What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

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toeterbaas
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What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

Postby toeterbaas » Thu May 18, 2017 4:19 pm

I have a hard time sharpening my vg10 knives.
I want a knife with easier to sharp steel.
Anyone recommed one?
i see this vg1
http://www.coldsteel.com/pendleton-mini-hunter.html

Is this easier to sharpen?
I mean i get my victorynox razorsharp in a minute
Last edited by toeterbaas on Thu May 18, 2017 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Holland
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Re: What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

Postby Holland » Thu May 18, 2017 4:22 pm

Super blue is probably the easiest from my experience.

VG10 is one of the easier steels to sharpen, how are you sharpening?
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Re: What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

Postby toeterbaas » Thu May 18, 2017 4:23 pm

Holland wrote:Super blue is probably the easiest from my experience.

VG10 is one of the easier steels to sharpen, how are you sharpening?
I am sharpening with the diamond rods brown rods and white rods.
This thing wont get a good edge , And when its sharp the tip end is dull as hell
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Re: What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

Postby Bloke » Thu May 18, 2017 4:24 pm

What type of problems are you having?
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Re: What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

Postby toeterbaas » Thu May 18, 2017 4:26 pm

Bloke wrote:What type of problems are you having?
i did this before
And now i cant get it sharp anymore.
I dont know what i do wrong :(
Whatever i do the tip end stays dull

so...
1. With the diamond rods (Flats) in the 30 degree slots make alternating passes until you have a nice clean apex along your entire edge. If your bevels are uneven or you need to remove a lot of steel (this means you toeterbass) then you are probably better working one side at a time until you can feel a burr on each side.There are many ways to determine if you have an apex...use your thumb, magic marker the edge bevel, feel or look for a burr. Depending on where your edge bevel was when you started, this step can take a few minutes or an hour. Do not move on from this step until you have a clean apex along the entire edge!
2. From there, if you want, you can choose to work through the stones on the 30 degree setting. This is not necessary but will polish up the bevel a bit and can help to remove any burr if you didn't get a clean apex.
3. Next insert the brown rods (flats) into the 40 degree setting. Now you are adding a microbevel. This will quickly clean up the apex and give you a very high level of sharpness. It only takes a few light passes. Start with a half dozen light passes on the flats of the browns and check your edge. That might be all it takes.
4. From there you can refine your edge by working through the fine/uf rods at the 40 degree setting. Remember, at this point you are working on a tiny microbevel so it takes very little pressure and very few passes to have an effect.
5. Ta-dah....now your pocket knife is whittling hairs.

Hope this helps some. As I said, others will come along with other ideas and techniques...all of which will be valid. I just wanted to lay out a simple formula. If you correctly do what I lined out above you will be able to get all your knives sharper than "factory". Remember...Do not skimp on step 1. Thats really the entire sharpening process. The rest is just cleaning up and refining the edge you created. Unless you get the first step right, none of the other steps will have any effect.
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Re: What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

Postby Bodog » Thu May 18, 2017 5:21 pm

It's not a matter of one steel being easier to sharpen than another. It's about having an understanding of what's happening at the edge and using the right tools in the right way get to the edge. Once that's done THEN you can ask which steel is the least wear resistant knowing that you're properly sharpening to begin with.
Last edited by Bodog on Thu May 18, 2017 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

Postby toeterbaas » Thu May 18, 2017 5:22 pm

Bodog wrote:It's not a matter of one steel being easier to sharpen than another. It's about having an understanding of what's happening at the edge and using the right tools in the right way get to the edge.
Thanks for the answer.
I tried it again now it is razorsharp again !
put some more diamonds
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Re: What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Thu May 18, 2017 5:48 pm

Yeah Toeter, don't get caught up in blaming the steel or the tools. VG10 isn't too hard. It isn't your SAK and it isn't 1095 but it still is a steel that you should be able to sharpen with ease. Just keep trying!

The only one of Spyderco's regular production steels that would be easier is BD1 but you will likely still have issues with it too. Without being rude, this is operator error.

