The idea of an updated Civilian has been discussed in a thread or two this week, and it sounded like Sal was on board with the idea if interest was there.
sal wrote:Hi Afterman,
First I would do an evolution of the design, work out bugs and gauge demand. I guess we can discuss what the "upgrades" or "improvements" would be?
I would make the tip stronger, Probably go full flat, I've thought about other locks, but I really like some of the features of a lock-back.
sal
I thought what better way to gauge interest than a Poll?
Please forgive the limited number of options in the Poll (the limit is 10 items per poll).
IF YOU HAVE OTHER IDEAS FOR CIVILIAN UPGRADES PLEASE POST THEM IN THE COMMENTS BELOW!
And whether you would prefer FFG or not! :D
1. Making a Salt version of the Civilian actually makes a lot of sense. It's primarily carried a lot and not used often, anyone working in/around the ocean would probably appreciate the Civilian Salt, and you always hear about people going jogging complaining about corrosion from sweat.
LC200N might be an even better choice than H-1.
2. Given that the knife is already over 4", if Sal could dial it to "11" and make a 5" Civilian (linerless G-10 Back Lock), that would be my ideal configuration.
I dont see how it could get any better, really. My personal preference would be to put a wave on it like the Matriarch 2 and leave everything else the same except maybe add some jimping on the thumb ramp. Not sure why anyone would want to go to FRN on that one and lose lateral strength. It is, after all, a slashing weapon and certainly not an EDC knife.
I voted linerless, back lock, "Salt FRN" and I'd be happy with both H1 and LC200N.
I think that's the steel to have on such a blade with such a purpose. Linerless to be low weight and carry friendly, FRN becase it's cheap but reliable
T-1000 wrote:I dont see how it could get any better, really. My personal preference would be to put a wave on it like the Matriarch 2 and leave everything else the same except maybe add some jimping on the thumb ramp. Not sure why anyone would want to go to FRN on that one and lose lateral strength. It is, after all, a slashing weapon and certainly not an EDC knife.
I hoping very very much that this one of the main issue addressed in the redesign. I would like to see this blade built stout enough for EDC. Making the tip stronger and the blade thicker might help, steel upgrades will help this as well. I think for SE, H1 will bring the best edge retention combined with Strength and complete corrosion resistance. For plain edge ZDP 189 will make a great EDC steel as well, one of my favorites.
Although Super Blue would be awesome :D
-Matta.k.a. Lo_Que, loadedquestions135I ❤ The P'KAL
"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
OK I've participated in the poll. However I really thought that the overall selections offered had a few things to be desired :confused: I did vote for the following: Compression Lock, H-1 blade steel, Carbon Fiber handle material. But I thought that some of the newer supersteels should have been on the list. I also thought that LC200N blade steel should have been an option with it's growing popularity.
I also have thought for years that colored G-10 handles would be ideal for the Civilian model. I've thought at times that Micarta would be an ideal handle material for the Civilian model ( especially a new rendition like Civilian 2). The locking system really isn't that big of a deal to me personally because the Civi I own has the original "lockback" system and I've never had a problem with it.
I would also like to have seen the options of either a stonewashed blade or an ion fused blade with a black Boron Carbide coating. Also titanium liners would be apropos for such a much wanted new model IMO.
JD Spydo wrote:OK I've participated in the poll. However I really thought that the overall selections offered had a few things to be desired :confused: I did vote for the following: Compression Lock, H-1 blade steel, Carbon Fiber handle material. But I thought that some of the newer supersteels should have been on the list. I also thought that LC200N blade steel should have been an option with it's growing popularity.
I also have thought for years that colored G-10 handles would be ideal for the Civilian model. I've thought at times that Micarta would be an ideal handle material for the Civilian model ( especially a new rendition like Civilian 2). The locking system really isn't that big of a deal to me personally because the Civi I own has the original "lockback" system and I've never had a problem with it.
I would also like to have seen the options of either a stonewashed blade or an ion fused blade with a black Boron Carbide coating. Also titanium liners would be apropos for such a much wanted new model IMO.
Yes, I too would have liked to have included more options in the Poll, it limits you to only 10 . Since my options were limited I went with steels currently being used in Seki where I thought the civilian would be made. Even still I had to leave Seki steels like Hap 40 and Super Blue off the Poll. How ever if production were moved to Golden and the Civilian was made into a compression lock (or other lock type) folder capable of edc use, LC200N, Maxamet, S110V, S30V, and the other Golden steels become available as options.
