Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

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demoncase
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Re: Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

Postby demoncase » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:46 pm

carl3989 wrote:I'm sorry you guys in Europe have such high prices for knives. Look at the bright side, at least handguns are cheap and plentiful for your concealed carry enjoyment.
:rolleyes: Yeah, totally.....
Warhammer 40000 is- basically- Lord Of The Rings on a cocktail of every drug known to man and genuine lunar dust, stuck in a blender with Alien, Mechwarrior, Dune, Starship Troopers, Fahrenheit 451 and Star Wars, bathed in blood, turned up to eleventy billion, set on fire, and catapulted off into space screaming "WAAAGH!" and waving a chainsaw sword- without the happy ending.

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Re: Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

Postby gmhauy » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:48 pm

JT wrote:I've bought all my Spydies from trusted US dealers for years. Even if there's taxes and custom fees etc, it's still cheaper than buying within EU.
Same here. I've been buying from the Knife Center for 20 years or so, shipping cost is very reasonable and it takes 7 to 8 days to get to Madrid.

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Peter1960
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Re: Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

Postby Peter1960 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:02 pm

sal wrote:We've been working with our export distributors to try to come up with the best solutions. We even had some special group meetings in January. The main problem seems to be taxes, VAT's, and other added costs that our European distributors have to tolerate.
Sal, with all due respect: We have had no change in taxes and no change in VAT's during the last years in the European Union. This let me think that the problem is "other added costs" from your European distributors which causes the enormous price raise.

I fear with such a price policy they will not have much business in future ... only my thoughts and their responsibility.

BTW offers from Lamnia in Finland seems to be better in comparison to other competitors in the EU; as an example the Manix2 LTWT Maxamet, as other members posted in this thread: https://www.lamnia.com/de/p/16094/messe ... lappmesser
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Re: Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

Postby Johnnie1801 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:08 pm

I saw the Nirvana retail for 700 euro recently, that's about $760 compared to $440 in the US. There's definitely something going wrong, I paid about 60 euro for my Delica in 2013 and the same knife today is retailing for over 100 euro. I just don't understand how a knife made with the same materials can go up by 40% in the space of a few years.

Knowing Spyderco as I do I'm guessing any problems lie further down the supply chain, distributors, dealers and the tax men all taking a cut. The other problem I see is that dealers are offering knives for vastly different prices. With MAP pricing in the US, all the online dealers offer the same prices whereas here they are all different. I accept VAT can range from 19%-24% across the EU but why is a knife in Holland for example where the VAT rate is 19% more expensive than in Finland where the rate is 24%? Maybe it's time to make some type of Maximum Advertised Price and any dealer/distributor breaking it would lose their dealer status.

One thing that might help is maybe supplying dealers with European made knives directly from the factories in Europe. If the knives can be QC'd in the EU then they might not be eligible for the import duties and the prices would come down for those knives.

I guess the long term solution would be for Spyderco to eventually create a European office (Spyderco EU LTD. or something). The EU is the largest free market in the world with over 500 million people. Operating in the EU, Spyderco would be covered by EU law which would help massively in combating clones and fakes. Also, it would mean they could offer a warranty and repair services and maybe an SFO so we can get Mules and Forum knives. Certainly the EU market must be important to Spyderco and if people here continue to buy from the US then the market share for Spyderco in Europe is going to diminish.
Currently enjoying Spyderco's in - S30V, VG10, Super Blue, Cruwear x4, CTS XHP, S110V x2, M4 x3, S35VN, CTS 204P x2, S90V, HAP 40, K390, RWL34, MAXAMET, ZDP 189, REX 45


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tap78
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Re: Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

