D'Allara 3 feedback

[sal]

The new D'Allara is a pilot for an FRN model planned for the future. I'd like to get as much feedback as possible before engineering the mold. We know the access to the ball for unlocking is still difficult for some, but we also recognize that a bit of a learning curve is required. Please share your thoughts and experience. Thanx much.

sal

[Evil D]

I can't add much since I don't have one yet but my main request is to make the handle as contoured and sexy as you can. I know a lot of people hate the bulk of a thicker knife but it won't hurt anyone if just this one knife has really amazing ergonomics.

[sal]

I hand carved a wood sample of the original.

sal

[demoncase]

I'm sure you've thought of it but I think maybe making the bevel around the ball lock a little less steep in angle would help
Terrible drawing to explain: These are a section through the scales/handle, looking from the butt end of the knife.

On the left is what we have right now- a very narrow bevel/chamfer around the ball pocket.
Without making the ball bigger, I think making the 'dent' to get at the ball broader by using a longer, shallower chamfer/bevel as on the right.

This would allow more access to the ball with the pads of the finger and thumb, rather than with just the fingernail

Also: The spring seemed much stronger than either of my Dalarras and my Manixes. Softening that a little might contribute too...I think I've been spoiled a bit by the extra grip afforded by the Manix cage though

[Larry_Mott]

As far as i am concerned, being a conservative luddite, you could just carbon copy the first D'Allara and i'd be a happy camper.
Major concern in Amsterdam was manipulating the lock though, so more scalloping around the ball is #1

[Evil D]

I would be totally fine with copying the original. I'm not too keen on a wire clip on such a heavy knife though so I wouldn't mind seeing something different for a clip.

[Robbob]

I hand carved a wood sample of the original.

sal

What, no pics?

I don't have a D'Allard; too many sprints are higher on the list. However, it does look very nice and is on my radar. I know some have issues with the lock and say it requires two hands to close. I have to use two hands to close my Manix 2, so the lock on the D' probably wouldn't bother me. Besides, the D' is a rescue knife, so fast opening and strong lock-up seem much more important than one-handed closing.

[Reject]

These are only the thoughts that run though my mind. So don’t take them too seriously.

With models like the Military, Para Military and Police, I look forward. To each modification, each innovation that makes them even better tools. The new changes to a old model like the Chinook; I look forward to those.

But for some reason with the D’Allara, I look back.
(Reminder; That these are just the thoughts of some old bloke on the other side of the planet.)

I think the making of the D’Allara was one of those defining moments that told us a lot about the Spyderco company. The reason for it’s dedication to Mr D’Allara even brings a tear to the eye of us on the other side of the planet. I just feel they need to get this one right.

Ok; it’s just a knife. That’s probably going a bit over the top. I just feel that a Spydie fan should be able to look in to the display case and say that’s a D’Allara. Without needing to read the name on the box. The D’Allara pilot doesn’t do that. I hope the FRN model does.

It could be that I am just a bit slow and my thinking is way, way, way behind the thinking at Spyderco. Why else would there be a pilot put out for feed back, before the FRN model.

The most valuable knives in a collection are those with a story behind them and the D’Allara has a lot more than just a story behind it.

Love to get the World Trade Center model, but not on my knife budget. Will get the Pilot and the FRN models.

[dplafoll]

Better lock access is really the only complaint I'd have about this knife. Otherwise I really like it, and with better lock access I'd be more likely to buy it. I don't have a preference between the FRN or G-10, but I do like how slim the G-10 model is, so I'd like to see the FRN model still be very slim.
My ideal would be a D'allara 3, with a little bit better lock access, and in the green color and HAP40 steel of the Caly3 sprint.

[Evil D]

Is it too soon to ask for a sheepsfoot version? I'll have mine in both edge types please :D

[Robbob]

After reading some other replies I had another thought. Lock access issue aside, I think the problem really is that the 3 is more of a gentleman's knife than its predecessors. I remember searching for more info on it and thinking it odd it would be considered a rescue knife. Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful knife and fits right in the Spyderco family tree. I'm just not sure it should be called a D'Allara.

[Evil D]

This knife has two things that I absolutely LOVE and I wish more knives would have in the future.

1. Full edge-to-tang blade grind. There's no choil, so don't waste any blade length on anything that isn't an edge. The original fell short in this area. Give me the most edge possible for the given blade length.

2. Neutral grip ergonomics. I enjoy choils and 50/50 choils and things like that, but it's hard to beat a grip that doesn't force your fingers into any one position, especially when there are multiple points and choils and such that force all your fingers to go towards a particular grip/position. This tends to only work really well for some people, with the rest of us with either larger than usual or even smaller than usual hands finding our fingers fall on the points between finger spacing, which ruins ergonomics (ahem, Delica). The D'Allara's grip is suitable for any hand that can fit in the grip from end to end. I think some people see this as a "lesser quality design", but I don't get it. I assume this is one thing about the Tenacious/value line of knives that people compare to more expensive knives like the Para 2/Manix 2 and say "well the handle is not as good as those more expensive knives", I guess because it doesn't have those scoops and scallops. It may well be a more simple design, but ergonomics don't have to be complicated to be good.

A third detail, once it happens, will be the contoured handle. I've said it before, if I had it my way every knife in the catalog would have some level of handle scale contouring, even a small amount makes a huge difference in grip feeling.

I think the drawback with this knife is the overall "vanilla" styling. Like I mentioned before, it isn't flashy, it doesn't have any trendy blade grinds or swoopy handle curves, and it's coming from a model that was largely a love it or leave it model to begin with. I personally had zero interest in this model until I actually got one in my hand and used it, and then I was completely blown away and saddened that this model had come and gone before I came into the brand. Hopefully this model (and the FRN one to follow) don't fizzle out, I really think if more people got to use one they would understand that the awesomeness with the original wasn't so much in the looks (as I suspect this one is too) but is in the use.

