MAXAMET VS. GIRLY STEELS

[the-bunker77]

Now that the title got your attention, let's talk about some steel.

Experience shows that vanadium steels (CPM S--V family) generally lose razor edge quickly, but retain very good overall sharpness for a long time. Both very high carbon content and the addition of vanadium try to counter the huge amount of chromium in the alloy, therefore the more vanadium in the mix, the more edge retention, as can be seen in the difference of performance between S30V and S110V.

Following the same line of conclusion, high-vanadium steels with reduced chromium content have less to fight against, and produce even better edge-holding properties, which can be seen in the difference between S--V steels and CPM 15V.

Now, let's take a look at the composition of MAXAMET (omitting silicon).
C 2.15%
Cr 4.75%
W 13% <—
V 6%

Less carbon than S110V, similar low chromium as 15V, 3% less vanadium than S110V... by now it should be, by most means, inferior to S110V. BUT there's 13% tungsten. Tungsten is the whole reason I've been beating around the bush for this long. Tungsten has much harder carbides, as well as rust resistance, so paired with low chromium, it should theoretically stabilize the edge better than high-chromium vanadium steel, S110V.

The question is, does it? Can you guys who've handled MAXAMET blades share some experiences? Some say it falls very close to S110V, in which case it's not enough for me to spend quite more on a grey PM2 instead of a blue one.

[elduderino04]

Lol, well done on the title. I have a Maxamet N5 and S110V Manix LW but haven't put the N5 through its paces yet, so I'll let those more knowledgeable chime in.

My suspicion is that between these uber-maxi-mega-awesome-super steels they'll both perform VERY similarly. I would imagine getting objective feedback will be difficult because Maxamet is the hot new flavor whereas S110V is old news (talk about an embarrassment of riches). To regurgitate Mr. Glesser's quote, they are likely both good, just different.

[bearfacedkiller]

I have used both a bunch. I very much prefer Maxamet. The difference in hardness is quite significant so the difference in composition is only part of the story. S110V is one of the most stainless steels I have used and Maxamet is somewhere in the middle of the spectrum and for me it needs minding. Anecdotal evidence points towards s110v being more durable but I have used both a lot and not had issues with either. They both have ridiculous wear resistance but I really like the way Maxamet sharpens so for now I prefer it.

I do not agree about a few other things you said but, hey, we all have different theories here.

[Cheddarnut]

How do you define girly?

[the-bunker77]

No worries there, these are only my own conclusions based on reading composition charts. See, what I need from a knife is to cut and nothing more, so really all I'm looking for is solid edge retention. Despite how many amazing alloys are out there, I've had a hard time finding one with truly solid edge holding, because if in reality I have to touch up a knife often, all "super-steels" might as well be AUS-8... So I'm trying to find out if MAXAMET holds an edge better than S110V by far, not just about the same. Would you agree with that based on your experience?

[toomzz]

Interesting, what does that 13% tungsten do on the toughness of the steel compared to S110V? Less prone to chipping?

[Surfingringo]

For most knives I would prefer Maxamet to s110v. It responds much better to sharpening and it is easier to bring it to high levels of sharpness at any given grit. This difference is especially notable when making touch ups to a microbevel. The downside is the steel is a bit less stain resistant than I thought it would be. So far, I have found Maxamet to be slightly more corrosion prone than m4 so it does require more care. S110v on the other hand is VERY corrosion resistant so in a knife where corrosion might be an issue I would go with s110v. Anything else I would prefer Maxamet.

P.S. I still prefer Cruwear to either one.

[bearfacedkiller]

No worries. These discussions always bring out many different theories and opinions. :)

What steels have you used that didn't meet your needs? Have you used S110V and found it inadequate? In my opinion it should be able to meet anyone's needs. That said, I do think that I am seeing a noticable difference in edge retention between the two with Maxamet having a considerable advantage.

Are you sharpening yourself? This is just my theory but I think that many people who are seeing subpar results with these super steels may not be sharpening them as well as they could be. This is just one possibility though and other factors could be coming into play as well.

[the-bunker77]

Interesting, what does that 13% tungsten do on the toughness of the steel compared to S110V? Less prone to chipping?

Not sure about toughness, especially considering much less chromium, but from what I read, it's supposed to form much harder carbides and therefore contribute to better edge support. From my experience with S30V especially, I had an impression (though my reasons for it could be wrong), that it was high chromium that renders the edge unable to retain razor sharpness, despite retaining good overall sharpness (thanks to vanadium). With tungsten carbides added, there is a speculation it should produce an opposite effect—prevent the edge from losing razor sharpness quickly.

bearfacedkiller,
I've used a number of common steels, from carbon steels like C75, X95, to stainless like the 440 range, AUS-8, AUS-10, VG-10, S30V and S90V. Like some folks, I've seen a good difference in edge holding between the last two, and reportedly S110V takes it to the next level following the same tendency. I'm getting ready to buy a PM2, either S110V or MAXAMET, that's why I'm causing turmoil here. I know that S110V will definitely hold a great edge, no doubts about it... but if MAXAMET does it better not by a margin, then I'll spend more on it.

You're right about the inconsistent performance when sharpening, especially the case with abrasion-resistant vanadium steels and other sophisticated alloys that require much higher grade of sharpening tools. I sharpen myself and have been for a few years, but I'm not an expert, that's for sure. I've had pretty good luck sharpening S--V blades on diamond stones, but if MAXAMET sharpens easier (thanks to tungsten—I assume—since it still has 6% vanadium that makes sharpening harder on S--V steels), then I'm even more eager to try it. :)

[ZrowsN1s]

Lulz I thought this was going to be a "my knife can cut your knife in half" thread. :D

[bearfacedkiller]

If you do not need the corrosion resistance of S110V then I say get the Maxamet. I do not personally think that S110V is that much different than S90V. I wouldn't say that S110V is on the next level over S90V. If S90V was not quite what you wanted or if you want to try something a lot different then go for the Maxamet.