Postby tap78 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:29 pm

...and such high prices are also one of the reasons why the fakes from China are so popular... ;(
My :spyder:'s: Military Camo, Paramilitary 2 CTS-XHP Orange, Paramilitary 2 CTS-204P Green, Endura 4 ZDP-189 ComboEdge BRG, Endura 4 ZDP-189 FFG BRG, Manix 2 Lightweight Blue, Caly 3 G-10, Salt 1 Yellow SE C88SYL, Ulize, Manix I C95, Manix 2 XL S90v CF, Delica 4 CE Black C11PCBBK, Manix 2 154CM, Military All Black C36GPBK, Stretch SE C90SBK Black FRN, Caly3 CF ZDP-189/420J2, Sage 3 BoltLock CF, Gayle Bradley C134CFP, Squarehead C193TIP, Pacific Salt Yellow SE C91SYL, Pacific Salt Black C91PBK, Ladybug 3 Salt LYL3, Stretch CF ZDP-189 C90CF, Lum Large Chinese Folder C143G, Perrin Street Bowie FB04PBB, Mantra Titanium C202TI, Farid K-2 Titanium C185TI, Para 3 C223GPGYCW Para 3 Cruwear

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Evil D
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Re: Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

Postby Evil D » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:43 pm

Well, I used to pay $200 for Doc Martin boots...So...

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Re: Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

Postby tonijedi » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:57 pm

Portuguese knifenut here!

Thank you for this topic, it is in fact a very important issue that rose lately.
As many here did, I also used to buy a bunch of stuff from Heinnie, and I had a Black Delica on my mental wishlist that got to be removed from one day to the other when I went to check the price again.

Some years ago I bought many knives directly from the US, and risked paying taxes (which I did on some occasions). But now customs are really strict, I can't import a thing without it being held by the customs (as others from other EU countries have been experiencing, I think it's some joined efforts to strictly follow the rules). So, because it's a knife, I have to fill adicional paperwork (which can result on the police arresting the knife if I don't do it correctly or if they see a reason for it, never happened to me but happened to some fellows from our bushcraft community), and of course I have to pay:
-VAT (23%)
- Import taxes (5 to 10% aprox)
- Handling (Postal services where privatized and now I've to pay around 8€ when before it was just around 1-2€)

All these costs add up and for knives around 50-100€ the total price will be close to EU prices, at a much higher risk.
So, according to my opinion and experience, it isn't worth it to buy knives from outside the EU. This isn't only for Spyderco knives or the US, it's for every brand and every location outside the EU (my last experience importing a saw from Japan resulted in more than 100% adicional cost - yes, I payed a bit more than the double for it as I thought I would...)

Enough complaining, my solutions:

- I've been searching other online shops in the EU and I found coutellerie-tourangelle.com and thebestknives.eu both based in France
- These shops offer good prices (the best knives has the best deal on as Aqua Salt I've found, even considering US prices and shipping to EU)
- Drawback: high shipping price, I've to find someone near me to buy something and split shipping costs

To add to the debate:
- As other already pointed out, EU taxes didn't increase on the last months;
- Brexit still didn't happen, so Heinnie at the UK can't point it as a cause (I ordered and received something from amazon.co.uk on the last couple of weeks, everything normal, as it should)
- There were no big currency fluctuations;
- Knives made in Italy are still much more expensive in EU than in the US.

As for the Manix Maxamet:
https://www.thebestknives.eu/home/12260 ... &results=1

As someone ordered from these French websites?

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Re: Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

Postby Joris Mo » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:33 pm

Handling is about double that in the Netherlands!.. ;)

Have ordered stuff from Coutellerie Tourangelle before without complaints and thanks for thebestknives link, looks like the cheapest Spydie prices I've seen in EU so far, I'll keep it in mind.

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Re: Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

Postby valenciamanu » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:55 pm

The truth is that it is Spyderco who manufactures it and he will know the reason for the prices.
I do not care about these prices.
They put the prices and I decide if I am interested.And that's not what interests me.
I think I'll save some Spyderco I have without brand new.
I can sell them here at the same price they cost me.
Or even more expensive.
Although I now have no intention of selling my Spyderco.

