Native Chief - Can we get a heartbeat?

[vivi]

lol? its the best construction option for me. I have linerless FRN and G10 knives that have been subjected to over a decade of frequent use and they work fine. Got a linerless folder in my pocket right now in fact.

It cannot be measured how proud of you I am currently. The thought of you jogging through the woods with a 4max in your soccer shorts hurts my own balls. To some, it is obvious that spyderco has been wasting it's resources on designing knives with liners. Wow, why did they ever concoct such a worthless idea? :D

You ok man?

Vivi, it was you that talked about running through the woods in nylon shorts as a reason for needing lightweight knives, not me. In which case I'm really not sure why you didn't use your waistband. But anyway, I'm just 1 guy that doesn't drink the kool-aid. A lot of people agree with what I'm saying but are mature enough to stay out of this conversation, believe it. I'm just not afraid of being the minority, or even banned for that matter. I think it mostly boils down to people never having been in a hard use environment. Someone could easily start an account and constantly ask "why don't you just use a box cutter? You shouldn't be prying with knives" and they could make a good case against most people here. A box cutter actually could do everything most of the people do with their knives. However, I know a boxcutter would never suffice for me. My perspective is much different. But many people have trouble accepting that. And I care very, very little.

Hope ya feel better tomorrow man.

[Pelagic]

It cannot be measured how proud of you I am currently. The thought of you jogging through the woods with a 4max in your soccer shorts hurts my own balls. To some, it is obvious that spyderco has been wasting it's resources on designing knives with liners. Wow, why did they ever concoct such a worthless idea? :D

You ok man?

Vivi, it was you that talked about running through the woods in nylon shorts as a reason for needing lightweight knives, not me. In which case I'm really not sure why you didn't use your waistband. But anyway, I'm just 1 guy that doesn't drink the kool-aid. A lot of people agree with what I'm saying but are mature enough to stay out of this conversation, believe it. I'm just not afraid of being the minority, or even banned for that matter. I think it mostly boils down to people never having been in a hard use environment. Someone could easily start an account and constantly ask "why don't you just use a box cutter? You shouldn't be prying with knives" and they could make a good case against most people here. A box cutter actually could do everything most of the people do with their knives. However, I know a boxcutter would never suffice for me. My perspective is much different. But many people have trouble accepting that. And I care very, very little.

Hope ya feel better tomorrow man.

Your passively condescending replies are great. It's much easier than discussing the issue. Why do you like your manix XL? after all, it has these horrible things called liners that make it stronger. Wouldn't it be a much better model if it wasn't built well?

[Enactive]

You guys! The diversity of our choices is beautiful. If all Spydercos were PM2s, I would have zero Spydercos.

What's Sal's line about steels... "All good, just different"? I apply that to models too.

[hambone56rx]

Just a reminder from the request of Sal, “shiny footprints.”

[Albatross]

It doesn't get us anywhere arguing about preferences.

[Enactive]

Anyhow, back on topic... I am really excited about the Native Chief and will follow it's further development and release closely. I am also interested in the Emphasis, even if it "only comes in 8Cr."

[The Meat man]

Anyhow, back on topic... I am really excited about the Native Chief and will follow it's further development and release closely. I am also interested in the Emphasis, even if it "only comes in 8Cr."

The Emphasis looks kind of like a slightly smaller Native Chief. I like the design.

[Nate]

Wanted to put the before and a couple afters together:

[Enactive]

Thanks, Nate! That is an AWESOME juxtaposition.

Wanted to put the before and a couple afters together:

[vivi]

Wanted to put the before and a couple afters together:

Nicely done. The model has come a long way over the years. Looks much better now IMO.

[Popsickle]

LW is not equal LW. A pic shows more than 1000 words:



If the Chief has "Pivot liners" screwed/riveted to a steel backspacer like the Manix LW on the left, I'll get one. If it has no liners at all, like the back-lock on the right, I won't.

Roland.

I obviously don’t have first hand knowledge on this issue, but I would expect the same construction as the backlock manix 2.

I’m in for one. My only regret on the backlock manix 2 was not getting a second one on sale when they were discontinued.

