Gayle Bradley Advocate First Impressions?

[hoimin]

a) buy what you like
b) don't buy what you don't like

Why is Sal being targeted directly with your ire? This is a custom collaboration that is faithful to the maker's design intent, accounting for production contraints. There is no personal vendetta against non-FFG. The grind is chosen to suit the designer's intended use and this appears to be a utilitarian blade for everyday carry.

[Bodog]

This is all so subjective regarding the action of this knife. I'll have to get my hands on one before I even think about buying one. There are quite a few negatives for me........ for one.... Flat ground ? Come on guys..... **** it can we get back to hollow and saber grinds. This is the primary reason why I have slowed down to almost a complete halt and do not purchase new Spydercos. Flat ground, I'm really started to be insulted by the fact that everything has been switched to flat grind or is new with flat grind blade geometry. Unless the rest of you are sheep, there must be some others out there who feel the same. This new Advocate had better offer something special or I'll pass like I have with many others. I'm going to try and be open minded.

I personally can't stand hollow grinds on working knives, hollow grinds are meant for shallow cutting alone, like straight razors. Saber grinds in big chopping knives or smaller fixed blade knives that are going to be abused are ok depending on overall design. For folding knives or fixed bladed knives meant for cutting and cutting alone I don't believe there's much that beats a thin full or high flat grind. This is all just my opinion and yours is different. That's cool.

I'm glad there are people out there who appreciate flat ground blades, they have their place but I don't believe that every single Spyderco knife that is currently being offered needs to be flat ground. There are too many flat ground offerings from Spyderco. Sal has forsaken the people like me, who throughout the years have repeatedly and loyally collected Spyderco and made Spyderco successful. I've been collecting knives since I was 10 years old. My first experience with a Spyderco when I was in my last year of high school, 1983, was a C01 and it was not flat ground. The Delica and Endura were not flat ground. The most successful offerings historically were not flat ground blades. Flat ground has its useful place in the knife world but it should not be the spotlight and should never be accepted as top shelf. I don't care if its faster at snag free cutting through newspaper, that's great for youtube videos but its not what true collectors want. It's true that new collectors will buy almost anything, they don't understand what they are missing if they don't know what it is that they are missing. Knives are supposed to inspire and be aesthetically pleasing like artwork. Flat ground knives are utilitarian and quite boring without any true character. Flats are for the most part, accepted simply because that is all that is being offered and they are cheaper to produce. The sheep will trot along with the flock, the wolves will standby watching and waiting. If you only get to chose vanilla flavor after you've been used to being able to chose all 64 flavors, it might make you feel betrayed, frustrated, insulted and maybe disgusted. Is it all about the money or is it all about making great knives ??? I want to stay loyal to Spyderco but **** it Sal you're making it almost impossible.

So you say you're a collector. You say true collectors want hollow and saber ground knives. You say full flat grinds offer only utility and/or ease of cutting through newspaper. You say that people who find the utility of flat ground blades preferable over the aesthetics of hollow or saber ground blades somehow less experienced/more ignorant. And that you want more collection pieces, not because you value their utility, but rather you value their looks.

I'm sorry but that seems like it's pretty much the opposite of what spyderco and especially Sal has ever said about their knives. If they can get a truly functional knife to look pleasing, they'll try, but I don't think Sal has ever said he'll sacrifice utility for looks.

What I personally find pleasing about spyderco is that they're NOT willing to sacrifice function for looks. Some knives may be better for saber grinds, some for hollow, and some for full flat. I think Spyderco has a lot of all of them being offered. Personally I believe the Nirvana should've been a high, thin flat grind rather than a fairly thick low saber grind. But that's only my opinion and it's not what happened so I didn't buy it. And that option is available to us all regarding any knife in question.