Welcome to the forum!!! I forgot that part. :) And you are not creating any turmoil.

[The Deacon]

Now that the title got your attention, let's talk about some steel.

I drive a girly little roadster, and prefer knives that look like pocket jewelry rather than something most suitable for carry while wearing camo clothing and face paint, so it's no surprise that my favorite steel is VG-10. :p

[the-bunker77]

Thanks bear, and nice talking to you. :) I've never handled S110V, so if it doesn't fall far from 90, no point in getting it just to find out I should've tried MAXAMET. By the way, I just checked the composition for 90 and 110, only to discover that they're the same steel as far as vanadium content, only 110 having +.6% carbon. This is what happens when you check with the hype before you check with the chart. :D Well then... If I had to choose between S90V with slightly more carbon, and MAXAMET... then the whole point of this thread would be gone, he he.

And thanks for sharing your info, Surfingringo, it indeed confirms what I've learned today thanks to you guys.

How do you define girly?

Now that the title got your attention, let's talk about some steel.

I drive a girly little roadster, and prefer knives that look like pocket jewelry rather than something most suitable for carry while wearing camo clothing and face paint, so it's no surprise that my favorite steel is VG-10. :p

My wife carries a pink Dragonfly 2 in VG-10 (to me it has a silhouette of a running squirrel ), and I love that little thing. Since unlike me, she's an adult, she has the understanding of completely no need for buying space-age steels like MAXAMET... unlike me. :D

[dreadpirate]

Are you sharpening yourself? This is just my theory but I think that many people who are seeing subpar results with these super steels may not be sharpening them as well as they could be. This is just one possibility though and other factors could be coming into play as well.

When I see subpar results THE FIRST thing I blame is my sharpening. I am - er ah- a bit of a sharpening klutz.

[npad69]

****, i just realized i have a lot of girly steeled knives right now. Maybe its time to man-up my collection. Can you guys consider cruwear as manly enough?

[attila]

Thanks bear, and nice talking to you. :) I've never handled S110V, so if it doesn't fall far from 90, no point in getting it just to find out I should've tried MAXAMET. By the way, I just checked the composition for 90 and 110, only to discover that they're the same steel as far as vanadium content, only 110 having +.6% carbon...

Careful with such assertions.

S110V has not only 0.5% more C, but it also has at least
1% more Cr,
3% Nb,
2% Mo, and
2.5% Co

These cumulatively have a complicated impact on the characteristics of the resulting alloy vs S90V, i.e. it's not as simple as you suggest. I have no actual experience with S90V, so I invite any who do to comment on it.

http://www.crucible.com/PDFs%5CDataShee ... v12010.pdf http://www.crucible.com/PDFs/DataSheets ... 202010.pdf

S110V is supposed to have similar (but better) wear resistance compared to S90V, but its composition is considerably different, and it is impossible to quantify without testing.

****, i just realized i have a lot of girly steeled knives right now. Maybe its time to man-up my collection. Can you guys consider cruwear as manly enough?

CPM Cru-wear is certainly manly enough.

[elena86]

I wish to adress a " legend " : " it's very difficult to bring S110V to a high level of sharpness ". I just use the corners of the fine SM rods and continue with the corners of the UF SM rods.In fact I only use one rod and do it free hand.I am talking micro-bevel here but after using this protocol the blade is insanly sharp as in " hair spliting sharp".The idea is to do this once in a while and not to let the edge dull under a certain level.As a side note : I am not a highly skilled sharpener an I lack patience, plus I never use strops.The protocol I just described only takes 10 minutes to complete, a firm hand and consistency and never, ever use the flat sides of the rods.

Marius

[toomzz]

Stropping takes a long time on high chromium stainless steels. When needed I reprofile my blades in my wicked edge with diamond plates and ceramics and finish with indeed, as Marius stated, the edges of UF Spyderco rod, free hand. It takes long to make S110V razor again IMHO and experience as well.
Off topic: @ Marius; you should try stropping on toolsteels like M4 and Superblue, it gets unhealthy sharp :D

This why I am so curious about Maxamet. I am wondering how it reacts in resharpening and particular when stropping. And how it compares (sorry off topic) to Crucible's M4.

[krikun98]

never, ever use the flat sides of the rods.

Could you elaborate on that, please? Because in my free-hand experience I was able to get a mirror polish on the UF's flat side.
By the way, constantly putting on a microbevel creates a problem in the long term - sooner or later you'll have to reprofile the blade. And as a person who has experience reprofiling M4 - you do not want to do that with the sharpmaker. Even with the diamonds it takes literally forever.

@ Marius; you should try stropping on toolsteels like M4 and Superblue, it gets unhealthy sharp

**** yes to that. Recently sharpened a Super Blue Endura and man, that thing's scary. M4... well, I have only sharpened Benchmade's, and it's my favorite steel. Yesterday I got my M4 Military. Can't wait.

[bpahk]

never, ever use the flat sides of the rods.

Could you elaborate on that, please? Because in my free-hand experience I was able to get a mirror polish on the UF's flat side.

I'm also curious to hear why you only use the corners. For touch ups, I also free hand with a single SM rod but use only the flats as this has given me consistently better results.