at this Yojimbo thing and it's like:
  • cannot stab
  • has a hollow grind
  • fragile tip
  • is not very long or pointy
I mean the majority of knives intended for fighting with (daggers & fighting knives) attempt to have a tip which is both robust and lends itself to stabbing. This one fits neither criteria.

Maybe it is a very good EDC knife, and I know Spyderco's manufacturing is always good, but if I had to choose either this knife or a hammer to use as a weapon, I would rather have the hammer.

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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby Bloke » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:56 am

h8speech wrote:@Bloke: Leichhardt, the first time; Bankstown, the second time. Why do you ask?
I'd like to come along and watch sometime is all. :)
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby h8speech » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:06 am

Bloke wrote: I'd like to come along and watch sometime is all. :)
I certainly intend to get into no more knife fights in my life, I've had enough of that ****. Fighting with knives is always a lose-lose situation, even if you've got a massive skill & experience advantage over your opponent. Which is why I don't think that any sensible self defence instructor should be telling people that knives are a valid SD choice.

The OP's American. So if someone attacks him, he should call the police. If he doesn't have his phone or he doesn't have time, he should shoot them. If he doesn't have his gun, he should Taser them. If he doesn't have his Taser, he should capsicum spray them. If he doesn't have his capsicum spray, he should use an extendable baton. And if he doesn't have his phone, his gun, his Taser, his capsicum spray or his extendable baton, he's probably having a nightmare again.

All those options are more sensible self defence tools than a knife. But if you're going to go for a knife, get a big long one which maximises your reach and allows you to stab.

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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby anycal » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:23 am

Peter

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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby h8speech » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:29 am

Every knife self defence thread ever.

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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:08 am

h8speech wrote:@bearfacedkiller: Feel free to keep it to yourself, then.

edit: Sorry if I offended you by criticising this "self defence expert" guy
I only responded to you because you quoted me. You cannot quote someone and then tell them to be quite. I will freely share my opinions of knives but will refrain from sharing my opinions of you as you request. Sorry about that. That wasn't necessary. :)

My comment was about you calling someone an offensive name because you disagreed with them, not because you were critical of them. Again, I should have bit my tongue.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby h8speech » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:11 am

bearfacedkiller wrote:My comment was about you calling someone an offensive name because you disagreed with them, not because you were critical of them.
Yeah I shouldn't have done that, my bad.

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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:22 am

No worries. :)

Again, I have never been in a knife fight but I have been in more than a few physical confrontations. I have an understanding of how adrenaline can effect strength, awareness, perception and motor skills. I have always sort of figured that ergonomics are a huge part of it. In a real high stress situation I would want the knife I can get the best purchase on. I have never slashed at a relatively solid object with all my strength but I would assume that it could test your ability to hold onto your knife. When the adrenaline is pumping I want a solid grip. It seems like there are quite a few factors that go into a good SD knife.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby ThePeacent » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:30 am

dreadpirate wrote:I see a few posts discussing self defense; aren't the hawk bill serrated knives designed for self-defense? I'm not an expert or anything - just what I have read.
what you've probably read is something long discussed in these and other forums,
Hawkbill blades make great utility knives, with incredible pull cuts and peculiar cutting characteristics and behavior.

Image

They have very specialised uses and applications, and as a result of their design they happen to be excellent weapons against tissue and meat,

Image

the combination of the claw shape (such as a Tiger's claws or the ones from Eagles and predatory animals) with a "grabbing" curve and a deadly pointy tip that penetrates with force and ease into soft materials makes them lethal and effective cutting tools

same applies to Reverse S bladesm those shapes cut like a much longer straight edge

Image

so, to the OP, if I'd have to pick a Spydie folder for that purpose I'd grab a long, serrated one (Pacific Salt, Police 4, Endura...) or a curved one (Matriarch, Civilian, Tasman...) preferably in H1 steel due to its toughness and rust-proof characteristics (ideal for a concealed, carried everywhere blade) and "wave" it if possible to increase speed and reliability

Image

practice, train and get familiar with it, that's what will count the most in the end

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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby elena86 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:56 am

h8speech wrote:
bearfacedkiller wrote:My comment was about you calling someone an offensive name because you disagreed with them, not because you were critical of them.
Yeah I shouldn't have done that, my bad.
I am sorry I brought M.J name into discussion but I couldn't possible realize who am I dealing with.I agree with Darby, it's a disgrace to trash someone just because you have different ideas.Twenty years or so I spent several years in prisons (during a psicho-social program not as a convict ) and spoke with a few of the most feared long-timers about using a knife in self defense or atack(the real ones rarely speak about that) and I learned a few things about the subject,Usually ninja mall can't put their money where their mouth is....

Marius

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Re: Para 2 as EDDC

Postby Manalishi » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:08 am

I have to admit that this is the first time I've seen the acronym EDDC..But this is describes exactly the way I've used a knife all my adult life..As someone who grew up and lives in Texas from cubscouts on I have allways carried a knife.For edc and if I was ever in danger SD..That being said..I've never had to use a knife to defend myself.Even when I was young and stupid like most kids getting into fights and what not..I never ever pulled a knife..But if I had to save mylife in a last ditch situation the ParaMILITARY2 Which is a smaller refined version of the military would be very much up to the task...I have carried one everyday for the last 5 years or so..Light sharp,Good traction,Great belly.All and all my favorite knife I've got for the task of eddc.


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