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Re: Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

Postby brj » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:20 am

I've been buying most of my stuff from Roger @ Knifeworks since 2006 and don't plan to stop anytime soon. Out of the European distributors, Lamnia of Finland seems indeed to offer the best mix of stock availability, price and lead times - I've tried them out in 2015 with the JaniSong and still use them here & there.

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Re: Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

Postby dodgie02 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:59 am

sal wrote:Hi Dodgie,

Welcome to our forum.

It would be helpful to know where you are in a discussion like this. We've been working with our export distributors to try to come up with the best solutions. We even had some special group meetings in January. The main problem seems to be taxes, VAT's, and other added costs that our European distributors have to tolerate. We really appreciate our distributors overseas and many of them, like Edgar have been working with us for 3 decades. I worked with the fathers and Eric is working with the sons. It is because of these distributors that we even have a base in other countries. They are dedicated and loyal and have you, their customers in mind with all decisions. It's a challenging problem, but we will be persistent (Spyderco and the distributors) until we come up with the best solutions. Please try to be patient and understanding.
sal wrote:Hi Dodgie,

Welcome to our forum.

It would be helpful to know where you are in a discussion like this. We've been working with our export distributors to try to come up with the best solutions. We even had some special group meetings in January. The main problem seems to be taxes, VAT's, and other added costs that our European distributors have to tolerate. We really ap preciate our distributors overseas and many of them, like Edgar have been working with us for 3 decades. I worked with the fathers and Eric is working with the sons. It is because of these distributors that we even have a base in other countries. They are dedicated and loyal and have you, their customers in mind with all decisions. It's a challenging problem, but we will be persistent (Spyderco and the distributors) until we come up with the best solutions. Please try to be patient and understanding.

Hey Killer, MAAP was a step in gtrying to bring these divisions closer together. Of couse there are other probs, even in the US with pricing. "When you got problems, that's how you know you're not dead" :rolleyes: We all know that the customer always wants to pay the lowest price, but we also know that one must make a profit to stay in business.

We are also open to suggestions. :confused:

sal
What a pleasant suprise! A reply from the man himself. I feel quite humbled, I've come to love your products and conduct in the business as a whole. First of all, thanks for your hard word and commitment. Ever since I bought my delica 4 I loved it felt so right for EDC purposes. Learned to sharpen en reprofile on that delica and it's been through hell and back, but some time on the sharpening rods and it's good to go again. That's when I came into contact with your and your sons designs of the pm2 and Manix 2 so I read.
I wondered if it could surpass my first spyderco exprience, and this was the result after 3 quarters of a year later ;) Image.
I honestly admire the way spyderco strives for quality and innovation without losing sight of what matters. Functionality. All I need now is a Delica in 189-zdp and I should be done. There, it's not every day you meet the man behind your favourite knive(s) so I couldnt not help it!

As for where I am habitable, you mean? In the Netherlands.
Mid range spydies quite expensive, For example. I do not mind paying a fair provit over a product. But over here there is 1 giant knifeseller, which is basically the main hub for all brands and types of knives, tools, tactical cooking etc. I systematically see them charge prices where they put emphasis on hot words like s110v steel, and populair models like paramilitaries vary in price from 185 to above 200 euro for a coated s30v one for example.

Then there is the rulebook about importing from non-eu businesses and what limitations and liberties you have. For the sake of relavance I'll glace over the most relevant few when it comes to importing or buying dometically. `
First off: there is no danger my folding Spyderco of any sort will be seized (Save for if they recognize the brand or model upon inspection which I can't blame them, should I lose it. This is what NL customs filed under weapons of the stabbing kind and folders (no double edge on a folder is allowed, beside that you..
Examples
Examples of weapons and ammunition are:

firearms
bludgeons, thrust and stabbing weapons (such as knives, brass knuckles and swords)
gas heat guns
airsoft equipment
alarm guns
pepper spray
dummy weapons
ammunition

Examples of bludgeons, thrust and stabbing weapons, stilettos, switch blades and butterfly knives are:

folding knives with more than 1 cutting edge
folding knives that are 28 centimetres long in folded position
brass buckles
blackjacks
nunchakus
ninja stars
skinning knives
ballistic knives
arrows and arrow heads used to shoot with a bow and that have cutting edges that could injure someone
catapults
Dummy weapons that resemble real weapons. You are not allowed to bring these in to the Netherlands. Are you bringing in these weapons without a licence? We then seize these items.

