Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

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dj moonbat
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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby dj moonbat » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:32 am

archangel wrote:I do not own a millie yet because of the liner lock. It is so ordinary, you find it on $5 China knives. :( Plus I never understood why people favour a locking mechanism that puts the unlocking finger into the way of the blade's sharp edge. That just makes no sense. It is the only weak point of my K2, the only other liner lock Spydie I own.

I put the millie on my list of next purchases anyway because what good is a Spydie collection without millie?!

Now I'm thrilled to learn that there's a good chance they will replace the liner lock. Back locks are strong locks, so that's fine with me. Just curious to learn when the Millie2 will hit the shelves. Oh, and of course what steels will be used. :) Please let one be S110V... ;)
A couple things:

One, Sal has said that the Millie and Millie 2 (if it ever arrives) would be sold in parallel, so they wouldn't be replacing the liner lock.

Two, the Power Lock is not a back lock, although it does have the lock release on the back of the knife (you can see the internals on page 78 of the 2017 catalog). As Evil D says, it looks very similar to the second example implementation of the Stop Lock, a mechanism wherein a rotating pin is simultaneously the lock and stop pin. Both implementations are shown in the patent application: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6918184.pdf.

Personally, I'm far more interested in the first implementation, which would allow a user to close the knife from the side, keeping the digits clear of the blade path--a feature I'm loving in my PM2 I recently bought. In the first implementation, it's not clear how (or whether) the lock release would be spring-loaded, though.

As an aside: does anybody know why Spyderco hasn't retrofitted the Compression Lock into the Military? It seems like it would be a perfect choice.

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby fanucman » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:28 am

Military with compression lock would be perfect

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby BrandoSpoke » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:44 am

hopefully it will have a 4 way pocket clip cause thats one of the only things a lot of people are questioning before buying it
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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby fanucman » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:34 am

I think people that are mad about the clip orientation must not have carried one, every knife I've had has been tip up but I just got a military and I think I adapted to it the second or third time I pulled it out of my pocket. Could be wrong, but it feels intuitive to me.

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby vivi » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:57 am

fanucman wrote:I think people that are mad about the clip orientation must not have carried one, every knife I've had has been tip up but I just got a military and I think I adapted to it the second or third time I pulled it out of my pocket. Could be wrong, but it feels intuitive to me.
I used to hope for a tip up Military but after paying to get some modded in the past, I left my current ones tip down. It works well for the model.

I mainly want to see a new lock type of the knife, otherwise its pretty much perfect. The liner lock has always performed flawlessly on this particular model, but I'd prefer something that does not require the large cut-out on the scale. I think the handle would be more comfortable without that cut-out, especially in reverse grip. I also prefer a good self-close built into the lock mechanism.

Its a classic as is though. When I lost my CPMD2 model I thought about waiting until the version 2 came out to buy one. That idea didn't last long. Feels wrong not having one in the rotation :)

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby archangel » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:52 am

dj moonbat wrote:
archangel wrote:I do not own a millie yet because of the liner lock. It is so ordinary, you find it on $5 China knives. :( Plus I never understood why people favour a locking mechanism that puts the unlocking finger into the way of the blade's sharp edge. That just makes no sense. It is the only weak point of my K2, the only other liner lock Spydie I own.

I put the millie on my list of next purchases anyway because what good is a Spydie collection without millie?!

Now I'm thrilled to learn that there's a good chance they will replace the liner lock. Back locks are strong locks, so that's fine with me. Just curious to learn when the Millie2 will hit the shelves. Oh, and of course what steels will be used. :) Please let one be S110V... ;)
A couple things:

One, Sal has said that the Millie and Millie 2 (if it ever arrives) would be sold in parallel, so they wouldn't be replacing the liner lock.