[Mic1]

[quote="zeroed4x"

I'm glad there are people out there who appreciate flat ground blades, they have their place but I don't believe that every single Spyderco knife that is currently being offered needs to be flat ground. There are too many flat ground offerings from Spyderco. Sal has forsaken the people like me, who throughout the years have repeatedly and loyally collected Spyderco and made Spyderco successful. I've been collecting knives since I was 10 years old. My first experience with a Spyderco when I was in my last year of high school, 1983, was a C01 and it was not flat ground. The Delica and Endura were not flat ground. The most successful offerings historically were not flat ground blades. Flat ground has its useful place in the knife world but it should not be the spotlight and should never be accepted as top shelf. I don't care if its faster at snag free cutting through newspaper, that's great for youtube videos but its not what true collectors want. It's true that new collectors will buy almost anything, they don't understand what they are missing if they don't know what it is that they are missing. Knives are supposed to inspire and be aesthetically pleasing like artwork. Flat ground knives are utilitarian and quite boring without any true character. Flats are for the most part, accepted simply because that is all that is being offered and they are cheaper to produce. The sheep will trot along with the flock, the wolves will standby watching and waiting. If you only get to chose vanilla flavor after you've been used to being able to chose all 64 flavors, it might make you feel betrayed, frustrated, insulted and maybe disgusted. Is it all about the money or is it all about making great knives ??? I want to stay loyal to Spyderco but **** it Sal you're making it almost impossible.

You are way off base here. I think you are just feeling the need to be contrary or rude. As I said before there are over 50 knives in the current catalog like the endura and delica with saber and hollow grinds. And most of the new high end collectible ones. And guess what it is about money it's a Business not a charity it needs to make money or it ceases to exist. Spyderco has offerings for everyone. In mine and many others opinion they make great knives with great designs, a wide variety of materials and steels, different locks etc. So get a grip on yourself and look at the new 2017 catalog. If you don't like anything there are 10 other companies to choose from. I would also switch to Decaf for your health

[Mic1]

So you say you're a collector. You say true collectors want hollow and saber ground knives. You say full flat grinds offer only utility and/or ease of cutting through newspaper. You say that people who find the utility of flat ground blades preferable over the aesthetics of hollow or saber ground blades somehow less experienced/more ignorant. And that you want more collection pieces, not because you value their utility, but rather you value their looks.

I'm sorry but that seems like it's pretty much the opposite of what spyderco and especially Sal has ever said about their knives. If they can get a truly functional knife to look pleasing, they'll try, but I don't think Sal has ever said he'll sacrifice utility for looks.

What I personally find pleasing about spyderco is that they're NOT willing to sacrifice function for looks. Some knives may be better for saber grinds, some for hollow, and some for full flat. I think Spyderco has a lot of all of them being offered. Personally I believe the Nirvana should've been a high, thin flat grind rather than a fairly thick low saber grind. But that's only my opinion and it's not what happened so I didn't buy it. And that option is available to us all regarding any knife in question.

Amen

[zeroed4x]

a) buy what you like
b) don't buy what you don't like

Obviously

[quote="hoimin"
Why is Sal being targeted directly with your ire? This is a custom collaboration that is faithful to the maker's design intent, accounting for production contraints. There is no personal vendetta against non-FFG. The grind is chosen to suit the designer's intended use and this appears to be a utilitarian blade for everyday carry.[/quote]

Don't shoot the messenger.....
Sal is being targeted, we all love and truly appreciate Sal.
Who founded and owns Spyderco???...... let think about this for a sec..... oh yea.... Sal Glesser.
Who needs to hear the good, the bad, the ugly...... well that would be......... Sal.
I'm sure that Sal appreciates honesty and truthful opinions.
Gayle's other collaborations, one and two had pleasing blade geometry, the Advocate in my opinion is more true to Gayle's own production knives.
The Advocate is different and may very well be completely awesome. My knee jerk reaction to seeing more flat ground blades is nothing more than honest but may very well be somewhat premature in this case.
My comments where not exclusively targeted at only the Advocate, it was targeted at Sal regarding the entire line of Spyderco offerings.
I'm not the only one who feels this way but, I am one who will tell you straight up to your face 100% of the time, exactly how it is.
I'm sure that you're all welcome to speak openly and truthfully, I'm sure that Sal would want it that way, its just how good business has historically been done.

[vilePossum]

Wasn't this thread about the advocate?
I will hold of anyways after some reports from longer use come in.

[zeroed4x]

So you say you're a collector. You say true collectors want hollow and saber ground knives. You say full flat grinds offer only utility and/or ease of cutting through newspaper. You say that people who find the utility of flat ground blades preferable over the aesthetics of hollow or saber ground blades somehow less experienced/more ignorant. And that you want more collection pieces, not because you value their utility, but rather you value their looks.

