Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

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Liquid Cobra
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Re: Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

Postby Liquid Cobra » Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:46 pm

https://youtu.be/I3KbLKH56kY

Seems nick recommends the knife but didn’t give it full gem status. Interesting review.
Most recently acquired: Native Chief, Shaman S90V, Para 3 LW, Ikuchi, UKPK, Smock, SUBVERT, Amalgam, Para 3 CTS-XHP, Kapara, Paramilitary 2 M390
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Re: Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

Postby Pelagic » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:29 pm

"freagin YUGE" haha. I was quite surprised at "better ergonomics than the Shaman.

And WHY IN THE WORLD do finger choils count as blade in the eyes of the law? It's absolutely stupid.
Pancake wrote:
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Are you a magician? :eek:
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Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
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Wartstein
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Re: Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

Postby Wartstein » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:42 pm

Pelagic wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:29 pm
...
And WHY IN THE WORLD do finger choils count as blade in the eyes of the law? It's absolutely stupid.
Most (or probably ALL) knife laws are stupid in theirselves, but having said that: Maybe the reasoning here is, that when you stab someone, the whole BLADE (so including the part of the choil that is in the blade) could go into the target, and your stab would only be stopped by the actual handle??
And with a longer blade you could actually reach the heart or other vital organs, with a shorter not so much??

Just guessing, of course. No clue about knife fighting (luckily...), and actually no restricting knife laws where I live.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

Postby Pelagic » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:52 pm

But then marlin spikes should apply. Or anything. Someone somewhere probably made a folding chisel at some point. I guess the shaft is part of the blade.
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?

Monty
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Re: Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

Postby Monty » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:55 pm

I watched NIck's video this morning and he touches on the biggest problem I have with this knife, if it was a 3.98" blade instead of a 4.08" it would be legal for me to carry in my state. Given how many states/cities have length restrictions I wish manufacturers would take that into consideration and when the design is already close to 3", 3.5", 4", make the decision to go slightly under rather than slightly over those benchmarks.

I'll certainly be trying one out, but if I keep it I'll be grinding a bit off the tip before I carry it.

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Re: Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

Postby Wartstein » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:15 pm

Pelagic wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:52 pm
But then marlin spikes should apply. Or anything. Someone somewhere probably made a folding chisel at some point. I guess the shaft is part of the blade.

You are right of course... I really was just guessing what lawmakers possibly could have had in mind, when they made these laws, which I personally really do not understand more than you do... ;)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

Postby Wartstein » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:22 pm

Liquid Cobra wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:46 pm

Seems nick recommends the knife but didn’t give it full gem status. Interesting review.
Don´t get me wrong, I like watching Nicks reviews, and he normally points out really interesting and important things!
But, like most knife "reviewers", he does in fact mostly "just" kind of first impression videos (and good ones!!), and not real reviews. That is on no way against Mr. Shabbaz, as said, he does a good job and given the amount of knives he shows on his channel, he would have NO chance to really use all that blades over a longer period of time and in various tasks, to do a "real" review afterwards
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

Postby p_atrick » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:40 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:22 pm
Don´t get me wrong, I like watching Nicks reviews, and he normally points out really interesting and important things!
But, like most knife "reviewers", he does in fact mostly "just" kind of first impression videos (and good ones!!), and not real reviews. That is on no way against Mr. Shabbaz, as said, he does a good job and given the amount of knives he shows on his channel, he would have NO chance to really use all that blades over a longer period of time and in various tasks, to do a "real" review afterwards
One of the reasons I like his videos more than most is that he is more aware of his own biases. His dislike of longer blades kept this knife from being a gem. But at least the viewer knows about this preference. I've heard him do reviews and mention something under the "bad" section only to immediately say something to the affect, "well, maybe you don't mind this, so it isn't bad." Every review is subjective to some respect, but I value you those who understand this. As for a real review, what does "real" mean? Is there a threshold of cardboard/zip ties/rope cut? Of course not. One of the main benefits of this forum is that you get to kind of know the people here and how they use their knives. You know what they like and dislike. You know the kinds of things they do with their knives (in terms of use and sharpening). You won't really find that kind of history on YouTube. I think I can form a better opinion on a knife from the people here as opposed to those on YouTube.

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Re: Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

Postby Zvinets » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:47 pm

This maybe a noob question about the Native Chief but anyways, I read that the Native Chief is "Linerless".

