So I've noticed that the detent ball on my Nirvana has flattened out. The knife still stays closed, and has a fairly snappy action, but it's not like it was and now I can open it using the drop test where I couldn't before. The knife was sent back for me by the store at which I bought it in the first place, but the request for service that they sent with it didn't specify the detent ball issue so it wasn't resolved in W&R (for which I don't blame W&R). However, this time around I wanted to check a few things.
1) Has anyone else had this issue in general from Taichung liner/frame locks, and the Nirvana in particular? Or is this completely normal-looking and the knife is just wearing in?
2) Is this something that W&R can/will repair if I send it in again? I'm hoping for an official response on that. :D
3) Am I being too particular about this? Is this something that's just going to happen and it'll come back and I should just let it go?
I took this picture less than an hour ago, right after I got the knife back in my hands. You can see the top of the detent ball is flattened out.
Had it happen to a mantra. The usual replies came negating the issue. I sent it in. Spyderco did keep it and gave me MSRP value to use towards another knife.
I proffered that the detent balls were too soft and that they needed to be swapped for ceramic detents. There have been some kind people that have shown how to change the detent balls to ceramic. It shouldn't need to be done by the consumer, you should be able to send it to spyderco or a spyderco authorized repair and modification person and they should automatically put a ceramic ball in there but that won't happen so you'll either send it to spyderco or void your warranty. I'd suggest sending it to spyderco so they can make proper decisions in the future. Pictures on this or any forum don't count. They need to see it in hand.
Spyderco, if you're listening your detent balls and bearings need to be upgraded. Some of your nicest knives are having problems, not with design or price, but with final execution. And it's cheaping out on some important but often overlooked features.
Nick Shabazz hit the nail on the head with his Knife Gripes Teflon vs. Phosphor Bronze washers video, and also on his "what makes a good budget knife" video. Although it should be expanded to most price ranges and materials.
They who dance are thought mad by those who do not hear the music.
I've had a couple that came with very lite detent, the Nirvana being o e of them, Schempp Bowie the other. Both I can get to open with wrist only. I think mine just have the detent ball set too far in. I'll probably send them in some day. I would definitely send yours in if your not happy, I'm sure they will take care of you.
Happy to be part of this great forum and group of down to earth spyderco addicts, Thanks Sal and gang. My Grails:Lum Tanto folder sprint, Sprint Persian(red), Captain, Manix 2 (M4), SB MT, PM2 M390, CF dodo, Manix2 (CF S90V),Manix2 XL S90V, ZowadaCF BalanceRassenti Nivarna, Lil' Nilakka, Tuff, Police 4,Chinook 4, Caly HAP4052100 Military, S110V Military, Any/All PM2 & Military sprints/exclusives I can get my grubby hands on :) :spyder: :) :spyder: :)
"We may look curious, homely, whatever, but we'll never be called unusable or undependable."
I have 8 Spydercos with detent balls (Mantra, 2-PM2, Para 3, Cat, Sage 1, Sage 2, Sage 5). Some are well used and all have been opened and closed a lot. I just looked at them all under magnification. They all look round and show no signs of wear. So (IMO) the flattening of detent balls is not something that should happen yet it obviously does happen occasionally. Send your Nirvana into Spyderco and let them take care of the problem.
Edit: Forgot about my 2 GB1s and Cricket. Detent balls are fine on those too but only one of the GBs has seen any real use.
Last edited by Sharp Guy on Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!
To the OP and anyone else, when you close the knife and disengage the frame/liner lock are you holding the lockbar until the ball (detent) rests on the tang? I hate when a friend checks out my knife and releases the lockbar early so that when closing, the ball (detent) is forced over the lockbar. This must increase wear on the ball (detent).
ABX2011 wrote:To the OP and anyone else, when you close the knife and disengage the frame/liner lock are you holding the lockbar until the ball (detent) rests on the tang? I hate when a friend checks out my knife and releases the lockbar early so that when closing, the ball (detent) is forced over the lockbar. This must increase wear on the ball (detent).
I try to hold the lockbar free as you describe but I can't promise I do it every time. That's certainly a point that could be a source of excess wear.
ABX2011 wrote:To the OP and anyone else, when you close the knife and disengage the frame/liner lock are you holding the lockbar until the ball (detent) rests on the tang? I hate when a friend checks out my knife and releases the lockbar early so that when closing, the ball (detent) is forced over the lockbar. This must increase wear on the ball (detent).
I've seen you (or someone else) mention this before. I have to be honest and say that, until I read about the harms of doing this, I did it a bunch with several of my knives. It still do it occasionally with some of my knives but try not to. Regardless, no harm to the detent balls at this point that I can see.
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!
ABX2011 wrote:To the OP and anyone else, when you close the knife and disengage the frame/liner lock are you holding the lockbar until the ball (detent) rests on the tang? I hate when a friend checks out my knife and releases the lockbar early so that when closing, the ball (detent) is forced over the lockbar. This must increase wear on the ball (detent).