I'm sorry but that seems like it's pretty much the opposite of what spyderco and especially Sal has ever said about their knives. If they can get a truly functional knife to look pleasing, they'll try, but I don't think Sal has ever said he'll sacrifice utility for looks.

What I personally find pleasing about spyderco is that they're NOT willing to sacrifice function for looks. Some knives may be better for saber grinds, some for hollow, and some for full flat. I think Spyderco has a lot of all of them being offered. Personally I believe the Nirvana should've been a high, thin flat grind rather than a fairly thick low saber grind. But that's only my opinion and it's not what happened so I didn't buy it. And that option is available to us all regarding any knife in question.

Amen

Don't attempt to color my opinion with your own words and not my own, thank you. I have not stated much of what you said in your reply. Collectors do want flat ground blades, some of us do not want "only" or " exclusively" flat ground blades, we want variety and that means all types of geometry, sizes and combinations of materials and sizes. Yes, I am a collector so don't even attempt to disparage me regarding that absolute fact. You stated "I personally find pleasing about spyderco is that they're NOT willing to sacrifice function for looks" You're correct but they've also never sacrificed looks for function. Think about it.
You may or may not have been paying attention or maybe you're new to Spyderco knives. I respect your opinion, I do but LOL... Sorry to say, (seriously no offense meant) but you also talk more ______ than a Chinese radio while attempting to defend flat ground blades.( Don't be offended we are all here to share and have some fun) I've been here since the inception, the ground floor, from the beginning and I know how things have evolved with regards to the knives, their aesthetics, philosophy of use, etc etc. Knives are meant to be artistic and its 100% obvious they have to function, that's a "no brain'er". You'll never win that discussion and for you to state otherwise could very well be that you're new or just have some inherent urge to defend Sal's decision to flood the product line with nothing but flats. It's o.k., you're entitled to your opinion. You're opinion will not sway my own in the least and that is also o.k., we all like what we like so that is fully respected. If all I ever wanted utilitarian flat ground knives, I would never have started collecting Spyderco knives, I could have the largest collection of box cutters..... The bottom line is Sal has always made high quality, functional, artistic and unique knives. I believe that the company could possibly have lost site of what made them world famous and so highly successful. This success was not founded on flat ground blades or with cheap steel. Spyderco continues to make a superior and competitive product but the aesthetics have undeniably stagnated with the over abundance of flat ground geometry. If you're totally satisfied with only flat ground blades, great, good for you, you've got nothing to worry about. For some of us, we want more, we want classic options and new options. I have always preferred to buy Spyderco, I simply do not want every knife I buy to be flat ground..... understand ?

[zeroed4x]

[quote="zeroed4x"

I'm glad there are people out there who appreciate flat ground blades, they have their place but I don't believe that every single Spyderco knife that is currently being offered needs to be flat ground. There are too many flat ground offerings from Spyderco. Sal has forsaken the people like me, who throughout the years have repeatedly and loyally collected Spyderco and made Spyderco successful. I've been collecting knives since I was 10 years old. My first experience with a Spyderco when I was in my last year of high school, 1983, was a C01 and it was not flat ground. The Delica and Endura were not flat ground. The most successful offerings historically were not flat ground blades. Flat ground has its useful place in the knife world but it should not be the spotlight and should never be accepted as top shelf. I don't care if its faster at snag free cutting through newspaper, that's great for youtube videos but its not what true collectors want. It's true that new collectors will buy almost anything, they don't understand what they are missing if they don't know what it is that they are missing. Knives are supposed to inspire and be aesthetically pleasing like artwork. Flat ground knives are utilitarian and quite boring without any true character. Flats are for the most part, accepted simply because that is all that is being offered and they are cheaper to produce. The sheep will trot along with the flock, the wolves will standby watching and waiting. If you only get to chose vanilla flavor after you've been used to being able to chose all 64 flavors, it might make you feel betrayed, frustrated, insulted and maybe disgusted. Is it all about the money or is it all about making great knives ??? I want to stay loyal to Spyderco but **** it Sal you're making it almost impossible.