Two, the Power Lock is not a back lock, although it does have the lock release on the back of the knife (you can see the internals on page 78 of the 2017 catalog). As Evil D says, it looks very similar to the second example implementation of the Stop Lock, a mechanism wherein a rotating pin is simultaneously the lock and stop pin. Both implementations are shown in the patent application: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6918184.pdf.

Personally, I'm far more interested in the first implementation, which would allow a user to close the knife from the side, keeping the digits clear of the blade path--a feature I'm loving in my PM2 I recently bought. In the first implementation, it's not clear how (or whether) the lock release would be spring-loaded, though.

As an aside: does anybody know why Spyderco hasn't retrofitted the Compression Lock into the Military? It seems like it would be a perfect choice.
Thanks for adding this information. Does not change anything for me though. People who like liner locks may purchase the original design. I for sure will wait for the modified one.

I too love the compression lock of the PM2. But I guess using this for the millie would make the two too "un-individual", if that's a word.
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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby Evil D » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:12 pm

fanucman wrote:I think people that are mad about the clip orientation must not have carried one, every knife I've had has been tip up but I just got a military and I think I adapted to it the second or third time I pulled it out of my pocket. Could be wrong, but it feels intuitive to me.

It's​ about willingness to adapt, or lack thereof. Nothing wrong with having preferences I guess but I'd go up against anyone with a modded tip up carry Military in a draw speed competition. It's just faster and requires less dexterity to draw tip down on a knife this long especially with as much knife you have sticking out of your pocket. But, speed also isn't a priority to some so to each his own.
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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby vivi » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:49 pm

Ergonomics come into play too. Szabo folder is faster out of the pocket for me tip down, but in the hand I like the tip up placement better so I keep it tip up.

Most knives I only ever use tip up, but around the size of the Military (or anything bigger) is when I try out both methods to see which suits the knife better. Something with a self-close like the Szabo or Police 3 I'm more inclined to carry tip-up vs a detent based lock like on the Military, something else to consider.

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby Afterman » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:42 pm

Would a Power Lock Military 2 be easily closed one handed?

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby vivi » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:34 pm

Probably depends on your hand size. I have no issues closing my Police 3 one handed, but I could see it being tricky for someone with small hands.

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby ZrowsN1s » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:08 pm

dj moonbat wrote:
As an aside: does anybody know why Spyderco hasn't retrofitted the Compression Lock into the Military? It seems like it would be a perfect choice.
Personally I find the compression lock to be superior in every way to the liner lock, in my view every liner lock in the catalog should be replaced with the compression lock as part of CQI. Some folks really don't like it. And as far as "change" goes.... a lot of people hold the Military to be spyderco's best design as is, so when you suggest changing it....

I think that having two different versions of the Military on the market at the same time with different locks is genius. They should make a BBL Millie and a tip up carry 'waved' version too ;)
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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby Evil D » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:24 pm

I love the compression lock, but there are two things it doesn't do nearly as well as any liner lock knife (or a back lock for that matter)..

1) Gloved hand operation. I found this out when I used to carry a Para 2 and worked in a -20 degree freezer and wore ridiculously thick wool mittens. Even in mittens I could make it work, but there's no denying the Military was far easier to unlock. This may not matter to those who never work in gloves, but then that is the whole idea behind the Military, to be used by those who are doing serious work, the kind that often includes gloves. It needs to be easy to operate under all conditions.

2) Ergonomics. This is the big one, and any of you can go test it for yourself if you have a Military and any other compression lock knife. Go get a piece of hard wood and start carving into it nice and hard. Give it hell. Whittle a nice big pile and really bear down on the knife with a full fisted grip. Do that with both knives and I guarantee you'll get a hot spot on your palm from the compression lock, while the Military is nice and smooth in that area where your palm is pressing into the cut. They could get around this by doing away with the lock access cutout like they're doing with the Hanan, but then you lose easy operation with gloves on.