Assuming you meant detent ball being forced into the lockface. I open the liner all the way until the ball is clear of the face and rides the tang.
Having seen inside, the ball has burnished a smooth track into the tang, while the ball has been ground flat. Operates smooth as a bar of soap on a pane of buttered glass, but it does leave the detent a touch weaker on an already soft hold. I am guessing the rougher satin finish on the very hard M4 does quite a number on the stainless steel detent ball (440c?).
Flattening of the detent ball should not be acceptable. I also don't think that you should have to hold the lock open until the ball clears the lock face. That sounds silly to me. I should not have to handle a pocket knife gingerly. Do you engage the lock when opening? The edge of the detent hole is not much different than the edge of the lock face. They are both 90 degree angles. The Nirvana at it's price point should have the little ramp for the detent ball to engage the tang. Does it? This mod should be implemented on all ball detent locks in my opinion.
Here is a pic I borrowed for clarity.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
The only way to be certain whether Spyderco considers something a warranty issue is to send it to them for evaluation with a note clearly describing the problem or problems. I know that's stating the obvious, but the obvious seems to elude a log of people.
The Deacon wrote:The only way to be certain whether Spyderco considers something a warranty issue is to send it to them for evaluation with a note clearly describing the problem or problems. I know that's stating the obvious, but the obvious seems to elude a log of people.
Clearly Paul, you have not been paying attention. This sort of thing can't be solved by mere logic alone. There have to be multi page threads full of meaningless back and forth bantering and walls of text quoted over and over, and then for good measure we need no less than 3 You Tube personalities to join in and make click bait videos describing how this small issue is going to destroy Spyderco if something isn't done about it.
The Deacon wrote:The only way to be certain whether Spyderco considers something a warranty issue is to send it to them for evaluation with a note clearly describing the problem or problems. I know that's stating the obvious, but the obvious seems to elude a log of people.
Clearly Paul, you have not been paying attention. This sort of thing can't be solved by mere logic alone. There have to be multi page threads full of meaningless back and forth bantering and walls of text quoted over and over, and then for good measure we need no less than 3 You Tube personalities to join in and make click bait videos describing how this small issue is going to destroy Spyderco if something isn't done about it.
This made me laugh. :p
To clarify, I don't believe my knife is defective or broken, and I was one who defended the "issue" with lock stick on the Nirvana. I think that something like detent balls are very, very difficult to QC, and I got a less-than-stellar example. And honestly if it were any of my other knives with detent balls, I probably wouldn't care much unless it was actually causing issues with opening or with staying closed. Buuuut it's a Nirvana.
bearfacedkiller wrote:Flattening of the detent ball should not be acceptable. I also don't think that you should have to hold the lock open until the ball clears the lock face. That sounds silly to me. I should not have to handle a pocket knife gingerly. Do you engage the lock when opening? The edge of the detent hole is not much different than the edge of the lock face. They are both 90 degree angles. The Nirvana at it's price point should have the little ramp for the detent ball to engage the tang. Does it? This mod should be implemented on all ball detent locks in my opinion.
I agree that it would be ideal to have the ramp pretty much all the time. I looked pretty closely just now, and while I can see a spot where the detent ball is clearly wearing on the tang a bit on the edge, it does not have a ramp.
hoimin wrote:
ABX2011 wrote:To the OP and anyone else, when you close the knife and disengage the frame/liner lock are you holding the lockbar until the ball (detent) rests on the tang? I hate when a friend checks out my knife and releases the lockbar early so that when closing, the ball (detent) is forced over the lockbar. This must increase wear on the ball (detent).
Assuming you meant detent ball being forced into the lockface. I open the liner all the way until the ball is clear of the face and rides the tang.
Having seen inside, the ball has burnished a smooth track into the tang, while the ball has been ground flat. Operates smooth as a bar of soap on a pane of buttered glass, but it does leave the detent a touch weaker on an already soft hold. I am guessing the rougher satin finish on the very hard M4 does quite a number on the stainless steel detent ball (440c?).
This knife is S90V and that's a fairly hard steel; I could see it causing issues for something like 440C.
@Sal and Co.: I'd appreciate some guidance on this. I sent the knife in already, but the issue wasn't corrected and the paperwork we received back didn't mention anything about it. I did find out today that the instructions sent with the knife might've been a bit ambiguous, so it may not have been examined specifically for the detent ball. I just don't want to waste time sending it back in if this isn't something that W&R will repair. I have a picture of the invoice for the previous trip from the store that sent it in for me, if you need to see that. Thanks!
Every Taichung model I've owned has shown moderate to severe detent ball wear over time.
My GB2 showed the least, while the detent ball on my Southard is almost flush with the framelock.
I used to think it might have something to do with the bead-blast, acid etch, and tumbled finishes somehow weakening the ball. But the liner on the GB2 lacks all of those features. Perhaps the detent balls are sub par to begin with.
I've not had the same problem with the detent balls from other factories. The detents in my Millies, PM2, Yo2, Pattada, and Herbst don't show signs of wear (to the naked eye).
Untitled by dplafoll, on Flickr
