Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

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Mikael Andersson
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Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

Postby Mikael Andersson » Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:57 pm

There is something missing in Spyderco's lineup... knives with wooden handles.

There could be cocobolo, rosewood, american oak, snakewood and many many more.

And the blade steel could be the improved razor blade steel 14C28N which is both sharp and highly rust resistant.

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Re: Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

Postby jdw » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:20 pm

nm
Last edited by jdw on Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Donut
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Re: Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

Postby Donut » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:20 pm

You mean like the Sage 4? http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/C123WD/716

There was a wooden handled fixed blade, the first bushcraft? With Golden being in Colorado, the wood handles didn't respond well to the changes in air pressure.
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Re: Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

Postby EDC Honeybee » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:27 pm

Having done some of this stuff, there are a few problems.

Using exotic woods can be really hard with manufacturing processes. G10 and micarta annd steel and aluminum and FRN are all really predictable. If spyderco used wood, they might expect to waste more parts due to natural variations, warp, etc.

Next, wood isnt as durable. The spring in lockbacks is held in a pocket in the handle which may be a common point of failure if made from wood, since wood will likely crack as it goes under moisture, drying, cold, hot, all under spring pressure. Spyderco could just make the scales from wood to prevent this problem, but then there is the problem of compression, expansion, etc. Most of spyderco's knives are made to close enough tolerances that these factors could be a problem.

Next, wood takes more time and $ to finish. peel-ply g10 has the finish built in. There are lots of established processes for finishing steel. FRN has the finish mostly built in. Wood usually takes some sort of finishing process and can add cost.

Ideally, wood scales should be from a consistent wood, and should be a part of the knife that isnt structural. I think the Boker Urban trapper cocobolo is a perfect example. Some might mention the Sage (what number is it?) with the (ironwood?). I saw a few at the seconds sale, all with broken scales where the wood cracked along the grain due to the screw tension.

Anyways, its not impossible, not impractical, but has many challenges that aren't necessarily in Spyderco's current wheelhouse. Maybe go support a maker who makes wooden scales that you like? I know that myself, Boomer, Knockwood Blades, and many others make scales for spyderco knives, some from wood. To me part of the draw of wood is the warmth that comes from the item being completely unique. Factory-made wood takes away some of that "warmth" to me.

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Re: Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

Postby Mikael Andersson » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:22 am

EDC Honeybee wrote:Having done some of this stuff, there are a few problems.

Using exotic woods can be really hard with manufacturing processes. G10 and micarta annd steel and aluminum and FRN are all really predictable. If spyderco used wood, they might expect to waste more parts due to natural variations, warp, etc.

Next, wood isnt as durable. The spring in lockbacks is held in a pocket in the handle which may be a common point of failure if made from wood, since wood will likely crack as it goes under moisture, drying, cold, hot, all under spring pressure. Spyderco could just make the scales from wood to prevent this problem, but then there is the problem of compression, expansion, etc. Most of spyderco's knives are made to close enough tolerances that these factors could be a problem.

Next, wood takes more time and $ to finish. peel-ply g10 has the finish built in. There are lots of established processes for finishing steel. FRN has the finish mostly built in. Wood usually takes some sort of finishing process and can add cost.

Ideally, wood scales should be from a consistent wood, and should be a part of the knife that isnt structural. I think the Boker Urban trapper cocobolo is a perfect example. Some might mention the Sage (what number is it?) with the (ironwood?). I saw a few at the seconds sale, all with broken scales where the wood cracked along the grain due to the screw tension.

Anyways, its not impossible, not impractical, but has many challenges that aren't necessarily in Spyderco's current wheelhouse. Maybe go support a maker who makes wooden scales that you like? I know that myself, Boomer, Knockwood Blades, and many others make scales for spyderco knives, some from wood. To me part of the draw of wood is the warmth that comes from the item being completely unique. Factory-made wood takes away some of that "warmth" to me.
You are mad as a hatter. :p

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Re: Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

Postby VashHash » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:22 am

I'd prefer stag handles

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Re: Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

Postby Mikael Andersson » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:43 am

VashHash wrote:I'd prefer stag handles
You want to slaughter innocent wild and free animals just to get your **** side scales?!

Heh, just kiddin'. ;)

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Re: Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

Postby VashHash » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:46 am

Mikael Andersson wrote:
VashHash wrote:I'd prefer stag handles
You want to slaughter innocent wild and free animals just to get your **** side scales?!

Heh, just kiddin'. ;)
If that's what it takes.

On a side note. Antlers drop every year. Trees don't just drop branches. We're slaughtering millions of trees for handle scales already. I think wood scales are unethical..... But snakewood sure does look good.

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Re: Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

Postby Mikael Andersson » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:52 am

VashHash wrote:
Mikael Andersson wrote:
VashHash wrote:I'd prefer stag handles
You want to slaughter innocent wild and free animals just to get your **** side scales?!

Heh, just kiddin'. ;)
If that's what it takes.

On a side note. Antlers drop every year. Trees don't just drop branches. We're slaughtering millions of trees for handle scales already. I think wood scales are unethical..... But snakewood sure does look good.
Ah, yes they do drop each year... it's just the small matter of finding them out in the woods.