[Doc Dan]

I have to say that the Native Chief was my favorite of the new knives that Spyderco showed at the meet. Call it nostalgia, as I remember seeing that concept design on the forums back in 1999 or so. This was back in the day, when you had to put a knife on a flatbed scanner, cover it with a cloth and you had a digital image you could share online! That first design was added to the wonderful mini-museum display of the native in the Spyderco Factory Outlet. The current Native Chief flows from the current Native 5 design, and features linerless G-10 handle construction and everything else you’re familiar with on a G-10 Native five, just a lot longer!

This knife felt very light and solid in the hand. It felt lighter and thinner than the Emphasis. The Native Chief’s long slender blade also reminded me of a large Calypso. I can’t wait to get my hands on my own production sample of the native Chief, it’s very high on my wish list!







































Specifications
Overall Length: 23,1 cm / 9.09 inches
Blade Length: 10,4 cm / 4.09 inches
Blade Thickness: 3 mm / 0.11 inches
Weight: 76 grams / 2.68 ounces

I have no information on pricing or specific release dates.

Feel like this had to be posted here too so it's not lost in the Amsterdam thread.

This is probably my most anticipated knife of 2019. Always wanted a bigger native and the shaman wasn't quite big enough. Glad I held out for this design.

This is absolutely amazing. I think this will be the best folder Spyderco has put out. The lines look perfect, and I'm really glad its linerless. That weight is amazing for the size! I'm buying at least two the day they're released.

It's linerless for ease of production/price/profit margin. Not because it's the best choice for it as a (user) knife.

I do not believe that is completely accurate. It has been shown conclusively, time and time again, that if a knife is well constructed it does not need liners (I used to think they did). Having no liners allows a maker to actually keep the knife light in weight while having a rugged knife of the same size as a heavier one.

[bearfacedkiller]

This thread is a mess.

If you don’t want a linerless G10 knife then don’t buy it. The other large folders have liners so you have options. Some of us are excited about a linerless G10 big knife in the lineup. If it falls apart on me you can tell me that you told me so.

Until then we can all agree to disagree and just be grateful that Spyderco offers lots of variety and that they try to make something for everybody.

[Bloke]

This thread is a mess.

If you don’t want a linerless G10 knife then don’t buy it. The other large folders have liners so you have options. Some of us are excited about a linerless G10 big knife in the lineup. If it falls apart on me you can tell me that you told me so.

Until then we can all agree to disagree and just be grateful that Spyderco offers lots of variety and that they try to make something for everybody.

Well said Killer! I’ve been biting my tongue.

If the knife is used for its intended purpose, which I’ll presume is an EDC pocket knife what does it matter if it has liners or not? :confused:

Personally, I think it’s a great looking knife, with a great blade shape and enough length to make for a great slicer. Shame it’s a back lock. I don’t look at the knife and think I’ll flog this thing making roofing shingles, pry industrial staples and cut myself and others out of overturned vehicles. :rolleyes:

[wrdwrght]

It occurs to me, the OP, to ask: do doubters of a linerless Chief actually think that Sal would cripple this model after giving it decades of thought, not to forget his massively refined experience?

[sal]

Thanx.

Actually Eric and Tom went over this model with the engineers for quite a while before making the decision to make it liner-less. We've done a lot of experimenting lately and you can see a lot in the many different designs and options. It surprises me that some would think to make decisions on values without any experience. if we screwed it up, we'll fix it, but we don't screw up often considering the many envelopes we're willing to push.

sal

[vivi]

Thanx.

Actually Eric and Tom went over this model with the engineers for quite a while before making the decision to make it liner-less. We've done a lot of experimenting lately and you can see a lot in the many different designs and options. It surprises me that some would think to make decisions on values without any experience. if we screwed it up, we'll fix it, but we don't screw up often considering the many envelopes we're willing to push.

sal

Sal,

Thank you, Eric, Tom and the others on your team who worked on this design. I'm really excited to have one in my pocket.

Seems like every time I settle on a favorite knife, you outdo yourself. Military to Police 3 to Police 4 to either the Police 4 lightweight or Chief. We'll see!

Having abused one of the original G10 UK Pen Knives, I have no concerns over the durability of the Chief. Got a linerless Pacific Salt clipped to my pocket at the moment. :)

[Pelagic]

Thanx.

