Aqua Salt sheath - Fail

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Doc Dan
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Re: Aqua Salt sheath - Fail

#21

Post by Doc Dan »

SEF, you would have to soak the leather in leather waterproofing. There are several kinds. I have done this to my hunting boots and it works pretty good. The seams are a problem so you have to come up with a way to seal those, and the threads, too. It is best to do that as part of the making process, but it can be done after, albeit not as good.
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tonijedi
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Re: Aqua Salt sheath - Fail

#22

Post by tonijedi »

Sorry to bring back this topic but... yeah, the sheath does dull the knife.
Now that I have played with the Aqua Salt for 2 months I can be certain that the sheath dulls the knife. Even if you insert and remove it correctly the sheath will still dull the knife because the knife can move inside the sheath (it rattles). So it's not just an "user's error".
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Re: Aqua Salt sheath - Fail

#23

Post by awa54 »

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:If someone wanted to make a leather sheath that was reasonably water-resistant, to replace the polymer one, for an Aqua Salt, what would you all suggest?
A) not using leather, since it isn't waterproof, or B) making the sheath out of veg. tanned leather then immersing it in hot wax until it's fully permeated... this makes it almost completely waterproof, but gives the leather about the same consistency as a plastic sheath.

Pretty much any hard sheath has the potential to dull the blade it houses and most non-dulling sheathes are not as water resistant as a Salt series knife!
-David

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Re: Aqua Salt sheath - Fail

#24

Post by captnvegtble »

I own two Aqua Salt's (the original in SE and the updated model in PE) and I love them both... one of my favorite Spyderco fixed blade model. Yes, the sheaths dull the edge, especially with a plain edge. It is well known problem and has been discussed extensively before... Michael Janich weighed-in on a distant post and talked about preventing the edge from hitting the sheath by indexing the spine along the sheath as you draw and sheath the knife. This is the proper way of drawing and can help prevent the edge from hitting the sheath and dulling, but I also agree that the sheath could have been better designed to minimize this phenomenon. Sure this can happen with any sheath, but I find it occurs more commonly with the Aqua Salt sheath. Any system (i.e. the sheath in this case) that relies on 100% proper technique to avoid an unwanted outcome is not a well designed system, in my opinion. So in this case I agree the sheath could be designed better, but it hasn't risen to the level of a problem for me that I feel the need to call Warranty department. Everybody has a different threshold and tolerance for this sort of thing.
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Re: Aqua Salt sheath - Fail

#25

Post by tonijedi »

captnvegtble wrote:I own two Aqua Salt's (the original in SE and the updated model in PE) and I love them both... one of my favorite Spyderco fixed blade model. Yes, the sheaths dull the edge, especially with a plain edge. It is well known problem and has been discussed extensively before... Michael Janich weighed-in on a distant post and talked about preventing the edge from hitting the sheath by indexing the spine along the sheath as you draw and sheath the knife. This is the proper way of drawing and can help prevent the edge from hitting the sheath and dulling, but I also agree that the sheath could have been better designed to minimize this phenomenon.[...]
Please note that I wasn't referring to that dulling. That can happen in any sheath and it's what I called "user's error" on my previous post. What I'm talking about is that the knife rattles inside the sheath and that dulls the knife (I have the plain edge version so the rolling it's quite visible on the naked eye). What I'm saying is that you sheath the knife, put it in your back pack, go for a hike where you have to move up and down, unsheath the knife and it's dull. Not good!
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Re: Aqua Salt sheath - Fail

#26

Post by Eee »

It’s an interesting thread. We all have a loyalty to Spyderco which has been earned by good performance and good customer service and we often want to defend the company precisely because of that. I’m not sure in this case that was the right thing to do for Spyderco or the OP. Part of what makes Spyderco so admirable is the CQI approach, but this relies on identifying issues to improve. I worry about the users out there who never report an issue, think it is a ‘junk knife’ and then tell their friends that Spyderco makes ‘junk knives’. Unfortunately this knife and sheath combination is an issue. One of the great things about the Aqua Salt (I have 2, one PE & one SE) is the way it presents the edge into the cut, but this means it often presents the edge to the sheath. This is the worst sheath I own, to the extent I got some custom kydex made, which resolves the issue. The Kydex maker commented that this wasn’t the first sheath he’d had to make for an Aqua Salt for the same reason. Comparison to, for example, an ESEE Izula sheath, shows a design which reduces/removes the issue, so it can be done. I’d love to hear about any improvements which are planned or have been made to these sorts of sheaths. It’d also be a very useful resource if members could post pictures of sheaths which avoid these problems. If anyone is interested I’ll try to take some.
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Re: Aqua Salt sheath - Fail