So that's that, and I guess a folding machete with a leafblade and s110v for edc will remain a dream too.

Then there is the fee: when importing from outside the EU the following applies when inporting to the netherlands from company to person.
I have received a parcel from a non-EU country and I have to pay for it. How has this amount been calculated?close
Read
This amount comprises VAT and customs duties such as import duty. The amount of tax will depend on the purchase value and the goods category.

Example: purchase value is more than € 22 but less than € 150
You have bought a photo camera outside the EU costing € 149

Definition
amount
Price of the photo camera
€ 149
Shipping costs (for example, € 25)
€ 25
Insurance costs
€ 10
Customs duty
No customs duty needs to be paid because the value does not exceed € 150
€ 0
You must pay turnover tax on:
€ 149 + € 25 + € 10 = € 184
You will need to pay turnover tax because the value of the photo camera exceeds € 22
-
Turnover tax (VAT) on this photo camera is 21% of € 184
€ 38.64
In total
€ 222.64
In this example the tax to be paid will be € 38.64.

In most cases you will need to pay clearance and handling costs to the post or courier company.
So thats' usually it. Order for
half a lower price sometimes, if the postage plus selling price translate to less then 150EUR you only have to pay about 40~ extra, ususally saving more then 20 to 25 percent of local resell price.

Now, I would and have bought several things there as well , a sharpmaker for 110EUR (kudos on designing such a friendly device to learn sharpening and be efficient as well btw!), Delica 4 ffg, few overpriced leeks and diamond rods which were alright in price.

However, I have saved so much more money just ordering from the US. I see the s110v models of your flagships going in and out of stock on us sites, for example. Never have I seen more then 2 people buy one here, nor a manix g10 in s110v and I get it. I accept I'll pay more then in America, but if the price exceeds the norm so much that it has to go striuggle with the 300-400 EUR knives, I'd too be thinking one of the following thing: 1: But.. For 50 more I could get a sebenza if they have a sale sometime!, or I
d scuff and leave. I've seen retail Tenacious models going for more then 70EUR. First thing I thought was that for a few bucks more I mighth as well get a.. You catch my drift. However, we dont have much domestic choice beside them. I was in the market for a native 5 in 110v with frn handles, the brother of the manix 2 lw I got instead when I saw I could import them for a way better price and even choose whether I'd like a manix 2 lw or a native 5.
so I
I just joined and I'm not quite sure what was being expected of me to clearify. So I did my best to draft an image of what it's like to buy or what keeps people from getting the higher models. Thank you for taking interest in me, I have great respect for the ideals spyderco strives for and these are VERY well perceived in products themself. The first time I opened my PM2 and M2 I couldnt help grinning and trying to persuade the woman to 'feel how natural it handles. Haha. Keep it up!

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sal
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Re: Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

Postby sal » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:58 am

We appreciate your comments. Thanx and keep them coming.

sal

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Re: Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

Postby The Deacon » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:10 am

I still wonder whether this is really a "Spyderco prices" issue, or a more general "prices of knives from US manufacturers" issue in Europe.
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Re: Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

Postby demoncase » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:37 am

The Deacon wrote:I still wonder whether this is really a "Spyderco prices" issue, or a more general "prices of knives from US manufacturers" issue in Europe.
I don't know so much- I've not seen any differences in the price of Kabar or Cold Steel from the aforementioned retailers.....Which provides some confirmation (or at least confirmation bias!) to my points above.

