New Blade Steels For Spyderedges??

[JD Spydo]

With all the added selection of new blade steels we've been blessed with the past few years has made our favorite hobby much more intriguing without a doubt. Also without any doubt some of these newer supersteels and tool steels have really enhanced many of the plain edged mainline models like the C-36 Military and several others I could mention. Personally I love M390 blade steel and it truly performs nearly perfect on two of my EDC Spyders. Just out of curiosity I would love to see how M390 might perform in Spyderedge.

However there's been very little said at all on how some of these newer blade steels might perform in Spyderedge. Now I'll certainly agree with many of you that many of these extremely hard steels may not even be suitable for decent performance on Spyderedged models. Albeit I do think that there are some very interesting possibilities right in front of us. Because I've wondered for some time now about how some of these newer steels would perform in Spyderedge.

For instance I truly believe that CTS-XHP has some interesting properties that I believe would be good in Spyderedge. We also have a newer nitrogen based blade steel known as LC200N which I believe would probably be great in Spyderedge. Now you can also mention which older blade steels you thought were good in Spyderedge and how they might compare with some of these newer blade steels

So what blade steels would you all like to see offered in Spyderedge? Also which Spyderco models would you all like to see in Spyderedge with newer/better blade steels? You could name which model with which particular blade steel that you think would be ideal?

[jdw]

I would love to see a reverse S Dragonfly SE in ZDP. That would be completely awesome. In fact I wish they would bring back a whole run of ZDP SE. I know that it was said to be prone to chipping but I missed out the first time around and I would be willing to take my chances.

[JD Spydo]

I would love to see a reverse S Dragonfly SE in ZDP. That would be completely awesome. In fact I wish they would bring back a whole run of ZDP SE. I know that it was said to be prone to chipping but I missed out the first time around and I would be willing to take my chances.

I thought the same thing at one time about ZDP-189 when it first came out but I remember that Spyderco themselves saying that ZDP-189 didn't work out that well because they experienced that it had brittle properties to it Albeit I've heard some of the guys who still have a ZDP-189 serrated Endura swear that it performed well for them.

It's kind of a twist of irony in a way because in the past some of the blade steels that I've found to perform well in Spyderedge really were not that exceptional in plain edge. Some of the past blade steels that I loved in Spyderedge are ATS-55, AUS-8, 440V, and even GIN-1 all did well in Spyderedge but none of them really impressed me that much in plain edge. My Spyderedged Catcherman in AUS-8 is still one of my favorite kitchen knives that I've used for years now.

[VashHash]

All i can say is according to research by spyderco. Nothing matches H1 in serrated form. That being said, I would still like to experience steels like S90V and S110V. K390 would be interesting. I'm guessing that doing these steels in serrated would up the cost considerably in grinding.

[JD Spydo]

All i can say is according to research by spyderco. Nothing matches H1 in serrated form. That being said, I would still like to experience steels like S90V and S110V. K390 would be interesting. I'm guessing that doing these steels in serrated would up the cost considerably in grinding.

There is no argument that H-1 currently holds the title of being the champion of serrated edges as of this time. Albeit I do think that there are other blade steels out there that could also be good for serrated edges. I've had a gut feeling for some time that XHP has properties that could make for a great Spyderedges. I could be wrong on that call but I've noticed in the past that the blade steels that have historically made good blade steel for Spyderedges tend to have a lot of toughness properties.

Also in the case of ZDP-189 you have a super hard blade steel which didn't have desirable properties for serrated edges as we discovered. I would suspect that would also be the case for some of the ones you've mentioned Vash. Particularly S90V and S110V I'm certain would have properties good for plain edges but no so good for Spyderedges IMO.

[Halfneck]

jdw - I have the fully serrated ZDP-189 Delica - not an ideal combo. It's held an edge for a long time, BUT I have micro-chips along the edge. It's like my serrations have serrations.

CTS-XHP might be interesting.

[JAfromMN]

Zdp189 fa delica and fs zdp endura have been by far my two most used spyderco.

The only time I had a issue is when I dropped my endura on a ceramic tile floor and chipped a few teeth good. I sent it in and they fixed it quick. I learned it will chip if abused .

[JD Spydo]

Zdp189 fa delica and fs zdp endura have been by far my two most used spyderco.

The only time I had a issue is when I dropped my endura on a ceramic tile floor and chipped a few teeth good. I sent it in and they fixed it quick. I learned it will chip if abused .

considering that Spyderco themselves said that ZDP-189 wasn't that great for Spyderedges I find it amazing that I've talked to so many people that actually own a Spyderedged ZDP-189 blade and most of them actually rave about them. I've also talked to some guys that didn't like their older Golden, CO USA EArth made Spyders with 440V because of it being a bit difficult to sharpen>> but ironically I actually find 440V to be a great blade steel for Spyderedges. It being difficult to sharpen really doesn't dissuade me at all from using it.