What does the Linerless means? Could anyone enlighten me more on this, thx in advance :)

*Asking this as I'm considering between the Manix 2 XL & Native Chief to be my next.
*In which my decision making for big Spydies tends to end up in getting both (or more) models that I'm comparing in the end :p :spyder:

Cheers~
*Spydies in Care :spyder:
1. Manix 2 XL - named "Fluffy" (19/8/2019) :)
2. Military S30V, G10 Camo - simply "Millie" (6/9/2019)

*Wishlist Spydies :spyder:
PM2 M390 (DLT Exclusive, Crimson scales), Native Chief, Military S110V - 204P, Police 4 (K390) & LW, PM2 (S35V), Resilience, Tatanka, Amalgam, *to be continued
:spyder:

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Re: Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

Postby Pelagic » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:42 pm

Zvinets wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:47 pm
This maybe a noob question about the Native Chief but anyways, I read that the Native Chief is "Linerless".

What does the Linerless means? Could anyone enlighten me more on this, thx in advance :)

*Asking this as I'm considering between the Manix 2 XL & Native Chief to be my next.
*In which my decision making for big Spydies tends to end up in getting both (or more) models that I'm comparing in the end :p :spyder:

Cheers~
The handle is pure G10 without any steel liners. The manix XL is much better built for hard use. Both are solid performers though.
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?

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Bloke
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Re: Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

Postby Bloke » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:34 pm

Zvinets wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:47 pm
What does the Linerless means? Could anyone enlighten me more on this, thx in advance :)
Pelagic answered the question but perhaps this may help better clarify things.

This is a Military model disassembled. The locking mechanism is called a Liner Lock and wouldn’t work without at least one liners.

You can only see the inside of one G10 scale but both are machined with pocket to accomodate the metal liners you see at bottom left in picture.

Hope this helps and I haven’t confused you. :)

Image
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

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Re: Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

Postby Wartstein » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:33 am

Pelagic wrote:
Zvinets wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:47 pm
This maybe a noob question about the Native Chief but anyways, I read that the Native Chief is "Linerless".

What does the Linerless means? Could anyone enlighten me more on this, thx in advance :)

*Asking this as I'm considering between the Manix 2 XL & Native Chief to be my next.
*In which my decision making for big Spydies tends to end up in getting both (or more) models that I'm comparing in the end :p :spyder:

Cheers~
The handle is pure G10 without any steel liners. The manix XL is much better built for hard use. Both are solid performers though.
Zvinets wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:47 pm
I have read many posts written by Pelagic on this forum and a lot of respect concerning your ("Pelagics") knowledge of and experience (yes, especially hard use!)with knives (which you, Pelagic, have certainly much more of both than I do).

Still, @Zvinets: I personally think it would be a mistake to choose the Manix XL over the Native Chief for reasons of "much better hard use capabilities" based on their handle constructions.
Technically, the Manix 2 XL might certainly be still a bit stronger in the handle than the linerless Chief, but with all respect, I would not say it (the Manix) is "much better built for hard use". Can´t think of any reasonable hard use knife task, where a thick, linerless G10 knife is not strong enough (especially being a backlock, with closed back and a lot of steel in the back of the handle...)

The Manix XL might be better for some for hard use for other reasons (probably stronger tip, more handfilling handle...) though
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

Postby Pelagic » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:31 am

Hard use isn't just willfully abusing knives. There are environments that are conducive to edge damage. The Manix XL has a much stronger tip, less lock rock, steel liners, better ergos for gripping the handle as hard as you can, and a tall blade which makes the blade stronger. The Chief has a very pointy delicate tip, no steel liners, ergos are fine but not on par with the Manix XL for hard cuts. The Chief is an excellent cutting tool, but actually so is the Manix XL. The tall blade helps lend itself to slicing and its not very thick bte. I rarely carry my Chief because I feel i could snap the tip off in one brief mishap. On the subject of liners I just wanted to add my opinion that the Manix XL is much better equipped to take a beating and survive mishaps in the workplace or other imperfect environments.
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?

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Wartstein
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Re: Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

Postby Wartstein » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:04 am

Pelagic wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:31 am
Hard use isn't just willfully abusing knives. There are environments that are conducive to edge damage. The Manix XL has a much stronger tip, less lock rock, steel liners, better ergos for gripping the handle as hard as you can, and a tall blade which makes the blade stronger. The Chief has a very pointy delicate tip, no steel liners, ergos are fine but not on par with the Manix XL for hard cuts. The Chief is an excellent cutting tool, but actually so is the Manix XL. The tall blade helps lend itself to slicing and its not very thick bte. I rarely carry my Chief because I feel i could snap the tip off in one brief mishap. On the subject of liners I just wanted to add my opinion that the Manix XL is much better equipped to take a beating and survive mishaps in the workplace or other imperfect environments.

