Reinhold Rhino Update

[bearfacedkiller]

I think that if you drop both on a hard surface that G10 will take it better. I will take durability over wear resistance anyday. Many say that they can feel the weight difference and while there is a subtle one I think it is negligible myself. Weight is pretty subjective though. As far as looks goes I think that if you are gonna use CF it should be something other than peel ply.

You wanna talk about having a problem? We are now discussing the wear resistance of scale materials. Maybe we just need scales made in s110v, I heard it has good wear resistance. Ha! :D

[murphjd25]

You wanna talk about having a problem? We are now discussing the wear resistance of scale materials. Maybe we just need scales made in s110v, I heard it has good wear resistance. Ha! :D

I think we're all sick here :p I wouldn't have it any other way!

This is just my opinion but i wish they would of just stuck with G10 or if CF, make it one peice real CF. Either way this is going to be one **** of a little big knife.

[rivy]

Hey Rivy, and welcome! Yeah, it seems like a good amount of us are disappointed that the price is going up probably to where most of the rest of the models are. The original price we saw was without question a surprising value, and now we know why. That factory won the business by undercutting on pricing, not by skills or merit. When it came time to deliver, well, I guess Spyderco got what it paid for and it just didn't work out.

Now they have to deal with what amounts to a broken promise to their fans. I'm sure Taichung could make the exact same model with the exact same materials, but it would still be more expensive and I think that would insight even more outrage. So instead they said "hey, if it's gotta cost more, maybe they won't be so mad if they get something better too". It's kind of masking the price increase and justifying it with better materials. Also it offers them the opportunity to make up some of what they lose in value customers by now appealing to those who were thumbing their nose at BD-1. They've shifted the market. Basically, they're doing their best to keep the most of us happy!

I know I sound like an apologist, but I am still disappointed too myself. I'm pretty poor right now, so that price was super attractive. So I'm not saying we can't be disappointed, just saying don't feel betrayed. The alternative would have been worse, and I think Spyderco have been around and dealing with us knuts long enough to know that.

Sorry this is what brought you on the forum, but I certainly welcome you to stay!

Thanks for the welcome and reply! I saw in some older Byrd Raven 2/Crow2 threads that Sal mentioned he was working with that same factory on some other BD1 models, I wonder if the Rhino was one of those...

All your points make sense as well and I'm certainly not feeling betrayed or anything like that... just was excited for the Rhino, but depending on final price point, may not end up getting one. Figured it was worth it to add my .02 regarding the materials and cost. :)

[Afterman]

I saw in some older Byrd Raven 2/Crow2 threads that Sal mentioned he was working with that same factory on some other BD1 models, I wonder if the Rhino was one of those...

I believe he was talking about the Polestar. Same China factory as the nicer Byrds, because Sal said that maker improved a lot, and was worthy of making a real Spyderco knife. It's out now, $100 MSRP, $60 if you look online(knifecenter, bladehq, etc.)

The Rhino was being made in the Taipei, Taiwan factory. Not 100% sure but I believe it's where the Chicago and Cat models are made. Now it's moved to the Taichung, Taiwan factory where they're really good and do high end models.

[rivy]

I saw in some older Byrd Raven 2/Crow2 threads that Sal mentioned he was working with that same factory on some other BD1 models, I wonder if the Rhino was one of those...

I believe he was talking about the Polestar. Same China factory as the nicer Byrds, because Sal said that maker improved a lot, and was worthy of making a real Spyderco knife. It's out now, $100 MSRP, $60 if you look online(knifecenter, bladehq, etc.)

The Rhino was being made in the Taipei, Taiwan factory. Not 100% sure but I believe it's where the Chicago and Cat models are made. Now it's moved to the Taichung, Taiwan factory where they're really good and do high end models.

Interesting, makes sense. Where is the tenacious line produced?

[bh49]

China

[rivy]

China

I guess I should have been more specific... which factory? The same as the Raven/Crow2 or elsewhere?

[qazy]

Upgrades are nice, but the price was the main factor I got interested in this knife. Will see if it still keep me interested when street price is known.

[Capt'n Boatsalot]

I was recently trying to think of any Taichung made sprints. None come to mind, but I will be surprised if there aren't any. Can anyone help me out?

Given the answer to that question, I wonder about that future possibility of Rhino sprints in the future (white Micarta, etc as discussed in the other Rhino thread). That's obviously less of a concern after the change in config, but still something I was thinking about. (Guilty of the sickness too...)

[ZrowsN1s]

The main thing that got me interested in this knife was #1 it was designed by one of our own forum members (we have great taste :D ) and #2 it is a sub 2.5inch blade with a compression lock. I am very happy with the upgrades, they have upgraded my interest in this already interesting knife. This will be my first Taichung, I'm excited.