[Diamondback]

As far as i am concerned, being a conservative luddite, you could just carbon copy the first D'Allara and i'd be a happy camper.
Major concern in Amsterdam was manipulating the lock though, so more scalloping around the ball is #1

I second this sentiment.

[Halfneck]

Improving lock access, and decreasing weight & bulk. Those were probably the 3 biggest issues with the original D'Allara. The bulk did translate into good ergonomics though. Always thought a nice chunk of weight could of been reduced by getting rid of the full metal backspacer.

Something looked off on the new one to me & it took that side by side shot to show me what. Purely aesthetic, but I prefer the way the forward part of the scales on the original are curved like a guard.

[dogrunner]

I am the wrong person to ask so you can ignore this,,,
but, I love the blade shape, but have small hands, so the I sold the original because the handle was just too big. I know a lot of guys love it, though. It looks very ergonomic, just did not fit me.
Ball locks in general are a problem for me. I spend half the year with splits in my finger tips (happens every winter), which makes many locks very difficult to open. Not a fan of RIL for the same reason, although the military liner lock is not a problem. Back locks are not a problem. The manix 2 lock is not even a problem, although it takes me two hands to close it. I like the Tusk a lot (I do a lot of rope work and this is a great rope tool) but the locks are a challenge.
I am glad to see the Dallara back though.

[thombrogan]

The lack of a 50/50 choil has kept me from enjoying the original D'Allara and D'Allara Drop Point knives as much as I enjoy other models.

With the new model, they kept it off the blade so hard that it wiped the choil off the Chinook 4 as well.

If adding a 50/50 choil is a deal-breaker for the design, I'll be happy lusting over several other :spyder: knives.

[PSquared]

...... We know the access to the ball for unlocking is still difficult for some, but we also recognize that a bit of a learning curve is required. Please share your thoughts and experience. Thanx much.

sal

I will probably get a D'Allara once my preferred online supplier gets them in stock even though I know that I will get frustrated with the lock. I own a WTC D'Allara that is unashamedly a safe queen and a Tusk. The marlinspike on the Tusk is a great fidget toy - it's like fiddling with a knife in front of the TV with a lot less risk of cutting yourself in the process - I can work the BBL on the Tusk one handed with my significantly less dexterous left hand - I suspect my learning curve, when I get a D'Allara 3 will be shallower than some others'.

Reading what I have, having fiddled with my WTC knife and having really disliked the Manix CBBL, I have a lot of trepidation about the D'Allara lock release.

Also bear in mind that like a lot of Spyderco users, I use other brands of knives as well and have a great fondness for Axis locks - I really want (expect?) the BBL to disengage with the ease and smoothness of an Axis lock. I'm not sure if it is possible to get away from user comparisons to the Axis lock.

A larger ball probably isn't the answer without pushing the pivot even further down and the blade, in the closed position, even further out - The design / engineering gets more and more interesting. I'd like to see potential solutions to get easier finger and thumb pad access to the ball but I would suggest that if the FRN version is to appeal to a larger market (to make the costs of the molds less painful) a change in lock might be an option. It won't be a D'Allara any more but it will be a great Japanese made knife with no choil, maximum cutting edge, no jimping and a handle that is comfortable for any hand size and in most grips. A back lock would keep the Spyderco heritage strong but dare I say it, now that the Axis patent has expired, if an arrangement can be made, it would be a great candidate for the first Axis Spyderco as not too much of the original design thinking would be lost.

I probably need to go and wash my mouth out with soap and put on a flame proof suit right about now but I doubt I'm the only person thinking on these lines .....

[sal]

Great well thought out comments. Appreciate. I imagine we'll get more once the model is out there.

John D'Allara was a policeman performing a rescue operation. A common activity for cops. 911 changed all of us that remember it and we'll never forget it. The original WTC knife was made for the Widows and Orphan's fund, which helped us donate a fair amount to the fund.

I'm trying to convert the "collector" of the model to a very efficient user. The pattern is simple, but fairly evolved for function. The ball lock without the cage is very simple and efficient, few moving parts, highly effective. Full blade/edge ratio, full flat grind, slimmer in general (the bulk was good in the hand, but "left on the dresser because it's too bulky to carry" is a problem for carry.

I really appreciate your sharing thought.

sal

[Fred Sanford]

-No jimping. I think things have gotten a little carried away in that it seems like we rarely see a knife without jimping. I like it some of the time but feel it is not necessary.

-Skeletonize the heck out of the liners if you don't already

-Unless it is needed, get rid of the entire length stainless backspacer. Replace with standoffs.

Thanks for asking!

[Evil D]

Great well thought out comments. Appreciate. I imagine we'll get more once the model is out there.

John D'Allara was a policeman performing a rescue operation. A common activity for cops. 911 changed all of us that remember it and we'll never forget it. The original WTC knife was made for the Widows and Orphan's fund, which helped us donate a fair amount to the fund.

I'm trying to convert the "collector" of the model to a very efficient user. The pattern is simple, but fairly evolved for function. The ball lock without the cage is very simple and efficient, few moving parts, highly effective. Full blade/edge ratio, full flat grind, slimmer in general (the bulk was good in the hand, but "left on the dresser because it's too bulky to carry" is a problem for carry.

I really appreciate your sharing thought.

sal

How do you feel about doing thick 3D machined or contoured G10 scales with a G10 back spacer, sort of like the new Manix? That would give us the grip shape and keep things simple and maybe cut down on weight. If not completely linerless maybe you can do minimal liners like there are in the Manix Lightweight.