Pelagic, I was really specifically referring to "linered vs linerless thick G10" (and the latter even with a backlock, whichs construction should stabilize the handle further). As I already pointed out in my previous post, for ÒTHER reasons the Manix XL is probably the better"extreme hard use knife" than the Chief (tip and so on).

But, again: I want to make clear that I cannot "compete" by any means with your obvious experience when it comes to using knives in "hard use workplace scenarios", no question! So I just can say: In MY personal hard use experience a linlerless, thick G10 handle plus a backlock (like the Native 5 or the Manix backlock have) is more than strong enough for anything I could ever throw at the knife.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

Postby Pelagic » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:12 am

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:04 am
Pelagic wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:31 am
Hard use isn't just willfully abusing knives. There are environments that are conducive to edge damage. The Manix XL has a much stronger tip, less lock rock, steel liners, better ergos for gripping the handle as hard as you can, and a tall blade which makes the blade stronger. The Chief has a very pointy delicate tip, no steel liners, ergos are fine but not on par with the Manix XL for hard cuts. The Chief is an excellent cutting tool, but actually so is the Manix XL. The tall blade helps lend itself to slicing and its not very thick bte. I rarely carry my Chief because I feel i could snap the tip off in one brief mishap. On the subject of liners I just wanted to add my opinion that the Manix XL is much better equipped to take a beating and survive mishaps in the workplace or other imperfect environments.

Pelagic, I was really specifically referring to "linered vs linerless thick G10" (and the latter even with a backlock, whichs construction should stabilize the handle further). As I already pointed out in my previous post, for ÒTHER reasons the Manix XL is probably the better"extreme hard use knife" than the Chief (tip and so on).

But, again: I want to make clear that I cannot "compete" by any means with your obvious experience when it comes to using knives in "hard use workplace scenarios", no question! So I just can say: In MY personal hard use experience a linlerless, thick G10 handle plus a backlock (like the Native 5 or the Manix backlock have) is more than strong enough for anything I could ever throw at the knife.
I'm not the authority on hard use. I just give my opinion based on having owned both knives. I didn't bring up liners this time (lol) but since he didn't know what they were exactly I sort of branched off into hard use with my answer because that is really the biggest functional difference between the two knives to me and liners play a role in it. I'd give probably performance cutting (close) and carry-ability to the Chief and almost everything else to the manix XL.
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?

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Wartstein
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Re: Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

Postby Wartstein » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:20 am

Pelagic wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:12 am
Wartstein wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:04 am
Pelagic wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:31 am
Hard use isn't just willfully abusing knives. There are environments that are conducive to edge damage. The Manix XL has a much stronger tip, less lock rock, steel liners, better ergos for gripping the handle as hard as you can, and a tall blade which makes the blade stronger. The Chief has a very pointy delicate tip, no steel liners, ergos are fine but not on par with the Manix XL for hard cuts. The Chief is an excellent cutting tool, but actually so is the Manix XL. The tall blade helps lend itself to slicing and its not very thick bte. I rarely carry my Chief because I feel i could snap the tip off in one brief mishap. On the subject of liners I just wanted to add my opinion that the Manix XL is much better equipped to take a beating and survive mishaps in the workplace or other imperfect environments.

Pelagic, I was really specifically referring to "linered vs linerless thick G10" (and the latter even with a backlock, whichs construction should stabilize the handle further). As I already pointed out in my previous post, for ÒTHER reasons the Manix XL is probably the better"extreme hard use knife" than the Chief (tip and so on).

But, again: I want to make clear that I cannot "compete" by any means with your obvious experience when it comes to using knives in "hard use workplace scenarios", no question! So I just can say: In MY personal hard use experience a linlerless, thick G10 handle plus a backlock (like the Native 5 or the Manix backlock have) is more than strong enough for anything I could ever throw at the knife.
I'm not the authority on hard use. I just give my opinion based on having owned both knives. I didn't bring up liners this time (lol) but since he didn't know what they were exactly I sort of branched off into hard use with my answer because that is really the biggest functional difference between the two knives to me and liners play a role in it. I'd give probably performance cutting (close) and carry-ability to the Chief and almost everything else to the manix XL.
Then I got you wrong, sorry! (And you are right, here is what you said (in quotes), and I made the connection between "liners and hard use", without you doing so... "The handle is pure G10 without any steel liners. The manix XL is much better built for hard use. Both are solid performers though."