You are way off base here. I think you are just feeling the need to be contrary or rude. As I said before there are over 50 knives in the current catalog like the endura and delica with saber and hollow grinds. And most of the new high end collectible ones. And guess what it is about money it's a Business not a charity it needs to make money or it ceases to exist. Spyderco has offerings for everyone. In mine and many others opinion they make great knives with great designs, a wide variety of materials and steels, different locks etc. So get a grip on yourself and look at the new 2017 catalog. If you don't like anything there are 10 other companies to choose from. I would also switch to Decaf for your health

Well then the world according to you is perfect for all of us. No I'm not being contrary or rude. I'm not way off base, I'm 100% on point. You're inflammatory remarks are really unnecessary but then again, I'd be a heretic for stating anything that might be regarded as differing from the normal sheep response, "I love Spyderco and I love and must have all of their knives" I've got a gun safe full of Delica's and Enduras from years ago, I don't need nor do I want more of them.

Show me a Military, PM2, Manix2, Manix2 XL, Native, Mantra, Dice, Domino, Caly, or a Cat that is Hollow or Saber ground. Any of these knives I've mentioned would be better for some of us if offered with something other than flat grind. I like flat grind blades, I have many of them. I want more of the main stream offerings from Spyderco to be offered in the more conventional and classic blade geometry. If all you like is vanilla, eat it and love it, some of us want other flavors and you can live with that because its not going to change. Now go make me a taco.

[Bodog]

So you say you're a collector. You say true collectors want hollow and saber ground knives. You say full flat grinds offer only utility and/or ease of cutting through newspaper. You say that people who find the utility of flat ground blades preferable over the aesthetics of hollow or saber ground blades somehow less experienced/more ignorant. And that you want more collection pieces, not because you value their utility, but rather you value their looks.

I'm sorry but that seems like it's pretty much the opposite of what spyderco and especially Sal has ever said about their knives. If they can get a truly functional knife to look pleasing, they'll try, but I don't think Sal has ever said he'll sacrifice utility for looks.

What I personally find pleasing about spyderco is that they're NOT willing to sacrifice function for looks. Some knives may be better for saber grinds, some for hollow, and some for full flat. I think Spyderco has a lot of all of them being offered. Personally I believe the Nirvana should've been a high, thin flat grind rather than a fairly thick low saber grind. But that's only my opinion and it's not what happened so I didn't buy it. And that option is available to us all regarding any knife in question.

Amen

Don't attempt to color my opinion with your own words and not my own, thank you. I have not stated much of what you said in your reply. Collectors do want flat ground blades, some of us do not want "only" or " exclusively" flat ground blades, we want variety and that means all types of geometry, sizes and combinations of materials and sizes. Yes, I am a collector so don't even attempt to disparage me regarding that absolute fact. You stated "I personally find pleasing about spyderco is that they're NOT willing to sacrifice function for looks" You're correct but they've also never sacrificed looks for function. Think about it.
You may or may not have been paying attention or maybe you're new to Spyderco knives. I respect your opinion, I do but LOL... Sorry to say, (seriously no offense meant) but you also talk more ______ than a Chinese radio while attempting to defend flat ground blades.( Don't be offended we are all here to share and have some fun) I've been here since the inception, the ground floor, from the beginning and I know how things have evolved with regards to the knives, their aesthetics, philosophy of use, etc etc. Knives are meant to be artistic and its 100% obvious they have to function, that's a "no brain'er". You'll never win that discussion and for you to state otherwise could very well be that you're new or just have some inherent urge to defend Sal's decision to flood the product line with nothing but flats. It's o.k., you're entitled to your opinion. You're opinion will not sway my own in the least and that is also o.k., we all like what we like so that is fully respected. If all I ever wanted utilitarian flat ground knives, I would never have started collecting Spyderco knives, I could have the largest collection of box cutters..... The bottom line is Sal has always made high quality, functional, artistic and unique knives. I believe that the company could possibly have lost site of what made them world famous and so highly successful. This success was not founded on flat ground blades or with cheap steel. Spyderco continues to make a superior and competitive product but the aesthetics have undeniably stagnated with the over abundance of flat ground geometry. If you're totally satisfied with only flat ground blades, great, good for you, you've got nothing to worry about. For some of us, we want more, we want classic options and new options. I have always preferred to buy Spyderco, I simply do not want every knife I buy to be flat ground..... understand ?