It's not EVERY retailer either-
Mindyourfingers has the Centofante Memory at £204 (What we'd consider to be the normal UK price for this knife, give or take a £5)
Heinnie Hayes has the Centofante Memory listed for £306!

Unless the latter gets delivered to me by personal helicopter within 1 hour of purchasing, I can see why one is 30% more expensive than the other.
Warhammer 40000 is- basically- Lord Of The Rings on a cocktail of every drug known to man and genuine lunar dust, stuck in a blender with Alien, Mechwarrior, Dune, Starship Troopers, Fahrenheit 451 and Star Wars, bathed in blood, turned up to eleventy billion, set on fire, and catapulted off into space screaming "WAAAGH!" and waving a chainsaw sword- without the happy ending.

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Re: Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

Postby vilePossum » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:00 am

Well, prices have not exploded over here in Germany, but I have never once bought a knife from a retailer here in Germany. Always only second hand or from the states. Prices are straight catalog prices and up. Additionally distributor ACMA has been less than forthcoming in support.

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Re: Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:26 am

This is an idea, and not likely a very realistic one, but, I will put it out here anyhow:

How likely would it be for a group of knife-savvy Europeans to get together with Sal and Spyderco, and set up a "Spyderco Europe", which would purchase Spyderco knives in large lots direct from Spyderco USA, and then resell them to Europeans, like some other knife companies do? I know the idea has floated around but what are your thoughts on it? Would it work in the long term to spread the taxes and shipping costs over so many customers that the individual knives are more readily available to the European consumers?

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Re: Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

Postby ChrisinHove » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:55 am

demoncase wrote:
The Deacon wrote:I still wonder whether this is really a "Spyderco prices" issue, or a more general "prices of knives from US manufacturers" issue in Europe.
I don't know so much- I've not seen any differences in the price of Kabar or Cold Steel from the aforementioned retailers.....Which provides some confirmation (or at least confirmation bias!) to my points above.

It's not EVERY retailer either-
Mindyourfingers has the Centofante Memory at £204 (What we'd consider to be the normal UK price for this knife, give or take a £5)
Heinnie Hayes has the Centofante Memory listed for £306!

Unless the latter gets delivered to me by personal helicopter within 1 hour of purchasing, I can see why one is 30% more expensive than the other.
MYF prices seem to be getting much closer to HH's all of a sudden - PM2 £180 vs £183.95, Ouroborous £249 vs £244.95!!

(The PM2 has gone up 36% in 3 years)

The Leatherman Wave is £85 vs £119, however. Old stock, perhaps.

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Re: Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

Postby vilePossum » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:35 am

Nirvana 755,70€
http://acma.de/klappmesser/einhandmesse ... nium?c=445

Manix 2 maxamet 285,70€
http://acma.de/klappmesser/einhandmesse ... frcp?c=298

Plain pm2 213,70€
http://acma.de/klappmesser/einhandmesse ... g-10?c=439

Plain delica 116,70€
http://acma.de/hersteller/spyderco/sign ... lack?c=439

You can go a bit cheaper by getting stuff from a French ebay reseller, but that's it.
There is just no reason to buy a spyderco knife here in Europe / Germany unless you are desperate. Not to mention sprints which never become available, let alone exclusives which only seem to exists for us shops.

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Re: Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

Postby ChrisinHove » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:12 pm

I wonder what the "importer" does that a specialist retailer cannot, other than add to margins?

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Re: Spyderco prices in Europe exploded !

Postby The Deacon » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:21 pm

Ok, so ACMA is selling a PM2 with a US MSRP of $210 for 213,70€, which works out to $232.28 (or about 10% over MSRP) at current exchange rates. However, they're also selling a Benchmade 590BK Boost AO, with a US MSRP of $180 for 213,70€, which is obviously an even more inflated price. So, as with HH, it does not seem as if it's just Spyderco knives. Know I'm treading dangerously close to "tickling Polly", but perhaps this is more about payback for our new administration's attitude toward goods produced overseas than anything else.
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