Personally I find the liner lock to be quite boring. But I also find the back lock to be about as excited as watching paint dry. They both get the job done though. Locks like the compression lock and CBBL and bolt action lock all have that nifty ability to close the knife without having your fingers in the path of the blade, and I really do like that. For that reason, I would love to see a compression lock Military. It would kick major arse. But, I honestly don't think it would make as good of a user because of the two issues I just went over. That all depends on your uses of course, but keep in mind what the Military is about. It's the knife you would send your son or daughter off to war with. It has to be easy to use in any situation.
Last edited by Evil D on Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby TomAiello » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:32 pm

What are the advantages of the liner lock? Is it more reliable? Lighter? Easier to use in some situations?

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby murphjd25 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:37 pm

I never understood all the fuss over liner locks, they work great and I've never had one fail. The liner lock on the Military is probably the best liner lock I've handled it is done very well.
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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby sal » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:44 pm

TomAiello wrote:What are the advantages of the liner lock? Is it more reliable? Lighter? Easier to use in some situations?
Hi Tom,

Yes, It can be lighter, which was a major requirement for the Millie, because it comes in from the side, a wider blade will fit into the handle, done properly, it is easy to use with gloves. It's simple in concept, though difficult to execute well.

sal

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby vivi » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:53 pm

Evil D wrote:2) Ergonomics. This is the big one, and any of you can go test it for yourself if you have a Military and any other compression lock knife. Go get a piece of hard wood and start carving into it nice and hard. Give it hell. Whittle a nice big pile and really bear down on the knife with a full fisted grip. Do that with both knives and I guarantee you'll get a hot spot on your palm from the compression lock, while the Military is nice and smooth in that area where your palm is pressing into the cut.
On the other hand, the large liner lock cut-out to facilitate easier closing reduces ergonomics as well. Granted pressure is more often applied to the compression lock release side than the liner lock release, but on heavy draw cuts I've always felt the cut-out on the Military reduced ergonomics.


Personally I find the liner lock to be quite boring. But I also find the back lock to be about as excited as watching paint dry.
The compression lock used to be my favorite lock because of how quick and easy I can manipulate it, but in 2016 I had a compression lock folder open in my pocket twice, and a liner lock folder come open as well. Since then I haven't purchased anymore detent based knives and have gravitated towards those with a self close. For that reason I really like the backlock. I also find them easy to close one handed. The only areas the seem to not excel in is they tend to weigh more than liner locks, and they are often not as easy to open. The latter is a feature for me but understandably a drawback for many.

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby vivi » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:00 pm

murphjd25 wrote:I never understood all the fuss over liner locks, they work great and I've never had one fail. The liner lock on the Military is probably the best liner lock I've handled it is done very well.
For me its two reasons. The first is I think if the Military could implement a lock that doesn't require cutting out a portion of the out scale, it would improve ergonomics. The Manix XL vs the Military, for example. When you grip the Manix the cut-outs for the ball bearing lock don't effect ergonomics like the cut-out for the Military can in certain situations.

Granted this is a minor nitpick because even with the cut-out the Military is still one of the most comfortable folding knives ever made.

The other is that I've had a few liner lock and compression lock knives come open in my pocket, and I'd like to see the Military come with a lock that features a self-close mechanism. Maybe its just paranoia, as I've never had a Military in particular come open accidentally, and its an example of a liner lock done perfectly.

So for my strange, particular tastes, any lock that can be implemented with no lock cut-out and features a self close would be ideal. If it were me, I'd try to make an LC200N CBBL Military :D

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby KingRat » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:44 am

Thought I would mention this here. A prototype with a stop lock was present at Blade 2017. It doesn't appear to be the Military 2.

//forum.spyderco.com/viewto ... 6&start=20

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby jpm2 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:21 pm

If I could convert all my folders to liner locks, I would.

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby Jazz » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:54 am

jpm2 wrote:If I could convert all my folders to liner locks, I would.
You sir, are insane. ;) My least favorite, least trusting lock, so I had to say it.
- best wishes, Jazz.


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