I'd argue that maybe spyderco earned a base with the likes of the Endura, police, and delica. They became really popular because of the military and pm2. Because they work. Not because they're simply pretty. Though what I may find pleasing to my eye is different than you. I look and say, man, that looks like a knife that's perfect for this job or that job. I don't look and say, man, that knife has a full flat grind and I think I as a collector should have something different that doesn't work as well because I have drawers and drawers full of knives and I just want more and different collection pieces.

If Sal had the mindset to make knives based on looks spyderco may never have grown to what it is now. And again, they're not offering only flat ground knives. They have a LOT that are saber ground. Just because they offer a mix and in that mix are knives that don't suit your purposes doesn't mean spyderco is off the mark.

I'd actually contend that when spyderco goes for looks alone they often fail to sell many of that particular offering.

Look at the rubicon. Good on paper with a bunch of boxes checked. But those boxes checked were more about looks and simple box checking than sticking with what works. People were unhappy with the saber hollow grind, people were unhappy with the backspacer, people were unhappy with the stubby, fat blade, and the knife kind of bombed.

Look at the nirvana. Outstanding on paper but many people were upset with the blade geometry, saber grind, and the blade finish. Both were meant to look good. And they did. But people didn't rave about them. Because they didn't work as well as they could have.

Look at the mantra. For all intents it's a juiced up super delica. But it didn't work as well as it should have because unnecessary things were thrown into the mix and it wound up not working as well as it could have.

I mean this with all sincerity. The average spyderco buyer talks about wanting a knife to work as well as it can. If other boxes can be checked that make it look nice without detracting from the basic function, awesome. When spyderco strays from that and adds in features that don't serve a purpose or if they add some design characteristic that doesn't really make sense or if it's just obvious that spyderco is simply trying to follow the knife pack, the knives don't sell very well.

I could be wrong but the vast majority of knives I hear spyderco fans talking about have liner locks, back locks, compression locks, or ball bearing locks. A few have frame locks. Most have full flat grinds even if previously presented with another type of grind. Most have washers though some have bearings. A lot of embellishment usually only serves to cause shoulder shrugging. Other companies can use superficial and superfluous designs and features. Spyderco fans, from what I've seen, usually want and like spyderco to stick to the basics and do the basics better than everyone else and keep the stupid artistic stuff for art's sake away.

[Mic1]

Zero listen dude 50 count them 50 models for you to chose from. a lot of them are new and different as well as old models. If you don't like those choices move on.

[zeroed4x]

I'd argue that maybe spyderco earned a base with the likes of the Endura, police, and delica. They became really popular because of the military and pm2. Because they work. Not because they're simply pretty. Though what I may find pleasing to my eye is different than you. I look and say, man, that looks like a knife that's perfect for this job or that job. I don't look and say, man, that knife has a full flat grind and I think I as a collector should have something different that doesn't work as well because I have drawers and drawers full of knives and I just want more and different collection pieces.

If Sal had the mindset to make knives based on looks spyderco may never have grown to what it is now. And again, they're not offering only flat ground knives. They have a LOT that are saber ground. Just because they offer a mix and in that mix are knives that don't suit your purposes doesn't mean spyderco is off the mark.

I'd actually contend that when spyderco goes for looks alone they often fail to sell many of that particular offering.

Look at the rubicon. Good on paper with a bunch of boxes checked. But those boxes checked were more about looks and simple box checking than sticking with what works. People were unhappy with the saber hollow grind, people were unhappy with the backspacer, people were unhappy with the stubby, fat blade, and the knife kind of bombed.

Look at the nirvana. Outstanding on paper but many people were upset with the blade geometry, saber grind, and the blade finish. Both were meant to look good. And they did. But people didn't rave about them. Because they didn't work as well as they could have.

Look at the mantra. For all intents it's a juiced up super delica. But it didn't work as well as it should have because unnecessary things were thrown into the mix and it wound up not working as well as it could have.

