more high-chromium steels please

[qazy]

It's surfing gringo. I grew up in the US but have lived for many years in Central America. And of course, I surf. My real name is Lance. Pleased to meet you sir. Welcome to the forum. :)

Thank you! Pleased to meet you too, Lance. I live in Sydney, and surf too. My name's Will.

There seems to be interest on the forums in aeb-l, 13c26 and 14c28n. Is there any interest in any them?

I'm quite interested in AEB-L. It's got the reputation of being able to achieve ridiculous levels of sharpness. Let's be honest - we don't use all our knives hard. Some of our knives are just for impressing people. I'd love to see an AEB-L Spyderco (preferably something intended for kitchen use etc) at a low angle (though I can regrind if necessary). It gets that "holy sh*t" level of sharpness, and it doesn't really need to hold it forever. I like sharpening. Most of you guys do too.

There is a lot of **** AEB-L. I assume its not the easiest to HT, since not that many had master it. And I am afraid since Spyderco is a mass producer they wont make it justice.
But if they make it good, its a win win for a slicer type blade.

[gunmike1]

It's surfing gringo. I grew up in the US but have lived for many years in Central America. And of course, I surf. My real name is Lance. Pleased to meet you sir. Welcome to the forum. :)

Thank you! Pleased to meet you too, Lance. I live in Sydney, and surf too. My name's Will.

There seems to be interest on the forums in aeb-l, 13c26 and 14c28n. Is there any interest in any them?

I'm quite interested in AEB-L. It's got the reputation of being able to achieve ridiculous levels of sharpness. Let's be honest - we don't use all our knives hard. Some of our knives are just for impressing people. I'd love to see an AEB-L Spyderco (preferably something intended for kitchen use etc) at a low angle (though I can regrind if necessary). It gets that "holy sh*t" level of sharpness, and it doesn't really need to hold it forever. I like sharpening. Most of you guys do too.

There is a lot of **** AEB-L. I assume its not the easiest to HT, since not that many had master it. And I am afraid since Spyderco is a mass producer they wont make it justice.
But if they make it good, its a win win for a slicer type blade.

I really didn't like Kershaw's 13C26. Granted, I believe they improved the heat treat over time, and I can only speak for earlier knives, but it was tough to get a clean burr free edge on it, which is pretty horrible for a razor blade steel. I'm sure if Spyderco used AEB-L/13C26, they'd do it some justice. It won't be an optimal heat treatment like some custom makers can do, but I'm sure they could make perform up to the steel's main properties of edge stability and taking a clean, very sharp edge. I'd love a very thin edged folder in AEB-L from Spyderco.

[gunmike1]

Is bd1 powder steel? I didn't think it was. I really like it. It's very similar to GIN -1 and 440B and could be within the elemental compositions of both, or very close. I have found it to be similar to S110V in side by side comparisons in edge holding. I would choose it over many steels based on ease of sharpening and cost. I have not tried hard testing for toughness, and my carbon steel knives don't really rust, so that's not an issue for my use and climate.

What angles and finish are you comparing the steels at? How dull do you let them get in the testing? I'm pretty sure you are like me and not a 15 degree per side type guy, so it's probably worth mentioning the types of edges you were running when you did your testing so everyone can have a clear picture.

[ejames13]

Para2 sprint in BD1? Doesn't sound like a bad idea.

In frn.

YES!!! :D

and once there's an FRN mold it should also be made in FRN/Cruwear and a couple of others..

FRN Cruwear PM2?? I'll have 3 please.

FRN PM2 would be really interesting. I assume it would have to have liners for the compression lock, unlike the Manix 2 and Native 5 LW models...unless they changed the lock type.

[me2]

Is bd1 powder steel? I didn't think it was. I really like it. It's very similar to GIN -1 and 440B and could be within the elemental compositions of both, or very close. I have found it to be similar to S110V in side by side comparisons in edge holding. I would choose it over many steels based on ease of sharpening and cost. I have not tried hard testing for toughness, and my carbon steel knives don't really rust, so that's not an issue for my use and climate.

What angles and finish are you comparing the steels at? How dull do you let them get in the testing? I'm pretty sure you are like me and not a 15 degree per side type guy, so it's probably worth mentioning the types of edges you were running when you did your testing so everyone can have a clear picture.

Ah, yes. They are 12 degrees per side with a 15 degree per side microbevel finished up to Green DMT Extra Fine. I've been doing side by side cutting then testing qualitatively and quantitatively for sharpness as I go. So far they are basically even.