Keep at it and ask any questions you have. We are here to help. :)

Just raise that bur at 30 degrees on one side and then on the other and then debur at 40 degrees with the brown rods with alternating passes. One per side. Once the bur is gone you are sharp. Remember to use light pressure when deburring and keep the angle of your strokes consistant.
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Re: What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

Postby wrdwrght » Thu May 18, 2017 6:34 pm

I'd say plain-edge H1 is the easiest to sharpen. I'd also say it can't hold even a working edge.
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Re: What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

Postby npad69 » Thu May 18, 2017 6:41 pm

H1 and 8cr13mov is easier to sharpen based on my experience, vg10 should be straightforward enough even with just the plain medium and fine stones. Make sure to watch the accompanying dvd on the sharpmaker first if that is your sharpening system

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Re: What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

Postby Koop » Thu May 18, 2017 7:38 pm

toeterbaas wrote:
Bloke wrote:What type of problems are you having?
i did this before
And now i cant get it sharp anymore.
I dont know what i do wrong :(
Whatever i do the tip end stays dull

so...
1. With the diamond rods (Flats) in the 30 degree slots make alternating passes until you have a nice clean apex along your entire edge. If your bevels are uneven or you need to remove a lot of steel (this means you toeterbass) then you are probably better working one side at a time until you can feel a burr on each side.There are many ways to determine if you have an apex...use your thumb, magic marker the edge bevel, feel or look for a burr. Depending on where your edge bevel was when you started, this step can take a few minutes or an hour. Do not move on from this step until you have a clean apex along the entire edge!
2. From there, if you want, you can choose to work through the stones on the 30 degree setting. This is not necessary but will polish up the bevel a bit and can help to remove any burr if you didn't get a clean apex.
3. Next insert the brown rods (flats) into the 40 degree setting. Now you are adding a microbevel. This will quickly clean up the apex and give you a very high level of sharpness. It only takes a few light passes. Start with a half dozen light passes on the flats of the browns and check your edge. That might be all it takes.
4. From there you can refine your edge by working through the fine/uf rods at the 40 degree setting. Remember, at this point you are working on a tiny microbevel so it takes very little pressure and very few passes to have an effect.
5. Ta-dah....now your pocket knife is whittling hairs.

Hope this helps some. As I said, others will come along with other ideas and techniques...all of which will be valid. I just wanted to lay out a simple formula. If you correctly do what I lined out above you will be able to get all your knives sharper than "factory". Remember...Do not skimp on step 1. Thats really the entire sharpening process. The rest is just cleaning up and refining the edge you created. Unless you get the first step right, none of the other steps will have any effect.
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Re: What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

Postby JD Spydo » Thu May 18, 2017 8:21 pm

Holland wrote:Super blue is probably the easiest from my experience.

VG10 is one of the easier steels to sharpen, how are you sharpening?
Yeah I was going to say that I've found VG-10 relatively easy to attain a super sharp edge compared to many of the other blade steels that Spyderco has used over the years. I still really love VG-10 and own a lot of "users" with that blade steel>> it's a really dependable hard use blade steel as well.

VG-10 is also one of the few blade steels that excels both in plain edge and Spyderedge both.

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Re: What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

Postby qazy » Thu May 18, 2017 9:03 pm

Almost any carbon steel will be easier.
Also 440, AUS-8, AEB-L, and many more.

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Re: What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

Postby JD Spydo » Thu May 18, 2017 9:26 pm

qazy wrote:Almost any carbon steel will be easier.
Also 440, AUS-8, AEB-L, and many more.
I have several blades made from AUS-8 and I don't find it easier to sharpen than VG-10 :confused: But my point is this>> VG-10 is in no way a difficult blade steel to sharpen>> either in plain edge or serrated edge either one are nice to work with.

For the overall great performance I get from my VG-10 blades I have no complaints at all>> it's even sort of corrosion resistant too. I believe it was Sal himself that said VG-10 was a steel that the Japanese used in agricultural type tools and they later on discovered it to be a great blade steel for cutlery as well. I believe ATS-34 came about pretty much the same way except it was used in Japanese aviation.

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Re: What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

Postby qazy » Thu May 18, 2017 9:36 pm

I never said VG10 is hard to sharpen I just gave examples of easier steels in my opinion.

The feel on the stones and the perception of ease/difficulty will depend on steel's HT as well, thats something to keep in mind.

As for VG10 it has a fame of stubborn burrs, even though, personally, I find it on par with many other stainless.

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Re: What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

Postby The Mastiff » Thu May 18, 2017 10:45 pm

Vg1 is similar to Vg10 in sharpening. In non stainless steels I like Super Blue, O-1, 1095, SK5, etc. All easy with Super Blue taking an extra special slicey biting edge probably because of the tungsten carbides.