I mean this with all sincerity. The average spyderco buyer talks about wanting a knife to work as well as it can. If other boxes can be checked that make it look nice without detracting from the basic function, awesome. When spyderco strays from that and adds in features that don't serve a purpose or if they add some design characteristic that doesn't really make sense or if it's just obvious that spyderco is simply trying to follow the knife pack, the knives don't sell very well.

I could be wrong but the vast majority of knives I hear spyderco fans talking about have liner locks, back locks, compression locks, or ball bearing locks. A few have frame locks. Most have full flat grinds even if previously presented with another type of grind. Most have washers though some have bearings. A lot of embellishment usually only serves to cause shoulder shrugging. Other companies can use superficial and superfluous designs and features. Spyderco fans, from what I've seen, usually want and like spyderco to stick to the basics and do the basics better than everyone else and keep the stupid artistic stuff for art's sake away.

I think you're missing the point when I state that a knife must be artistic. I'm not saying a knife must be covered in gold inlay, elaborate engraving, or embellished with bling. I am saying that the design needs to be eye appealing, there is a difference and its my mistake for not providing clarification.
Sometimes the difference with a knife having some "pop" or eye appeal and just rather plain can be from simple design parameters like the blade geometry. Here's an example. ( Top of Pic )The Native CP41through its original versions from the BRK, Gin1, and a few others had the saber grind which gave a very nice look to it. It's blade was interesting and it was appreciated. The current version ( Bottom of Pic ) now has g10 scales, better steel, no more pinned construction now with torx screws and has many improvements that are all extremely welcomed and great but it has lost the blade geometry of the saber grind in favor of flat. This distracts from all of the improvements, they change to flat grind made it just another leaf blade. This is just an example of a subtle difference that makes the term artistic relevant when discussing a knife.

[zeroed4x]

Zero listen dude 50 count them 50 models for you to chose from. a lot of them are new and different as well as old models. If you don't like those choices move on.

You just follow along Jr., don't get in the way. You're not relevant or constructive to this conversation at this point so maybe you need to move along.
I do know exactly how many flat versus other geometries are being offered. If you back track and keep up with this conversation you might know what we are talking about and you would be less likely to make mindless antagonizing replies.

[stevekolt]

To the original topic, I've had mine for a while now, and must say that FOR ME, it is just about ideal. Smooth opening, rock solid lock up, and I love the blade shape. Nice and slender in the pocket, and comfortable in my hand. The only thing that is yet to be determined, is the M4 steel. I've never had a blade in this steel before, so time will tell. For now, it is definitely one of my favorite designs, and has become my main EDC.

[Airlsee]

Zero listen dude 50 count them 50 models for you to chose from. a lot of them are new and different as well as old models. If you don't like those choices move on.

You just follow along Jr., don't get in the way. You're not relevant or constructive to this conversation at this point so maybe you need to move along.
I do know exactly how many flat versus other geometries are being offered. If you back track and keep up with this conversation you might know what we are talking about and you would be less likely to make mindless antagonizing replies.

Honestly, I would suggest that you start a thread to rail against/compare FFG vs other blade grinds. It is much more likely to be seen and many more opinions will be offered rather than just hijacking this thread about the Advocate.

As for mine, I love it and it definitely cuts through cardboard with less resistance than the GB1 when both were given 17dps edges.

[Mic1]

Zero listen dude 50 count them 50 models for you to chose from. a lot of them are new and different as well as old models. If you don't like those choices move on.

You just follow along Jr., don't get in the way. You're not relevant or constructive to this conversation at this point so maybe you need to move along.
I do know exactly how many flat versus other geometries are being offered. If you back track and keep up with this conversation you might know what we are talking about and you would be less likely to make mindless antagonizing replies.

I shall now ignore you. But rant on like the angry pathetic old crack pot nutter that you are. Pissed at the world for the injustice of it all. If only everyone saw it your way. :rolleyes:

[Mic1]

According to Gayle Bradley the scales are not as contoured as his which has a lot to do with time and cost than anything else. It had a little thicker grind than the custom and the overstop/ steel lock insert. But all and all a great copy of the original design. O ya obviously the spyderco hole as well. He Rockwell tested the ones he received and said they were spot on. He checks the Rockwell on all of his models and says Taiwan Is always spot on.