I actually find ZDP-189 easier to sharpen than 440V>> but I do find ZDP-189 to be a premium blade steel for plain edges myself.

[JAfromMN]

I think its to hard on there equipment

[JD Spydo]

I think its to hard on there equipment

Oh no "JA from MN" I respectfully disagree with you on that one>> because I've talked to some folks at Spyderco that told me over the phone that they had bad chipping problems with Spyderedged ZDP-189 units. They also told me that they had problems not only with the teeth chipping on that blade steel but that they found it was hard to work with too.

As much as I like my two ZDP-189 Spyders I personally wouldn't even want one in Spyderedge for several reasons. One big reason is that there are so many really great blade steels that they could use for Spyderedges that to me it just doesn't even make sense when you have H-1 and other blade steels that excel in that area. I would take an H-1 blade in SE or AUS-8 in SE anyday before I would embark on one with ZDP-189.

[The Mastiff]

I'm another that had tiny chips in serrated ZDP. I have no idea where they came from. they were just there one day. I look at things from the perspective of what has worked good and what didn't. Gin 1 was my favorite serration steel with ATS 55 next. ATS 55 seemed easier to sharpen and Gin 1 had somewhat better wear resistance. Both are in .90 to .100% carbon with Gin 1 being cleaner and better grained than any stainless including 440C I had tried up to that point. It was the first stainless I'd carry to be honest.

I think going too high on the carbon and/or carbide fraction would bring on the effect we saw with ZDP so a steel somewhere in that range ( .80-.105% carbon) is where I would look.

I believe Spyderco likely has the greatest body of knowledge of actual trials and testing steel for serrations and other performance parameters so pretty much anything they bring out I'd be satisfied with other than 8C ( too low hardness for my taste). I'm not a serrated guy anyways. I don't even have a VG10 serrated knife.

My guesses with no testing or experience would place 3V at the center of the steels I see as having the correct compromises and attributes for superior serrations to what is already available. Does anybody want serrated 3V though?

Joe L.

[JD Spydo]

I'm another that had tiny chips in serrated ZDP. Gin 1 was my favorite serration steel with ATS 55 next.

I believe Spyderco likely has the greatest body of knowledge of actual trials and testing steel for serrations I don't even have a VG10 serrated knife.

My guesses with no testing or experience would place 3V at the center of the steels I see as having the correct compromises and attributes for superior serrations to what is already available. Does anybody want serrated 3V though?

From one Joe to Another :D I couldn't agree with you more on some of the things you brought up in this post Not to mention that it's really timely because I have virtually the same thread over at bladeforums too. I couldn't agree more about your assessment of GIN-1 being great for serrations but not so good for plain edges. I also concur with you on ATS-55 being a great steel for Spyderedges and I've been EDCing my ATS-55 Stainless handled, Spyderedged RESCUE model for most of this year so far and I've really enjoyed using it. It's truly a "Salt Water Crocidile" of a knife and I'm not exaggerating in the least.

Really timely that you mention the possibility of 3V being a great candidate for Spyderedges because one of the guys over at the Bladeforums thread said the exact same thing earlier today. Also in my gut I feel the same way about XHP being a great possible steel for Spyderedges and I base that on it's toughness properties.

Oh believe me VG-10 does make a good steel for Spyderedges and plain edges both. And few blade steels excel at plain edges and serrated edges both>> but VG-10 does well with both and I speak of personal, hands on experience and I've used my VG-10 blades in PE & SE both a lot over the past 4 to 5 years.

This has been a very enlightening thread and I appreciate MASTIFF and the rest of you guys sharing your experience with the rest of us.

[twinboysdad]

440V that the Lil Temps were run in rocks.

[JAfromMN]

I think its to hard on there equipment

Oh no "JA from MN" I respectfully disagree with you on that one>> because I've talked to some folks at Spyderco that told me over the phone that they had bad chipping problems with Spyderedged ZDP-189 units. They also told me that they had problems not only with the teeth chipping on that blade steel but that they found it was hard to work with too.

As much as I like my two ZDP-189 Spyders I personally wouldn't even want one in Spyderedge for several reasons. One big reason is that there are so many really great blade steels that they could use for Spyderedges that to me it just doesn't even make sense when you have H-1 and other blade steels that excel in that area. I would take an H-1 blade in SE or AUS-8 in SE anyday before I would embark on one with ZDP-189.

I like the crazy edge holding zdp-189 in fs gives me the lasting edge I need.

I also have yet to own any h1 in fully serrated.

Now Im going to have to get my zdp endura sent in.

somw combo edge super steels is what I'm craving

[tripscheck'em]

With all the added selection of new blade steels we've been blessed with the past few years has made our favorite hobby much more intriguing without a doubt. Also without any doubt some of these newer supersteels and tool steels have really enhanced many of the plain edged mainline models like the C-36 Military and several others I could mention. Personally I love M390 blade steel and it truly performs nearly perfect on two of my EDC Spyders. Just out of curiosity I would love to see how M390 might perform in Spyderedge.