And: You certainly do use knives in at least not "soft" and WORK scenarios, which I don´t... ;) (My more or less "hard use" is more in outdoor-stuff, and that I use the knife I EDC for really anything it could be usefull for (but still more or less knife-tasks), without worrying too much or "baby" the blade).
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

Postby Zvinets » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:28 am

Pelagic wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:42 pm
Zvinets wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:47 pm
This maybe a noob question about the Native Chief but anyways, I read that the Native Chief is "Linerless".

What does the Linerless means? Could anyone enlighten me more on this, thx in advance :)

*Asking this as I'm considering between the Manix 2 XL & Native Chief to be my next.
*In which my decision making for big Spydies tends to end up in getting both (or more) models that I'm comparing in the end :p :spyder:

Cheers~
The handle is pure G10 without any steel liners. The manix XL is much better built for hard use. Both are solid performers though.
Ah I see, thank you for the explanation Pelagic now I understand clearly what the Linerless bits means :)

At first I thought a Linerless folder might be "squishy" or fragile...afraid it might bent or shatter upon harder use (no cutting through engine blocks or concrete lol), but after handling the Native Chief and feeling it for myself today I agreed that both are tough performers :)

Aesthetics wise tbh the Chief hits me good. It's wicked yet not the "try-hard" to be mean looking, one elegant pretty piece it is, not to mention the performance too it's a win win for me. Buuuut turns out the Chief was already booked by another buyer, end up grabbing the cute chubby Manix XL. It does have the "extra cute" impression to me. Named it "Fluffy" lol :p :spyder:

Little picsies follows bcs I'm too overhyped excited satisfied with today's purchase lol. *Chief's is a definite next to me! :)
Attachments
IMG_20190819_172638_498.jpg
IMG_20190819_172418_268.jpg
IMG_20190819_172425_069.jpg
IMG_20190819_172412_987.jpg
*Spydies in Care :spyder:
1. Manix 2 XL - named "Fluffy" (19/8/2019) :)
2. Military S30V, G10 Camo - simply "Millie" (6/9/2019)

*Wishlist Spydies :spyder:
PM2 M390 (DLT Exclusive, Crimson scales), Native Chief, Military S110V - 204P, Police 4 (K390) & LW, PM2 (S35V), Resilience, Tatanka, Amalgam, *to be continued
:spyder:

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Zvinets
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Re: Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

Postby Zvinets » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:44 am

Bloke wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:34 pm
Zvinets wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:47 pm
What does the Linerless means? Could anyone enlighten me more on this, thx in advance :)
Pelagic answered the question but perhaps this may help better clarify things.

This is a Military model disassembled. The locking mechanism is called a Liner Lock and wouldn’t work without at least one liners.

You can only see the inside of one G10 scale but both are machined with pocket to accomodate the metal liners you see at bottom left in picture.

Hope this helps and I haven’t confused you. :)

Image
Thanks for the detailed breakdown there Bloke, it does give more insights of the overall construction :)

That Millie is neat, I preferred the "bigger" options sizing around the Chief / Manix XL / Millie and planned it to be my first Spydie. Which in the end I get the extra chunkier XL today as my first (which still totally good) :D
*Spydies in Care :spyder:
1. Manix 2 XL - named "Fluffy" (19/8/2019) :)
2. Military S30V, G10 Camo - simply "Millie" (6/9/2019)

*Wishlist Spydies :spyder:
PM2 M390 (DLT Exclusive, Crimson scales), Native Chief, Military S110V - 204P, Police 4 (K390) & LW, PM2 (S35V), Resilience, Tatanka, Amalgam, *to be continued
:spyder:

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Bloke
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Re: Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

Postby Bloke » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:25 pm

Zvinets wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:44 am
Thanks for the detailed breakdown there Bloke, it does give more insights of the overall construction :)

That Millie is neat, I preferred the "bigger" options sizing around the Chief / Manix XL / Millie and planned it to be my first Spydie. Which in the end I get the extra chunkier XL today as my first (which still totally good) :D
You're most welcome! :cool:

Hope your new knife serves you well. :)
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

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Re: Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

Postby wrdwrght » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:16 am

Don’t overlook, as I seem to have, Eric’s information-rich video on the Chief (https://youtu.be/hndK4YAP4oM). He’s also done a similarly valuable one on the Shaman.
Marc

INBOUND: K390 PM2 exclusive. ON RADAR: “Crucarta” Shaman sprint; Stretch2 straight-spine sprint; Siren; Maxamet PM2. IN DREAMS: V4E Military2 stop-lock; 4V Native Chief; Slysz Swayback; Anso Rock Lobster; Nishijin “R”; C27 serrated Jess Horn.


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