#27

Post by vivi »

tonijedi wrote:
captnvegtble wrote:sheath the knife, put it in your back pack, go for a hike where you have to move up and down, unsheath the knife and it's dull. Not good!
I've done that over a hundred times using my PE Aqua Salt...never seen it dull from being in the sheath.
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Re: Aqua Salt sheath - Fail

#28

Post by PiterM »

Well... the best solution is just a custom made kydex. It makes SALT perfect vacation fixed blade. Here’s my own attempt:

Image
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Re: Aqua Salt sheath - Fail

#29

Post by sal »

We'll be looking into the sheath issue.

sal
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Re: Aqua Salt sheath - Fail

#30

Post by awa54 »

tonijedi wrote:
captnvegtble wrote:I own two Aqua Salt's (the original in SE and the updated model in PE) and I love them both... one of my favorite Spyderco fixed blade model. Yes, the sheaths dull the edge, especially with a plain edge. It is well known problem and has been discussed extensively before... Michael Janich weighed-in on a distant post and talked about preventing the edge from hitting the sheath by indexing the spine along the sheath as you draw and sheath the knife. This is the proper way of drawing and can help prevent the edge from hitting the sheath and dulling, but I also agree that the sheath could have been better designed to minimize this phenomenon.[...]
Please note that I wasn't referring to that dulling. That can happen in any sheath and it's what I called "user's error" on my previous post. What I'm talking about is that the knife rattles inside the sheath and that dulls the knife (I have the plain edge version so the rolling it's quite visible on the naked eye). What I'm saying is that you sheath the knife, put it in your back pack, go for a hike where you have to move up and down, unsheath the knife and it's dull. Not good!
As an aside, what bevel angles are you using on your Aqua Salt and what level of sharpness do you aspire to? It seems like PE H1 is not a good steel to use low angles on and is reputed to be so-so to poor at retaining the kind of ultimate sharpness that most of us who sharpen to acute angles are chasing.

At the very least a stouter micro-bevel may be in order to help moderate the edge damage you're experiencing?
-David

still more knives than sharpening stones...
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Re: Aqua Salt sheath - Fail

#31

Post by Eee »

sal wrote:We'll be looking into the sheath issue.

sal
That’s exactly why Spyderco will continue to get my business
awa54 wrote:
tonijedi wrote:
captnvegtble wrote:I own two Aqua Salt's (the original in SE and the updated model in PE) and I love them both... one of my favorite Spyderco fixed blade model. Yes, the sheaths dull the edge, especially with a plain edge. It is well known problem and has been discussed extensively before... Michael Janich weighed-in on a distant post and talked about preventing the edge from hitting the sheath by indexing the spine along the sheath as you draw and sheath the knife. This is the proper way of drawing and can help prevent the edge from hitting the sheath and dulling, but I also agree that the sheath could have been better designed to minimize this phenomenon.[...]
Please note that I wasn't referring to that dulling. That can happen in any sheath and it's what I called "user's error" on my previous post. What I'm talking about is that the knife rattles inside the sheath and that dulls the knife (I have the plain edge version so the rolling it's quite visible on the naked eye). What I'm saying is that you sheath the knife, put it in your back pack, go for a hike where you have to move up and down, unsheath the knife and it's dull. Not good!
As an aside, what bevel angles are you using on your Aqua Salt and what level of sharpness do you aspire to? It seems like PE H1 is not a good steel to use low angles on and is reputed to be so-so to poor at retaining the kind of ultimate sharpness that most of us who sharpen to acute angles are chasing.

