Prediction for the Efficient

[elena86]

I just received the Efficient and I have to say : this one is the best value folder in the Spyderco line and it's going to sell like hot cakes.From what I understand the Efficient is an Ed Schempp design and it shows.Unfortunatly I can't post pictures right now but those who allready purchased one please feel free to do that and share your impressions.I don't see any reason why they shouldn't upgrade the Efficient in the near future.I can only imagine a carbon fiber handle with a CTS-XHP steel one.Good job Spyderco :spyder: :cool:

Marius

[Larry_Mott]

Except with Cf scales and CTS-XHP it wouldn't be a value line knife anymore, and it would compete with the other knives in it's new price class..

[SG89]

I love my Efficient but I love it for what it is: value folder. I would not buy one if it was upgraded.

[Surfingringo]

Personally I'm fine with a steel like 8cr13 on the Chinese made knives. If I want a steel upgrade I want the whole knife upgraded too. The idea of a "souped up" value line folder isn't that appealing to me personally. Who knows though, it might have appeal IF they could do it at a price point that didn't take it out of the value line range like Larry said. I'm with Spydergirl though...enjoy it for what it is and enjoy how you can get such a nice design at that price point. But who know, if the design catches on and enough folks are clamoring for an upgrade, I'm sure Spyderco would respond if the numbers made sense.

[elena86]

A man can dream :)

[laker_cj]

There's already an inline that'd be pretty close to an upgraded Efficient, in the Domino (http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/C172CFTI/839), which pretty much has everything you were looking for in the upgrades, but a slightly different feel in the hand, but has both the CF scales and the CTS-XHP you were wanting as upgrades. Just my $.02 take.

I do agree that it is a great knife, and a great price point. I've sold every one that comes into work, and can't quite keep up with demand that's there.

[Fred Sanford]

I'm with gringo. I have no interest in an upgraded steel value model. I want the entire thing upgraded. I wouldn't want an M4 folder made in China. I want an M4 knife made in the USA.

[Evil D]

I'm with gringo. I have no interest in an upgraded steel value model. I want the entire thing upgraded. I wouldn't want an M4 folder made in China. I want an M4 knife made in the USA.

But if it's the exact same design made with whatever materials you want and made in the USA...?

This is the big brain breaking hurdle people are dealing with in my Tenacious thread. I just don't understand it.

[holeshot]

I have one and I'm very happy with the fit, finish and blade steel. For the price it's a great knife. I'm just waiting for the Polestar now.

[Larry_Mott]

A man can dream :)

Of course! Nothing wrong with that :)
I just see it like if Jaguar should soup up the X type, in a way it would be nice, but it would no longer be a "gateway" model and compete with its own more luxuriuos cousins. (and probably lose, since the wow factor is way higher for a XJ / XF)

[Evil D]

A man can dream :)

Of course! Nothing wrong with that :)
I just see it like if Jaguar should soup up the X type, in a way it would be nice, but it would no longer be a "gateway" model and compete with its own more luxuriuos cousins. (and probably lose, since the wow factor is way higher for a XJ / XF)

I dunno man. They make the Corvette and it's fast and pretty badass, but they also make the ZR-1/Z06 which are just souped up versions of the regular Vette but their price is twice as much or more and so is their performance. They all get the job done but they sure don't have any problems selling the high end models and I doubt they take away from base model sales, no more so than a sprint run takes away from regular model sales. I think a sprint run of any of these value knives would sell just as well as a $150k Corvette would if the materials and quality are there to justify the cost.


What we have here is a platform that can perform really well on different levels. If you put a 200hp 4 cylinder in a Corvette, it would still be a riot to drive, and would probably be a lot cheaper. That's your value knife. That doesn't change the fact that the same platform can be given a 650hp supercharged engine and then you have a car that performs on par or better with Ferrari/Lamborghini, despite "just being a souped up Corvette".

[Fred Sanford]

I'm with gringo. I have no interest in an upgraded steel value model. I want the entire thing upgraded. I wouldn't want an M4 folder made in China. I want an M4 knife made in the USA.

But if it's the exact same design made with whatever materials you want and made in the USA...?

This is the big brain breaking hurdle people are dealing with in my Tenacious thread. I just don't understand it.

For the same reason I fly an American flag out front of my house. For the same reason that I will buy knives costing double or triple of what the ones in China cost if it is made in the USA. For the same reason I buy everything I can made in the USA. The fact that I can't get a USA made cell phone or TV doesn't change that. If I could buy everything made in the USA I would. We cannot get political on this forum or I would site the other reasons I don't care for them.

I don't want a Ford Escort with 400 HP. I wan't 400HP Corvette. For the record I would rather have a 1970's car with 450HP than anything made today with the same HP. It's what I grew up with. I didn't grow up with people having China made knives in their pocket. Old habits my man.

[Evil D]

I'm with gringo. I have no interest in an upgraded steel value model. I want the entire thing upgraded. I wouldn't want an M4 folder made in China. I want an M4 knife made in the USA.