However there's been very little said at all on how some of these newer blade steels might perform in Spyderedge. Now I'll certainly agree with many of you that many of these extremely hard steels may not even be suitable for decent performance on Spyderedged models. Albeit I do think that there are some very interesting possibilities right in front of us. Because I've wondered for some time now about how some of these newer steels would perform in Spyderedge.

For instance I truly believe that CTS-XHP has some interesting properties that I believe would be good in Spyderedge. We also have a newer nitrogen based blade steel known as LC200N which I believe would probably be great in Spyderedge. Now you can also mention which older blade steels you thought were good in Spyderedge and how they might compare with some of these newer blade steels

So what blade steels would you all like to see offered in Spyderedge? Also which Spyderco models would you all like to see in Spyderedge with newer/better blade steels? You could name which model with which particular blade steel that you think would be ideal?

It would actually be better to use the extremely high-wear resistant steels for serrations because serrations don't require as precise a level of sharpness to function.

The problem is that most people who own knives as a hobby don't really use them, and when they do happen to use the knives they find out that the steel gets damaged through cutting, but then they complain that it's the steel's fault.

[JD Spydo]

440V that the Lil Temps were run in rocks.

I've gone on record a few times singing the accolades of 440V>> I've actually always liked 440V much better than it's successor S30V. I've had super good results with the 440V serrated Spyders I've had over the years. The 440V SE Native that I've owned and used for years is the Spyder that I consider my "hard use pitbull folder".

Yeah I wouldn't object at all if Spyderco used some of their old bar stock like 440V or any of the other great old blade steels that made great Spyderedged blades.

I would really love it if Cliff Stamp would chime in on this thread>> because Cliff is aware that steels with certain properties make better serrated edge blades. But I still want to hear suggestions from you guys who think that some of the newer blade steels would make for great Spyderedges.

[Bill1170]

Is Crucible still selling 440V (AKA S60V)? The consensus among those who tried it was that it excelled in SE. I've heard little about its performance in PE.

[JD Spydo]

Is Crucible still selling 440V (AKA S60V)? The consensus among those who tried it was that it excelled in SE. I've heard little about its performance in PE.

OH yes 440V is truly one of the best blade steels for serrated edges that I've used. I used that 440V SE Native model on some of the most demanding jobs and I've never chipped it and it also doesn't dull very easy in Spyderedge either.

The only complaint I have about 440V is that it is truly one of the top 3 most difficult blade steels to sharpen that I've ever taken on. ZDP-189 who a lot of people complain about being difficult to sharpen is literal child's play to sharpen compared to 440V :eek:

For some strange reason I find XHP to have some similar properties to 440V which is why I'm eager to see how it fares in Spyderedge.

[The Mastiff]

You sure have brought up the 440V Native serrated knives before. I remembered that last time you talked about it I bought my big box out and looked for 440V knives. I found a NIB Native SE and PE in that steel. I never did get around to using the SE in that steel. Maybe I should give it a try. Next time I need something cut that SE edges do better I will bring it out. It was the first true Super Steel I had tried back before the term super steel was even used. It was and is impressive as a blade steel. I had several different 440V knives over the years. I just lost interest because of other steels being brought out and not because of any lack of performance.

I believe I tried ZDP not long after that, as well as S30V. There was BG42 getting my attention back then too. I think I still prefer BG42 to all those I just mentioned. For a dedicated non stainless person I remember being pretty impressed by those stainless steels. BG42 does slightly better above rc 60 and up than the others. Probably why it got my attention. Still, I remember it being chippy in the one line of BG42 serrated SOG knives I tried it in.

I think too high carbon is what makes the serrations chippy when ran at higher type hardness es that I prefer.

Joe

[JD Spydo]

Mastiff it's funny but yet very interesting that you mention BG-42 because that's another blade steel that I've wondered in the back of my head as to whether or not it would be a good steel for Spyderedges. Now to be honest I've personally not yet ever owned a blade made with BG-42 but I've heard so many of you guys speak well of it that it makes me wonder if it wouldn't be a Spyderedge candidate?

Trust me when I tell you and the others that 440V is truly a super good blade steel for Spyderedges. Off the top of my head I can only think of two blade steels that I like just as much for SE>> those are AUS-8 and ATS-55. Currently I'm EDCing my old stainless handled RESCUE model which has ATS-55 blade steel and it performs very well in Spyderedge.

It truly amazes me how some steels can excel in one edge type but not so well in another. Because ZDP-189 for instance is an excellent blade steel for plain edged blades ( as long as you keep it clean) but I've heard reports of problems with it in Spyderedge. It also amazes me that there are very few blade steels that excel in both edge types i.e. plain edge and Spyderedge.