Colored Handles was another option I wanted to include as well.
To Everyone, if you want something not on the list, a handle color, lock-type, a steel, a flipper, what ever You would like to see in a new Civilian, just mention it in the comments. :)
-Matta.k.a. Lo_Que, loadedquestions135I ❤ The P'KAL
"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
Hey "ZROW" that HAP 40 would be a really good selection for a Civilian 2 model. And like I said earlier the locking system they already have always worked well for me. Now I'll just be outright honest with you guys>> yes I would like to see a new Civilian 2 model but for years now I've preferred the Matriarch model way ahead of the Civilian model. The CIVI just doesn't fit my hand like the MATRIARCH model does. I would really love to see a really high end, beefed up version of the Matriarch.
For years now I've said many times that a Matriarch with a colored G-10 handle would be really cool. I would love to see a MATRIARCH model with a considerably thicker blade>> because I beleive a MATRIARCH with a thicker blade would be a really vicious SD blade and you could do some major damage with it.
Even though I like the CIVI and will probably always keep the one I currently have I'll always far prefer the MATRIARCH for self defense>> because it fits me like a glove and I feel like I have much more control with it. The MATRIARCH and my C-60 Massad Ayoob models are by far my two favorite self defense knives. Here where I currently in Kansas City MO USA Earth we've had about 6 people recent be murdered on these running, bicycle and walking trails we have throughout the city. It's been a "high alert" and very scary situation going on here in KC and I've been arming myself considerably more than usual and I've actually been carrying my VG-10 MATRIARCH model a lot lately.
Afterman wrote:A linerless FRN handle Civilian would be crazy lightweight for it's size. :)
Maybe LC200N to get the FFG blade while being salty.
A plain edge LC200N FFG, or H1 SE Civilian "Salt" would be very useful for EDC.
JD Spydo wrote:Hey "ZROW" that HAP 40 would be a really good selection for a Civilian 2 model. And like I said earlier the locking system they already have always worked well for me. Now I'll just be outright honest with you guys>> yes I would like to see a new Civilian 2 model but for years now I've preferred the Matriarch model way ahead of the Civilian model. The CIVI just doesn't fit my hand like the MATRIARCH model does. I would really love to see a really high end, beefed up version of the Matriarch...
I hope that they revisit the entire Reverse -S "family", including the Matriarch, waved Matriarch, and Lil Matriarch. It's a great blade shape, it just needs some beefing up, and streamlining.
-Matta.k.a. Lo_Que, loadedquestions135I ❤ The P'KAL
"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
Matriarch 2 Salt: Linerless FRN, H1 steel. Better designed for EDC, but also gives us a tactical salt folder.
Civilian 2: Moved to Golden, Colorado. Compression lock & G10 handles. CTS-BD1 steel, since it's only meant to be used in self defense situations, no reason to use a pricey steel. Besides, sprint runs are always a possibility for those wanting carbon fiber, exotic new steels, etc.
Afterman wrote:Maybe we could split the two main ideas.
Matriarch 2 Salt: Linerless FRN, H1 steel. Better designed for EDC, but also gives us a tactical salt folder.
Civilian 2: Moved to Golden, Colorado. Compression lock & G10 handles. CTS-BD1 steel, since it's only meant to be used in self defense situations, no reason to use a pricey steel. Besides, sprint runs are always a possibility for those wanting carbon fiber, exotic new steels, etc.
I would like to see a razor blade steel like AEB-L. It seems that in a specialist self defence knife intended for slashing, extreme sharpness is much more important than edge retention.
Other than that: low angle would be nice for the same reason. carbon fibre is undesirable unless it can be full thickness CF (not peel-ply). Not a fan of plain edge - it would get hung up on fabric very easily. Easier to sharpen, but much less effective.
I also like the "5 inch Civilian" idea. Dream knife.
I like the idea of making the tip stronger .. the civilian is a great looking model .. I've never had one but would definitely pick one up that's been upgraded since the original design
. Since my options were limited I went with steels currently being used in Seki where I thought the civilian would be made. Even still I had to leave Seki steels like Hap 40 and Super Blue off the Poll. How ever if production were moved to Golden and the Civilian was made into a compression lock (or other lock type) folder capable of edc use, LC200N, Maxamet, S110V, S30V, and the other Golden steels become available as options.