At the very least a stouter micro-bevel may be in order to help moderate the edge damage you're experiencing?
I was getting the blunting on the factory angle, I think the issue is the sheath since a custom sheath has solved it. I’d disagree that H1 isn’t suited to acute angles. I took my Atlantic Salt down to 15 degrees inclusive (7-8 d.p.s.) and got some rolling (not chipping) so now use a 15 d.p.s. Microbevel which has cured it for my use. Edge retention seems better at those sort of angles than stock because cutting effort is so low. I recall that Vivi uses low angles too, hopefully he’ll comment on his experience.
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Re: Aqua Salt sheath - Fail

#32

Post by vivi »

awa54 wrote:
tonijedi wrote:
captnvegtble wrote:I own two Aqua Salt's (the original in SE and the updated model in PE) and I love them both... one of my favorite Spyderco fixed blade model. Yes, the sheaths dull the edge, especially with a plain edge. It is well known problem and has been discussed extensively before... Michael Janich weighed-in on a distant post and talked about preventing the edge from hitting the sheath by indexing the spine along the sheath as you draw and sheath the knife. This is the proper way of drawing and can help prevent the edge from hitting the sheath and dulling, but I also agree that the sheath could have been better designed to minimize this phenomenon.[...]
Please note that I wasn't referring to that dulling. That can happen in any sheath and it's what I called "user's error" on my previous post. What I'm talking about is that the knife rattles inside the sheath and that dulls the knife (I have the plain edge version so the rolling it's quite visible on the naked eye). What I'm saying is that you sheath the knife, put it in your back pack, go for a hike where you have to move up and down, unsheath the knife and it's dull. Not good!
As an aside, what bevel angles are you using on your Aqua Salt and what level of sharpness do you aspire to? It seems like PE H1 is not a good steel to use low angles on and is reputed to be so-so to poor at retaining the kind of ultimate sharpness that most of us who sharpen to acute angles are chasing.

At the very least a stouter micro-bevel may be in order to help moderate the edge damage you're experiencing?
FWIW I'm running mine thinner than anyone here I'd wager. I sharpen it as close to flat to the stone as I can without hitting the top of the hollow grind, then microbevel at 15DPS on my UF benchstone.

H1 in PE does go from hair whittling sharp to hair scrapng sharp easily, so I'd notice any unusual dulling pretty quick.

My aqua salt is an older satin finished model. Maybe the original sheaths were a bit different?

I'd imagine it's no concern with SE.
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Re: Aqua Salt sheath - Fail

#33

Post by sal »

I use plain edge H1 quite a bit. Especially when I'm in humid areas like Hawaii. It gets very sharp, hold respectable edge I sharpen it at 30 degrees inclusive with no problems. When I'm in the water, snorkeling or ? I carry a serrated Pacific Salt.

Our current plan is to use more LC in plain edge Salts but we also want to be realistic with plain edge H1.

sal
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Re: Aqua Salt sheath - Fail

#34

Post by tonijedi »

awa54 wrote:
tonijedi wrote:
captnvegtble wrote:I own two Aqua Salt's (the original in SE and the updated model in PE) and I love them both... one of my favorite Spyderco fixed blade model. Yes, the sheaths dull the edge, especially with a plain edge. It is well known problem and has been discussed extensively before... Michael Janich weighed-in on a distant post and talked about preventing the edge from hitting the sheath by indexing the spine along the sheath as you draw and sheath the knife. This is the proper way of drawing and can help prevent the edge from hitting the sheath and dulling, but I also agree that the sheath could have been better designed to minimize this phenomenon.[...]
Please note that I wasn't referring to that dulling. That can happen in any sheath and it's what I called "user's error" on my previous post. What I'm talking about is that the knife rattles inside the sheath and that dulls the knife (I have the plain edge version so the rolling it's quite visible on the naked eye). What I'm saying is that you sheath the knife, put it in your back pack, go for a hike where you have to move up and down, unsheath the knife and it's dull. Not good!
As an aside, what bevel angles are you using on your Aqua Salt and what level of sharpness do you aspire to? It seems like PE H1 is not a good steel to use low angles on and is reputed to be so-so to poor at retaining the kind of ultimate sharpness that most of us who sharpen to acute angles are chasing.

At the very least a stouter micro-bevel may be in order to help moderate the edge damage you're experiencing?
I'm using the factory edge sharpened on the 40 degrees Sharpmaker setting plus stropping.
I agree H1 in its PE form isn't the best in edge retention but come on, most knives used in the world are not significantly better (if not worse, just imagine SAK steel, 420 in many multitool, kitchen knives, etc.) The edge just rolls on the part that knocks on the sheath (about 1.5 inches around the belly of the blade).

I have the older generation Aqua Salt (Yellow handle, satin blade).
sal wrote:We'll be looking into the sheath issue.

sal
Thank you Sal!
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