[jabba359]

I was recently trying to think of any Taichung made sprints. None come to mind, but I will be surprised if there aren't any. Can anyone help me out?

Given the answer to that question, I wonder about that future possibility of Rhino sprints in the future (white Micarta, etc as discussed in the other Rhino thread). That's obviously less of a concern after the change in config, but still something I was thinking about. (Guilty of the sickness too...)

The Domino has gotten several dealer/distibutor exclusives (red/black weave cf, blue/black weave cf, and blue G-10/204P), so it seems they're willing to do sprint-like runs.

[hovan2yourknives]

I'd agree with Darby, mine smooth out a bit, but can't see wearing a piece of g-10 out in my lifetime.

I never said it would wear out. I said that g10 smooths out over time. I've yet to notice any smoothing out on my cf knives.

I totally agree! My Sage 5 has suprisingly become one of my go-to knives over the past few months and it feels like it did on day 1! In my experience...any textured G10 would have smoothed out with the same amount of pocket time and use. I've never had any issues with the aesthetics or functionality of CF peel-ply/laminate. I've always liked just as long as it's subtle and doesn't look overly funky.

Side note: when you look at the texture on the Sage 5 laminate under magnification, you'll notice that it's the same texturing that's on G10 which has been strategically machined on top of the typical CF laminate that you'd find on the Sage 1, GB1 & 3 , Chappie etc. Not sure if that was ever mentioned on here but it's just something cool that I noticed.

[bh49]

The main thing that got me interested in this knife was #1 it was designed by one of our own forum members (we have great taste :D ) and #2 it is a sub 2.5inch blade with a compression lock. I am very happy with the upgrades, they have upgraded my interest in this already interesting knife. This will be my first Taichung, I'm excited.

+1
IMHO this thread started great and sadly went down the hill.
Let's me summarize, what I know and how I see this.
Michael, one of the most respected forum members, at least among people, who are frequent here for years, designed great knife and Spyderco decided to make it. Did Spyderco had an intend to make it an affordable compression lock folder or not, I do not know. I never read such statement from Spyderco. Possibly decision to make it at Taipei was just matter of capacity. Anyway Taipei made this knife, but the quality was below Spyderco standards and lot was rejected. It looks like Taipei couldn't make any better or didn't cooperate.
Spyderco had two options:either cancel production or move. Would it be better, is Spyderco would cancel? I am quite sure that in this case would be many more unhappy people. So Spyderco moved to Taichung and probably this is not a secret, that this company is not ordinary Taiwanese contractor, who makes cheap $20 knives. They are expensive, but probably nobody will argue that they worth the money, which they charge. Along the way couple upgrades came: steel and scale materials. Still I am near positive that most of cost increase related to supplier and not to materials. Steel is not S110V and scales are not solid CF.
I think that whiners should stop whining. This is a knife, not bread or water. This is not necessity. Knife hobby is expensive hobby. There are plenty of Spyderco knives, which would like to have, just cannot afford. So what?
And the last thing, which was a little upsetting for me. For me Rhino is must have THE KNIFE because it was designed by friend Michael, who is my knifebro for ten years. I will be honored to own the knife, which was designed by person, who I know and who I shared a lot of good time. For all whiners, Rhino is just inexpensive compression lock. This is what I would expect from outsiders, not The Forum members.

[araneae]

The main thing that got me interested in this knife was #1 it was designed by one of our own forum members (we have great taste :D ) and #2 it is a sub 2.5inch blade with a compression lock. I am very happy with the upgrades, they have upgraded my interest in this already interesting knife. This will be my first Taichung, I'm excited.

+1
IMHO this thread started great and sadly went down the hill.
Let's me summarize, what I know and how I see this.
Michael, one of the most respected forum members, at least among people, who are frequent here for years, designed great knife and Spyderco decided to make it. Did Spyderco had an intend to make it an affordable compression lock folder or not, I do not know. I never read such statement from Spyderco. Possibly decision to make it at Taipei was just matter of capacity. Anyway Taipei made this knife, but the quality was below Spyderco standards and lot was rejected. It looks like Taipei couldn't make any better or didn't cooperate.
Spyderco had two options:either cancel production or move. Would it be better, is Spyderco would cancel? I am quite sure that in this case would be many more unhappy people. So Spyderco moved to Taichung and probably this is not a secret, that this company is not ordinary Taiwanese contractor, who makes cheap $20 knives. They are expensive, but probably nobody will argue that they worth the money, which they charge. Along the way couple upgrades came: steel and scale materials. Still I am near positive that most of cost increase related to supplier and not to materials. Steel is not S110V and scales are not solid CF.
I think that whiners should stop whining. This is a knife, not bread or water. This is not necessity. Knife hobby is expensive hobby. There are plenty of Spyderco knives, which would like to have, just cannot afford. So what?
And the last thing, which was a little upsetting for me. For me Rhino is must have THE KNIFE because it was designed by friend Michael, who is my knifebro for ten years. I will be honored to own the knife, which was designed by person, who I know and who I shared a lot of good time. For all whiners, Rhino is just inexpensive compression lock. This is what I would expect from outsiders, not The Forum members.