In stainless VG10 is pretty easy with Aus 8 and then Aus 6 and 12C and 13c sandvik stainless steels getting easier as they go. The Byrd line 8C is really nice to sharpen on and I usually give that to people who want to learn sharpening. That is the stainless steel I give them first after trying them out on a simple carbon steel first like the Mercator K55 Black Kat or Douk Douk type knives ( carbon steel at around rc 64-66, about as easy as it gets)

Enjoy. I like Sharpening and find it relaxing.

Edit: I meant carbon steel at rc 54-56. Big difference. :)
Last edited by The Mastiff on Fri May 19, 2017 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

Postby TomAiello » Thu May 18, 2017 11:29 pm

BD-1 is a good "easy" steel to practice sharpening on.

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Re: What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

Postby VashHash » Fri May 19, 2017 6:55 am

The Mastiff wrote: I like Sharpening and find it relaxing.
I agree with this. I find it meditative. Just focus on the edge and let the world around you disappear. Forget about your problems. You're here for the edge now.



Sometimes you need to take a break too and then come back to it.

Remember you might want to sharpen a knife in 5 strokes but sometimes it can take a while. I sharpen freehand and find it very relaxing. More so than swiping around 2 rods in a base at a set angle.

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Re: What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

Postby fanglekai » Fri May 19, 2017 3:08 pm

The main thing to remember is if you aren't hitting the very apex of the blade, you aren't sharpening. Most of the time grinds aren't perfectly even from the factory (no matter what brand). You might have 14 degrees on one side and 15 degrees on another, or maybe it's 18 and 17, or whatever. The first step of sharpening is to get the bevels (mostly) even at whatever angle you want. I saw Cliff Stamp call that part "shaping". Once you get the bevels shaped and you can hit the apex at the angle you want, then you're ready to actually sharpen.

Keep in mind that the Sharpmaker is sloowwww for "shaping" the bevels. You also need the angles to be a bit lower than the 30 or 40 degree setting otherwise you won't be hitting the apex. So you want 14-14.5 degrees per side for the 30 degree setting and 19-19.5 dps for the 40 degree setting. Or some choose to sharpen at 15 dps and put a 20 dps microbevel on the edge with a few strokes.

You might try using a Sharpie to mark the bevels and see where you're removing metal. Aside from what I've posted, you just have to practice your technique. Slow, low pressure strokes. Don't let the tip slide off the stone.

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Re: What steel is better to sharpen then vg10?

Postby awa54 » Fri May 19, 2017 3:13 pm

toeterbaas wrote:I have a hard time sharpening my vg10 knives.
I want a knife with easier to sharp steel.
Anyone recommed one?
i see this vg1
http://www.coldsteel.com/pendleton-mini-hunter.html

Is this easier to sharpen?
I mean i get my victorynox razorsharp in a minute
toeterbaas wrote:I have a hard time sharpening my vg10 knives.
I want a knife with easier to sharp steel.
Anyone recommed one?
i see this vg1
http://www.coldsteel.com/pendleton-mini-hunter.html

Is this easier to sharpen?
I mean i get my victorynox razorsharp in a minute

---

I am sharpening with the diamond rods brown rods and white rods.
This thing wont get a good edge , And when its sharp the tip end is dull as hell
IMO, VG-10 is fairly easy to get a solid working edge on, but the final degree of sharpness is a bit more difficult compared to HC steel or some other stainless steels, that said, getting a really blazing finished edge on VG-10 is much easier with the Sharpmaker than by doing it freehand, at least for me.

I don't have any experience with CS VG1, but I recently sharpened a VG1 kitchen knife for a friend and it was challenging to work with in comparison to other simple alloy stainless steels, the burr didn't behave like any other steel I have sharpened...

By "the tip end" do you mean the very tip of the blade, or the entire forward sweep of the edge as it rises to the tip?
Using the Sharpmaker on knives that have very acute points, or that have an edge that rises fairly abruptly to the point can be challenging... if you have either of these blade shapes I would suggest working the point of the knife with push strokes on the rods instead of pull strokes as demonstrated in the SM instructions; start with the point on the flat of the stone and push down and forward to at least the half way point of the blade, similarly, when working from the heel of the blade, stop short of letting the tip slide off of the end of the rod, since this rounds the tip upward and changes the angle of the grind at the point.

The Sharpie is your friend ;)
-David

still more knives than sharpening stones...


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