[gunmike1]

Is bd1 powder steel? I didn't think it was. I really like it. It's very similar to GIN -1 and 440B and could be within the elemental compositions of both, or very close. I have found it to be similar to S110V in side by side comparisons in edge holding. I would choose it over many steels based on ease of sharpening and cost. I have not tried hard testing for toughness, and my carbon steel knives don't really rust, so that's not an issue for my use and climate.

What angles and finish are you comparing the steels at? How dull do you let them get in the testing? I'm pretty sure you are like me and not a 15 degree per side type guy, so it's probably worth mentioning the types of edges you were running when you did your testing so everyone can have a clear picture.

Ah, yes. They are 12 degrees per side with a 15 degree per side microbevel finished up to Green DMT Extra Fine. I've been doing side by side cutting then testing qualitatively and quantitatively for sharpness as I go. So far they are basically even.

It's always nice to see more people testing. I haven't done any testing where I actually measured sharpness quantitatively (length of edge to slice a weighted twine in my case) in a long time. I'm looking to get back to that. I'd also like to use a scale to measure pushcutting sharpness, but don't want to spend a bunch of money on the BESS set up. What are your methods for putting a number to the sharpness. Sorry for the off topic post.

[me2]

I use a gram scale and thread. I bought a bunch of thread years ago and still use it. I also got a pack of double edged razor blades and check the thread with them when I switch rolls.

[tripscheck'em]

Do XHP or B70P do anything for you?

B70P seems similar to BG-42. No experience with either, or XHP but am interested. The real steels I want are 154cm/440c, or extending BD1 to the paramilitary. It seems that XHP or BD1 would be the most economical choice for Spyderco given previous iterations.

[tripscheck'em]

Why do you want high-chromium?

Do you like 20CV/204p/M390?

Do you like corrosion-proof nitrogen steels like H1 and LC200N?

m390 has too much vanadium for me. I've noticed that high vanadium steels are wily on the fine ceramic and take considerably longer to get comparable results. Before I paid the price for the edge retention by fighting s90v but now Ii have a much tighter schedule due to professional pressures, so I'm no longer interested. Never tried H1, I've always been worried that it has too little carbide, if any.

I'm not calling for the elimination of vanadium steels, just a wider offering of American high chromium steels. Spyderco's VG-10 is a truly great steel but I'd feel like less of a sellout if I could compliment it with 440c, 154cm or BD1.

[Joris Mo]

Para2 sprint in BD1? Doesn't sound like a bad idea.

In frn.

YES!!! :D

and once there's an FRN mold it should also be made in FRN/Cruwear and a couple of others..

FRN Cruwear PM2?? I'll have 3 please.

3 for starters..
(especially in FRN!)

[Joris Mo]

Para2 sprint in BD1? Doesn't sound like a bad idea.

In frn.

YES!!! :D

and once there's an FRN mold it should also be made in FRN/Cruwear and a couple of others..

FRN Cruwear PM2?? I'll have 3 please.

FRN PM2 would be really interesting. I assume it would have to have liners for the compression lock, unlike the Manix 2 and Native 5 LW models...unless they changed the lock type.

I'd take linerless with backlock in any steel! :D

[The Mastiff]

Trips, if you get the opportunity CTS 40CP might be what you are looking at. 440C performance with the bad habits reduced by the powder process. There is always CPM 154 too ( or RWL 34) , the powder version of 154cm. CPM 154 is really nice IMO, and fits into the range you are talking about too.

I don't want to put words in your mouth but essentially you are looking for a high performance stainless that is agreeable with your sharpening needs time and effort wise.

It's a compromise we all find ourselves with to an extent. :)

Joe

[Blerv]

ZDP is the ultimate "high chromium steel" in regards to carbides. Plenty of other steels with lower carbon use it for corrosion resistance, 440C being a classic and AEB-L being a new popular afi option.

It's probably all in my head but my thinner ZDP blades (regained Stretch and Calypso Jr) have the meanest edges. They just seem to bite harder than the rest. Medium grit stones, thin edges and high carbide = scary.

There is a lot of **** AEB-L. I assume its not the easiest to HT, since not that many had master it. And I am afraid since Spyderco is a mass producer they wont make it justice.
But if they make it good, its a win win for a slicer type blade.

It's not easy to do "right" i.e. custom level but one could say the same of any high end steel. Spyderco more often than not gets closer to custom HT's than the average production level. Probably the main thing keeping them from trying is preferences or availability for their volume model. AEB-L won't be the CATRA monster but it would be nice to see in a hard use knife.