Roman, I have to disagree. I'm baffled that you think that materials being upgraded are not a significant factor in what will likely be a large increase in price, you are sorely mistaken. Look at a simple model like the D'fly and the zdp version. Just the steel change makes the price go from about $55 MAP to $82. Same maker, same handle $27 price difference. The complaint I'm seeing is that we were offered info that made the knife an affordable model designed by one of us; of course we were all excited. Now we are getting another afi model out of Taichung that will likely double the price we thought it was coming in at. Spyderco could have minimized the impact by sticking with the same materials we all expected.

Whiners maybe, but its like buying a new car and when you go to pick it up they swapped in the top end model and said oh by the way, the car you wanted now isn't available but we'd love to sell you the limited edition for 50% more. Call me a whiner or call me disappointed and rightfully so.

[PayneTrain]

Whiners maybe, but its like buying a new car and when you go to pick it up they swapped in the top end model and said oh by the way, the car you wanted now isn't available but we'd love to sell you the limited edition for 50% more. Call me a whiner or call me disappointed and rightfully so.

Well I don't think it's QUITE the same as that, most notably because we haven't paid for it yet. To me it's more along the lines of the kind of disappointment you felt when you were a kid and went to bed expecting a snow day, and woke up to a 2 hour delay. Or like, ordering a sandwich with no lettuce, and getting lettuce. There's a quick "ugh" and a "come on dude", but I'm eating that sandwich! We'll see, I think it'll depend how much more expensive it gets. If it is Sage 5 pricing then maybe it'll be more like getting stuck in traffic.

But I do have a feeling the majority of the price increase will be from the move. It seems more likely that that the move, which was not an option, jacked the price up a lot and, by comparison, the materials upgrade was just a little more so they threw it in to make it worth our while, as opposed to it going up a little from the move which we may have stomached and then throwing on a large price increase for upgrades that really no one was clamoring for. I doubt we'll ever know for sure cuz that's kinda their business and it'd be beyond spoiled and entitled to expect those details, but we can always conjecture. :)

[Holzfaeller]

Some people are happy to pay for certain materials, I am less motivated in that regard. Carbon fibre, yak horn, moon rocks, it's all the same to me. As was previously stated, this knife is not a necessity, especially for me as I already have more knives than I can use. I'll save the money and someone else will buy a knife that they enjoy. Everybody wins.

[bh49]

Look at a simple model like the D'fly and the zdp version. Just the steel change makes the price go from about $55 MAP to $82. Same maker, same handle $27 price difference.

Sorry, if I wasn't clear. Without of doubts materials upgrade comes with cost. Still I think that XHP is much less expensive than ZDP189. And CF/G10 laminate is less expensive than CF. What I was trying to say that more than 50% of cost increase will come from move and less than 50% from steel and scales.

Now we are getting another afi model out of Taichung.................... Call me a whiner or call me disappointed and rightfully so.

1. Do you know anybody on this Forum, who is not afi? :confused: :)
2. I hope that I didn't call anybody a "whiner". For me a "whiner" is somebody who whines all the time. Most of us whine once in a while.

[murphjd25]

Who knows, Spyderco might keep it at the same price and take a loss on this knife? Only time will tell...it's still going to be a great knife and great bargain. I don't think the price is going to go up that much if at all.. I will still buy one.

[bh49]

To me it's more along the lines of the kind of disappointment you felt when you were a kid and went to bed expecting a snow day, and woke up to a 2 hour delay.

I think that this the way for everybody, who disappointed need to treat this. This is the life, which full of great surprises, but disappointments as well.

[bh49]

Who knows, Spyderco might keep it at the same price and take a loss on this knife?

This is up to Spyderco, but I hope that this will not happen. I would hate a fact that Spyderco would take a loos in this case. I do not see any good reason for that. We are getting a great knife.
Also Spyderco has top pay bills like everybody else. So if Spyderco would take a loss, they would have to make it up somehow. So we will pay more for some other knives. It is like moving money from left pocket to right pocket. Will not make anybody richer or poorer.