Actually Eric and Tom went over this model with the engineers for quite a while before making the decision to make it liner-less. We've done a lot of experimenting lately and you can see a lot in the many different designs and options. It surprises me that some would think to make decisions on values without any experience. if we screwed it up, we'll fix it, but we don't screw up often considering the many envelopes we're willing to push.

sal

Sal, I was merely implying 3 things.

1. Despite popular belief, Spyderco is not unicef. You guys are a business first.
2. Not using liners saves money.
3. The final decision was influenced by #2.

That's it. I am not bashing your values. The thought of that is unwarranted and disingenuous. I just call it like it is.

I'm sorry to those who dislike my occasionally brash postings (and I try not to personally offend anyone — but I know my sarcasm can just be mildly condescending at times), but the group-think that exists on this site is nothing short of nauseating. There are a lot of people that have slipped into many "general consensus" type conclusions and are quick to reject outside opinions. I see this a lot, and that's why I'm able to bring up someone's argument against my opinion before they even say it. It's because I've seen it before. The exact same point. Some people don't even have a personal reason for their preference on something, they just like it because they were led to pasture years ago and cannot fathom anything different.

I obviously have a different outlook on knives than everyone here, minus a few. My line of work yields a unique scenario where the value of toughness in a folder shines brightly. Most people here cannot see that, or are unwilling to take a look. It's like something different will spoil the blissfully perfect utopia of conclusions carved into stone by the collective. Lol. Some people here ARE able to look at different ideas and say "ya know, that's an interesting point" instead of shooting it down instantly. I know I have quite a bit and am always learning. Believe it or not, I'm only opinionated on a very small area of subjects. In fact I know I have used the very word "ignorant" to describe myself on several occasions on this forum. I don't know why everything has to be so black and white when it comes to the online knife community. It honestly reminds me of politics. So many people set all logic and free, unmolested, independent thought aside in favor of a quick and misleadingly brief "answer". They often conclude first and investigate (very briefly) later. I think it's better to have an understanding of the many variables impacting a topic or scenario and NOT have an answer than to arrive at a conclusion based on little to no research. <—— I didn't have anything specific in mind while writing that, I'm just highlighting a concept.

I think I'm going to give you guys a break for a while. I simply can't bite my tongue on certain things and I know I've disrupted more than one Kum-ba-ya session lately. But it all comes from me liking spyderco knives. I was REALLY looking forward to the Chief for a year now, and I guess I blindly (and ignorantly) expected it to have liners, like the military, like the police 4, and like many other models that size. Even some natives had liners (which with a blade size that small, liners aren't nearly as necessary — a long blade is like a long lever... any inadvertent lateral pressure will be more forceful on the pivot). This was just stupid on my part. But I thought this was going to be the spyderco of all Spyderco's for me. I shouldn't have got my hopes up. I do think however, that there is an irrational desire within a good portion of the community for 99% of models to be as lightweight as possible. I realize lightweight knives have their place and I can appreciate them. But I do think liners serve a purpose (surprise!), and I don't think every model has to be a an extremely lightweight dedicated slicer. I feel the people who prefer this type of knife are MORE than covered by Spyderco's current offerings. But anyway, I realize I've been immature lately due to my arguably unwarranted frustration by this. So I'm going to bite my tongue and be a lurker for a while (hold your applause :p). There simply isn't any point to me expressing my concerns anyway. It isn't that they fall on deaf ears, it's that too many people have earplugs in.

My apologies to anyone I offended.

[ABX2011]

Look at the lack of popularity of the sprint run Native 5 with saber ground S90V/154cm laminate. That one has liners. Impossible to say for sure, by I think the saber grind is what turned most people off. And probably the added weight from the meatier blade and liners.
Ya can't please everyone all of the time.

[Wartstein]

Look at the lack of popularity of the sprint run Native 5 with saber ground S90V/154cm laminate. That one has liners. Impossible to say for sure, by I think the saber grind is what turned most people off. And probably the added weight from the meatier blade and liners.
Ya can't please everyone all of the time.

All the G10 Native 5s had liners till the "rolling change" starting with about March 2018. As far as I know not too few people are still looking for the discontinued linered models.

I personally don´t think that a knife as small as the Native does need liners, if it is well and thoughtfull designed to have none.
No experience though with larger linerless folders, so I am not entitled to join the discussion on that topic.