[anagarika]

More ZDP, sure! :cool:

AEB-L HT by CWF BCMW (Bluntcut). Can't get any better (at least in couple of years).

[wrdwrght]

Hey, Trips. Can we be clearer on what "high-chromium" means in your book, percentage-wise? And is it carbide-formation or corrosion resistance that has you wanting more? And is American-made what you seek?

Seems to me some comments here, mine included, might be outside your parameters.

[tripscheck'em]

Trips, if you get the opportunity CTS 40CP might be what you are looking at. 440C performance with the bad habits reduced by the powder process. There is always CPM 154 too ( or RWL 34) , the powder version of 154cm. CPM 154 is really nice IMO, and fits into the range you are talking about too.

I don't want to put words in your mouth but essentially you are looking for a high performance stainless that is agreeable with your sharpening needs time and effort wise.

It's a compromise we all find ourselves with to an extent. :)

Joe

Thanks for the recommendation, I actually prefer 440c to 154cm because of the additional corrosion resistance. Has Spyderco ever done cpm154? I know the Manix was once offered in 154cm.

[tripscheck'em]

Hey, Trips. Can we be clearer on what "high-chromium" means in your book, percentage-wise? And is it carbide-formation or corrosion resistance that has you wanting more? And is American-made what you seek?

Seems to me some comments here, mine included, might be outside your parameters.

I mean a steel whose carbide content is based primarily, if not exclusively on chromium. I always prefer stainless in folders because pivot corrosion is aggravating. I had a ZDP-189 Endura and it pretty much lost all of its detent because of pivot rust. The percentage will depend on the carbon content, generally speaking.

[roger-roger]

I mean a steel whose carbide content is based primarily, if not exclusively on chromium. I always prefer stainless in folders because pivot corrosion is aggravating. I had a ZDP-189 Endura and it pretty much lost all of its detent because of pivot rust. The percentage will depend on the carbon content, generally speaking.

I'm with you on this. Its frustrating all the attention to super non-stainless steels, with less attention to stainless.

[wrdwrght]

I'm with you on this. Its frustrating all the attention to super non-stainless steels, with less attention to stainless.

I take your point, if you mean that Spyderco is offering unusual stain-resistant options less frequently than "super non-stainless" ones.

But surely, S30V, XHP, M390, 204P, S90V, S110V, not to forget VG10, are hardly un-super stain-resistant. What they have become, thanks to Sal and Eric, is pretty much commonplace. I'd say "stainless", super and less so, has had plenty of attention.

But, I would certainly not complain if some unusual stain-resistant steels appeared that claim to do something different than the usual ones.

[The Mastiff]

Has Spyderco ever done cpm154? I know the Manix was once offered in 154cm.

I don't believe so. Just the RWL 34 Mules and if I'm not mistaken the lilnikala (?). ATS 34 ( same composition as 154cm, not a powder steel) has also been used.

The real reason I don't favor 440C was it's problems with chippyness at higher hardness/low , thin angles compared to some other steels in the same wear resistance class but that should be solved by the use of the powder process. I've heard good things about this steel but have yet to try a CTS 40CP knife. I do like CPM 154 and have a Buck 110 in it that I like better than my S30V Buck 110 . I have two other knives in CPM 154 so I feel pretty good about recommending it. It's in about the same wear resistance class as 440C and VG10 which is pretty good performance in my estimation. I feel it is also easier to sharpen than S30V , S35vn, etc. The moly carbides seem easier to get along with than Vanadium carbides. Not much different to me than chrome carbides on the SiC or diamond stones I use as best as I can tell.

You are correct in that it has less corrosion resistance than 440C. In fact most stainless steels do. 440C has been kind of a reference standard for that for decades. To get better one has to go to either alloys like H1 or low/non carbon stainless steels that don't make the high performance knives we want.

Good luck. CTS 40CP is still fairly hard to find and I can't think of any production folders made yet. BD1, XHP, VG1 and a bunch of others are worth looking at but I'd doubt they are any better for your purposes than 440C. Boker still makes a bunch of 440C knives but they aren't Spydercos. :) The China made Boker 440C knives seem to be something other than real 440C in my experience so I'd stay away from those if you want a 440C knife. The German made ones should be real 440C and they are still well made. That leaves finding the right design and price which can be tough for a confirmed Spyderco customer.

Joe