[zeroed4x]

To the original topic, I've had mine for a while now, and must say that FOR ME, it is just about ideal. Smooth opening, rock solid lock up, and I love the blade shape. Nice and slender in the pocket, and comfortable in my hand. The only thing that is yet to be determined, is the M4 steel. I've never had a blade in this steel before, so time will tell. For now, it is definitely one of my favorite designs, and has become my main EDC.

I have had quite a few knives made from various types of high carbon steel and tool steels like M4, D2, 01 and 02. I've also made screw drivers, punches and other tools with it. All of my bush craft knives are high carbon and a few custom builds. My Bradley Folder 2 is M4. M4 happens to be a very good high speed tool steel with a high moly content, hence the name "M4" The addition of molybdenum in the steel alloy makes for a harder steel while less brittle when hardened to a higher level. It is less prone to stress fractures. It also adds to the corrosion resistance, not to the same level as chromium but it contributes none the less. Bottom line is that its slightly higher on the Rockwell scale. All carbon steels have to be cared for. If you cut something that is acidic, they will tarnish. Sometimes the tarnish will show up as a few spots, other times its a whole section of blade that turns gray, brown or even black. If you use them, you must take care of them, oil them, keep them oiled and wipe them down well after use. Many of the bush crafters out there are proud to show you their tarnished blades as it shows that it gets used and doesn't stay permanently in the sheath on their belt.

[zeroed4x]

According to Gayle Bradley the scales are not as contoured as his which has a lot to do with time and cost than anything else. It had a little thicker grind than the custom and the overstop/ steel lock insert. But all and all a great copy of the original design. O ya obviously the spyderco hole as well. He Rockwell tested the ones he received and said they were spot on. He checks the Rockwell on all of his models and says Taiwan Is always spot on.

I'm anxious to get my hands on one to evaluate it. Hopefully is will be all that has been promoted and promised.

[toxophilus]

Happy New Year All!

I'm following a post in one of the fb Spyderco fan groups; someone had posted a picture of the galling that is happening on the scales behind the washers; the action on mine was not smooth when I received it, I worked it a few times when I first got it and then put it aside and went onto other projects.

Today I took it apart and noticed the beginning of some galling on the scales (same their photos), I took some RIG +P Stainless steel lube and coated the scales where this was happening as well as some in the bearings and the pivot area. This product is known to minimize galling of metal on metal and I've used it on my ordinance for years.

Happy to report the Advocate now fires like a rocket when depressing the flipper tab and is a heck of a lot smoother when deploying the blade manually; it still has a strong detent but I prefer it that way. I did not adjust the frame lock to lessen the pressure when closing the blade as there is zero lock stick.

Below is an example of the galling on their scales (mine was just beginning) and an image of the RIG product used.

[stevekolt]

To the original topic, I've had mine for a while now, and must say that FOR ME, it is just about ideal. Smooth opening, rock solid lock up, and I love the blade shape. Nice and slender in the pocket, and comfortable in my hand. The only thing that is yet to be determined, is the M4 steel. I've never had a blade in this steel before, so time will tell. For now, it is definitely one of my favorite designs, and has become my main EDC.

I have had quite a few knives made from various types of high carbon steel and tool steels like M4, D2, 01 and 02. I've also made screw drivers, punches and other tools with it. All of my bush craft knives are high carbon and a few custom builds. My Bradley Folder 2 is M4. M4 happens to be a very good high speed tool steel with a high moly content, hence the name "M4" The addition of molybdenum in the steel alloy makes for a harder steel while less brittle when hardened to a higher level. It is less prone to stress fractures. It also adds to the corrosion resistance, not to the same level as chromium but it contributes none the less. Bottom line is that its slightly higher on the Rockwell scale. All carbon steels have to be cared for. If you cut something that is acidic, they will tarnish. Sometimes the tarnish will show up as a few spots, other times its a whole section of blade that turns gray, brown or even black. If you use them, you must take care of them, oil them, keep them oiled and wipe them down well after use. Many of the bush crafters out there are proud to show you their tarnished blades as it shows that it gets used and doesn't stay permanently in the sheath on their belt.

Thank you Z!