But if it's the exact same design made with whatever materials you want and made in the USA...?

This is the big brain breaking hurdle people are dealing with in my Tenacious thread. I just don't understand it.

For the same reason I fly an American flag out front of my house. For the same reason that I will buy knives costing double or triple of what the ones in China cost if it is made in the USA. For the same reason I buy everything I can made in the USA. The fact that I can't get a USA made cell phone or TV doesn't change that. If I could buy everything made in the USA I would. We cannot get political on this forum or I would site the other reasons I don't care for them.

I don't want a Ford Escort with 400 HP. I wan't 400HP Corvette. For the record I would rather have a 1970's car with 450HP than anything made today with the same HP. It's what I grew up with. I didn't grow up with people having China made knives in their pocket. Old habits my man.

I think you missed my point. If they make the Efficient in USA then it's no longer a Chinese model is it?

[Surfingringo]

I'm with gringo. I have no interest in an upgraded steel value model. I want the entire thing upgraded. I wouldn't want an M4 folder made in China. I want an M4 knife made in the USA.

But if it's the exact same design made with whatever materials you want and made in the USA...?

This is the big brain breaking hurdle people are dealing with in my Tenacious thread. I just don't understand it.

For the same reason I fly an American flag out front of my house. For the same reason that I will buy knives costing double or triple of what the ones in China cost if it is made in the USA. For the same reason I buy everything I can made in the USA. The fact that I can't get a USA made cell phone or TV doesn't change that. If I could buy everything made in the USA I would. We cannot get political on this forum or I would site the other reasons I don't care for them.

I don't want a Ford Escort with 400 HP. I wan't 400HP Corvette. For the record I would rather have a 1970's car with 450HP than anything made today with the same HP. It's what I grew up with. I didn't grow up with people having China made knives in their pocket. Old habits my man.

I think you missed my point. If they make the Efficient in USA then it's no longer a Chinese model is it?

Hey Dave, I didn't understand your post either. Not trying to fuel any kind of argument at all, just trying to understand what you're saying.

[Evil D]

People dislike value folders for whatever reason. Other people want those models with better steel etc, but people object because they either don't want an "expensive value folder" or because it's made in China or whatever. If they did a sprint of any of those knives in Golden with Golden materials, is it still a value folder?

[Surfingringo]

People dislike value folders for whatever reason. Other people want those models with better steel etc, but people object because they either don't want an "expensive value folder" or because it's made in China or whatever. If they did a sprint of any of those knives in Golden with Golden materials, is it still a value folder?

Hey D, I think you are asking a rhetorical question in the interest of making a larger point but I'm still missing the point (I'm probably a little slow) so I'll just answer the question literally. If they did a sprint of the knife in Golden it definitely wouldn't still be a value folder because its the price point that gives it the value folder classification. Price point is determined by cost of materials, level of finish and cost of production (which is largely affected by where it is being produced). Once you start changing one or more of those variables the knife will quickly get priced out of the "value line".

FWIW, I don't dislike the value folders but I can afford the more expensive knives so I typically get those instead. I think that often the people who want upgraded versions of the value folders are folks who prefer and can afford the more expensive offerings but just happen to like a particular design within the value line and want a high end version of that design.

[timlara]

I could be wrong and maybe I'm misunderstanding as well, but I would also think it's not inconsequential to move production of a given model to another factory, particularly in another country, as I would assume all the tooling involved lives with the factory in question, and might be specific to their machines, etc? (Jigs, fixtures, etc.)

So in many ways, I would think moving production of a model could be pretty involved and would be almost as expensive as making a new design. I'm guessing there are also contracts/good faith agreements with the various factories that competitive options / variations won't be given to another factory, as maybe they get incentives / kickbacks for well-received models? Total speculation on my part, but it would kind of make sense as a motivator for factories to do good work.

[Larry_Mott]

I (think i ) understand what people are saying here, but i still feel like, to continue my car analogy giving a Toyota Corolla the Lexus treatment is an exercise in redundancy. A manufacturer strives to have a complete portfolio IMO and having one value line product at budget price and basically the same, only jazzed up at a much more expensive price doesn't make sense *to me*
So, again, with all due respect, i don't need any explaining, i get people's point, i just don't agree :)

[elena86]

My intention was not to fuel such a debate.I just realized that Efficient is a nice design with a big potential for upgrade.If you ask me, they should have decided to implement such a nice design in a premium folder(Taichung made even) from day one.

Marius

[Larry_Mott]

My intention was not to fuel such a debate.I just realized that Efficient is a nice design with a big potential for upgrade.If you ask me, they should have decided to implement such a nice design in a premium folder(Taichung made even) from day one.

Marius

Debating/discussing is what i am here for :) As long as you're prepared to face massive resistance as well as praise for ideas, it is from brainstorming/debating great ideas spring.