Would you buy an AEB-L Military?

[tripscheck'em]

No, I'd want AEB-L in a much thinner blade. like the original Nilakka's zero grind, then we'd see the advantages of its "pure" composition. If all the angles are the same as a s30v military, the s30v will blow it away.

[tripscheck'em]

delete

[Bodog]

:confused: I really don't see what Cashen has to do with anything...

To relate it back to Bluntcut, iirc, long ago Cliff started a thread on HypeFree to discuss the superquench Luong was experimenting with. I believe Cashen essentially moved to censor the discussion due to his strong belief on sticking to standard heat treats. At this point I believe Cliff stopped supporting that forum entirely due to his intolerance for censorship. So, yeah, Cliff has mentioned Cashen from time to time for various reasons, but I don't think that imples they agree on everything or that he is some groupie follower. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't be that interested in AEB-L, etc., with a standard BU heat treat. If that's what I wanted, I would just regrind my Buck Vantage Avid or any other production knife in 12c27, 13c26, or AEB-l.

I'd like to see something done with a protocol suggested by Landes and/or Verhoeven so that people who are interested can evaluate the findings of their work.

I've been lucky to play with some of Luong's blades and they're indeed better than some others. Cliff has thrown the Cashen name around so much it's ridiculous. I don't even go onto hypefree that much at all and I even know that much. Based on the names thrown around it's pretty apparent Cliff basically parrots whatever Cashen, Verhoeven, and Landes say right, wrong, or indifferent.

Just the simple fact that Luong can get 3V harder than anyone could believe (especially guys like Cashen, Landes, and Verhoeven) until independent tests proved at least something different. And that 3V that was harder than anyone could expect? Yeah, it performed well. People tend to think highly of Peters, Keffeler, and Carothers because of what they're doing with 3V as a team. Well, Carothers is the one who tested one of Luong's 3V choppers and is willing to back up Luong in his assertions regarding 3V, at least.

I've been messing around with a 68 RC 10V blade from him. I don't believe many people could realistically expect a 68 RC 10V blade from anyone. And it's held up pretty danged well. Like I've said elsewhere, I have a 15V blade at 70 RC heat treated by him. He says it's good. I haven't put it to use yet. Based on what I've seen from him in 52100, 80crv2, 1095, W2, and now 10V, I'm inclined to believe he knows what he's doing and take him at his word. An 80crv2 (or maybe it was 52100?) blade from Luong performed pretty much the same as S30V from Spyderco in Ankerson's pure wear resistance tests. That's nuts. Seriously, the steels are so different based on composition. S30V should've run circles around a low alloy steel in simple wear resistance tests.

But Luong doesn't do anything close to what industry says he should do. And he's making some damned good blades specifically because he refused to stick to what "industry" says he should do.

I don't know about Luong being censored on hypefree. I can believe it happened just like I believe fucked up stuff happens on all forums. But I'm inclined to believe Cashen may not be at the cutting edge of what's happening in blades yet Cliff has referenced the guy too many times to count. And Cliffs a smart guy. But if he puts so much stock into what Cashen says, maybe Landes and Verhoeven should at least be questioned, too. Especially when Luong is the guy to really kind of shatter what they've all been saying.

I don't believe AEBL is what is claimed by alot of people. I believe it has at least some upsides but it's not what's been pushed any more than Kershaw's and Spyderco's budget line steels can do. I guess it's possible but no one has done any real comparison testing to show one way or another. Shoot, no none has done anything at all to prove or disprove the assertions that it acts like a stainless 52100. It's all basically a couple of guys saying it and no one putting their claims to the test, yet people just keep repeating it like it's the truth.

I raise the BS flag. I say based on practical experience it would probably do well at low angles and high hardness. Anything else is a pure waste. So based on production blade manufacturing considerations, if youre wanting AEBL to perform well you'll be pretty disappointed unlessyou're going to turn your folding knife into a mini-scandi grind that can't perform as well as a real zero ground blade.

[Nate]

Alright man, good luck!