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Re: Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:48 am

I don't know about Louisiana but here in the north east we spend a bit of time each spring picking up branches. Maybe it is our windy fall days or our New England winters but our trees drop branches and lots of them.

I assume that unlike 50 years ago when stag came through the same supply channels as furs that today most of it comes from farm raised animals. Elk and deer are both being farmed in large numbers these days.

Anyhow, I like the idea of more wood and started a thread just a little while ago about it.

//forum.spyderco.com/viewto ... =2&t=72595
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sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

Postby Donut » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:34 pm

I have enough traditionals with wood scales. I even have a Japanese swiss army knife style knife with wood scales. I think wood was one of the cheapest scale materials on those.

For the "tactical"/easy use/tool knives, I'm alright with G-10, Carbon Fiber, Glass fiber < one of my faves, and Titanium.
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Re: Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

Postby Donut » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:41 pm

I was just thinking about all of the wooden scaled Spyderco's I've seen on here.

I assume that you know that you can pay a custom modder about $100 to create almost every suggestion I've seen you suggest on here. As long as it is a different scale or the blade is shorter, it's all just a mod away.

If you wanted something with a longer than production blade, you could probably put $500-$1,000 into having a Spyderco licensed knife maker create one for you.
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Re: Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:56 pm

A compromise would be wood-LIKE scales. Say, synthetic materials that mimic wood but which are far more durable and resistant to the elements, and also stabilized woods like pakkawood and diamondwood (anyone here remember that? Wood with plastic permeating the layers). I like the idea of the Sandvik stainless alloys, those are very good. How about an Endura 4 with VG10 steel and some form of stabilized wood and standard backlock? Would people be up for that if it was offered? Or a Delica of the same materials.

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Re: Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

Postby jalcon » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:52 pm

Synthetic wood? Vomit!

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Re: Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:10 pm

jalcon wrote:Synthetic wood? Vomit!

What is wrong with it? It can have the same look of wood with greater durability and no splintering or rotting.

Great for a new line of Spyderco Knife handles. sal can call them the "Woodlands" and they can feature similar blade shapes to what exists but with a range of synthetic wood handle colors and textures. How about polymer wood with Volcano grip texturing?

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Re: Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

Postby Bill1170 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:45 pm

Stabilized wood isn't "synthetic" any more than clear finished wood is. Main difference is that the finish penetrates all the way through the wood for better protection.

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Re: Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:36 am

I have seen quite a few stabilized woods crack with the grain. The stabilizing does not make them the same as g10. It depends a lot on the type of wood and the grain. This is even more likely to happen if the wood is an end cut. People like the grain of the end cut and think that the stabilizing makes the wood bombproof but that isn't true. Stabilized woods can also weigh as much as twice what they did before stabilizing but that too depends on the type of wood. I still like stabilized wood and would like to see more of it but for the reasons listed above I am also in favor of other wood like options including laminated wood like we see on guns and composite woods made from sawdust if they are done right.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

Postby Evil D » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:29 am

bearfacedkiller wrote:I have seen quite a few stabilized woods crack with the grain. The stabilizing does not make them the same as g10. It depends a lot on the type of wood and the grain. This is even more likely to happen if the wood is an end cut. People like the grain of the end cut and think that the stabilizing makes the wood bombproof but that isn't true. Stabilized woods can also weigh as much as twice what they did before stabilizing but that too depends on the type of wood. I still like stabilized wood and would like to see more of it but for the reasons listed above I am also in favor of other wood like options including laminated wood like we see on guns and composite woods made from sawdust if they are done right.

I wonder if wood can be shaved/sliced thin enough to layer it and make a wood micarta?
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Re: Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:42 am

yeah, it is laminated wood. It is heavier than wood just like stabilized wood but it has the alternating grain layers that plywood has so it is much stronger than stabilized wood. It is often used on rifle stocks. It would be more of a ply wood than a micarta.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: Why not make lockbacks with wooden handles?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:50 am

from wikipedia;

"Laminated wood consists of two or more layers of wood, impregnated with glue and attached permanently to each other. The combination of the two pieces of wood, if laid out correctly, results in the separate pieces moderating the effects of changes in temperature and humidity. Modern laminates consist of 1/16 inch (1.6 mm) thick sheets of wood, usually birch, which are impregnated with epoxy, laid with alternating grain directions, and cured at high temperatures and pressures. The resulting composite material is far stronger than the original wood, free from internal defects, and nearly immune to warping from heat or moisture. Typically, each layer of the laminate is dyed before laminating, often with alternating colors, which provides a pattern similar to wood grain when cut into shape, and with bright, contrasting colors, the results can be very striking. The disadvantage of laminate stocks is density, with laminates weighing about 4 to 5 ounces (110 to 140 g) more than walnut for a typical stock.[16]

While wood laminates have been available for many years on the custom market (and, in subdued form, in some military rifles), in 1987 Rutland Plywood, a maker of wood laminates, convinced Sturm, Ruger, Savage Arms, and U.S. Repeating Arms Company (Winchester) to display some laminate stocks on their rifles in a green, brown and black pattern (often called camo). The response was overwhelming, and that marked the beginning of laminated stocks on production rifles."
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?


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