[Zenith]

^ I doubt Cashen, Verhouven or Landes would absolutely condemn anyone trying new experimental ways to heat treat. I do however believe that given their backgrounds they have seen certain claims made and are skeptical without seeing blades under microscope and running tests themselves. Nothing wrong with that as that is basic approach to research.

When it comes to heat treatment I myself am very skeptical on what makers claim as "proprietary heat treatment". As a collector I want to know what I am buying. If a maker does a new experimental heat treat, that is fine, but tell me what you did. I am glad Luong has been so open to what he is doing. It makes people think. Even his work done on AEB-L has been impressive for me.

I do not mind a proper heat treatment done to industry standards as well. Is it always the best? No. Is it a good way to ensure your product is of a certain quality for your buyer. Yes.

I myself am skeptical in my field of work as I have seen claims made by academics without looking at our scientific data. However I do not condemn them for their opinion.

[Zenith]

I raise the BS flag. I say based on practical experience it would probably do well at low angles and high hardness. Anything else is a pure waste. So based on production blade manufacturing considerations, if youre wanting AEBL to perform well you'll be pretty disappointed unlessyou're going to turn your folding knife into a mini-scandi grind that can't perform as well as a real zero ground blade.

If Spyderco ever does an AEB-L knife I will surely convert it into a zero :)

[Nate]

^^source

[steelcity16]

I'm excited we are seeing AEB-L finally in the Urban. Hopefully the sales are good and the reviews are good and people demand this in models like the Military and Native.

[ugaarguy]

Not in any steel at the price the Military goes for with a liner lock. When they switch the Military to a compression lock, then I'll consider one. If AEB-L proves easy to sharpen (hopefully I'll be able to snag one of the new Urban LW folders in AEB-L), and it's as tough as Larrin's data indicates, then I think it would be a great fit for big folders that need to be both tough and easily sharpened in the field. If AEB-L is has those qualities then it would be great in a Micarta handle Shaman, IMO.

[jdw]

As fast as I could pull the cash from my pocket.

[jpm2]

Maybe. I'll decide after trying the urban.

[rabbitanarchy14]

I voted maybe because I would be interested in that steel but a much better size like a para 3(legal reasons) or sage or a little smaller.

[wrdwrght]

With this thread resurrected, I’ve said “Maybe”, pending the AEB-L Urban. And I do want the Cruwear Millie first...

[steelcity16]

The Urban can't come soon enough! Really excited to try this one out!

[wrdwrght]

then I think it would be a great fit for big folders that need to be both tough and easily sharpened in the field. If AEB-L is has those qualities then it would be great in a Micarta handle Shaman, IMO.

I like your thinking.

[Woodpuppy]

Necropost lives!

I am eager to try the urban. The Millie is a yuge knife, and I’ve never held one in person.

[Evil D]

Necropost lives!

I am eager to try the urban. The Millie is a yuge knife, and I’ve never held one in person.

It's the smallest full size knife you'll ever use. That'll make more sense once you carry and use one.

[Tucson Tom]

Nope. I think there are other things that might be more interesting.

[youmakemehole]

If AEB-L proves to be as tough as we'd really want it to be(which I'd say would be at 4v levels or higher) tougher than pretty much all other steels save for 52100, it could make a fantastic stainless SE Military that I don';t think we've had the privilege of having something like that available for a long while now. Even a Combo edge Military sprint in a super tough stainless steel would be cool as heck. Throw some micarta or stab wood/ironwood scales on there and you have a super practical and utilitarian Military which also will make quite the impression.

[Evil D]

If AEB-L proves to be as tough as we'd really want it to be(which I'd say would be at 4v levels or higher) tougher than pretty much all other steels save for 52100, it could make a fantastic stainless SE Military that I don';t think we've had the privilege of having something like that available for a long while now. Even a Combo edge Military sprint in a super tough stainless steel would be cool as heck. Throw some micarta or stab wood/ironwood scales on there and you have a super practical and utilitarian Military which also will make quite the impression.

I would absolutely buy a full SE Military in this steel. No doubt.