Official Petition for a Premium Tenacious

[Scottie3000]

It wouldn't do anything for me. To me the draw to the Tenacious is a pretty good knife for a cheap price to use in times where your great but expensive knife would probably get damaged. There are lots of other models that fill the same role that re already more premium IMO.

[Leadsled]

There is overlap between the Value folders and the Byrd line of knives. The Raven 2 jumped the entire Value line, IMHO. It even flaunts Mr. Glesser's personal mark.
Given that most of the knives between the two lines share the same materials, I prefer the designs of the Byrd line. I like finger choils. Also the price of most of the knives is significantly lower than the Value line. This shows the power and prestige of the Round Hole versus the Comet shaped hole.

One can also argue that the Cara Cara 2 and Meadowlark 2 compete against the Endura and Delica, somewhat. Heresy!

The PM2 and Raven 2 are my favorite, currently. I am on a list for the Para 3.

My wish, and I think others would agree, is that the Raven 2 and the Crow 2 get the premium steel and different color scale treatment.

[Larry_Mott]

There is overlap between the Value folders and the Byrd line of knives. The Raven 2 jumped the entire Value line, IMHO. It even flaunts Mr. Glesser's personal mark.
Given that most of the knives between the two lines share the same materials, I prefer the designs of the Byrd line. I like finger choils. Also the price of most of the knives is significantly lower than the Value line. This shows the power and prestige of the Round Hole versus the Comet shaped hole.

One can also argue that the Cara Cara 2 and Meadowlark 2 compete against the Endura and Delica, somewhat. Heresy!

The PM2 and Raven 2 are my favorite, currently. I am on a list for the Para 3.

My wish, and I think others would agree, is that the Raven 2 and the Crow 2 get the premium steel and different color scale treatment.

Second that!
Also want to add that in my earlier posts i may seem against the whole idea of a premium Tenacious. Of course, if there's a demans for it, by all means add it to the lineup. I just mean that personally i wouldn't buy a Fiat Punto with full leather upholstery and tweaked engine..

[Evil D]

I just mean that personally i wouldn't buy a Fiat Punto with full leather upholstery and tweaked engine..

This reminds me of the old riddle about replacing pieces of a wooden boat, after you replace each piece individually is it the same boat or a completely different boat?

If a Tenacious is made in Golden, with the exact same materials as a Para 2, by the same machines and hands as a Para 2, does it continue to be a value folder, and when the price increases will people go on and on about how it's an over priced value knife despite the fact that everything about it is exactly the same as a Para 2?

This is the part that blows my mind about this thread. It seems that many people can't imagine the Tenacious being the Para's equal no matter what changes are made. Sal himself even commented about the effort that went into designing it, so it doesn't lack refinement or pedigree, so what is it that makes people unable to see this knife as anything but a value model? This topic has honestly moved way past wanting the knife for me and I'm more curious now about how people perceive things like this lol. All the while I would bet every knife I own that if what I'm talking about was in the new catalog as a new Golden model with a different name, people would be flipping over it.

If you asked people 2 years ago if they'd buy a titanium frame lock flipper Delica with a leaf blade, I bet a riot would have ensued over the idea of giving a Delica a flipper and frame lock, but that's essentially what we have with the Mantra and it seems to be a grand slam success. People would have made the same arrangements about price increase and how perfect the Delica is at the current price and how unnecessary those changes are, but here we are seeing most people singing the praises of the Mantra.

[Leadsled]

What would happen if the PM2 was given a BD1 blade, a Comet hole, and made in China? If it was the same quality as the Raven 2, I would never look back. Or A BD1 lightweight PM2 made in Golden? I would be all over that also. To me, it's more about the design than materials. I don't need a super steel or micarta for 99.99% of what I use a knife for.

Also I think some designs are so good, they should be called up to the big leagues. The Raven 2 and Cara Cara 2 G10 could be given better steels and a Round Hole. I think I would spend the extra for a premium model of those designs. The Tenacious, no matter what, does nothing for me.

[anagarika]

It is possible that people who perhaps don't want change in Delica are not the same people as the one buying & raving about Mantra. It is also possible there are overlaps, some people enjoy both.

:confused:

[Evil D]

It is possible that people who perhaps don't want change in Delica are not the same people as the one buying & raving about Mantra. It is also possible there are overlaps, some people enjoy both.

:confused:

Part of my assumptions are based on previous topics we've had about changing the Delica, for example people have asked for a Delica with a choil, with different locks, etc and there are always those purists who are against any changes to the design. I'm sure there are still plenty of people who prefer the Delica over the Mantra but it's still a hit either way.

[Evil D]

What would happen if the PM2 was given a BD1 blade, a Comet hole, and made in China? If it was the same quality as the Raven 2, I would never look back. Or A BD1 lightweight PM2 made in Golden? I would be all over that also. To me, it's more about the design than materials. I don't need a super steel or micarta for 99.99% of what I use a knife for.

Also I think some designs are so good, they should be called up to the big leagues. The Raven 2 and Cara Cara 2 G10 could be given better steels and a Round Hole. I think I would spend the extra for a premium model of those designs. The Tenacious, no matter what, does nothing for me.

Seems like going in the other direction, making cheaper/less expensive versions of expensive things is far more successful than making expensive versions of less expensive things. It seems to me what should matter the most is what materials are used but what do I know. Design definitely matters but it's also very subjective.

[Leadsled]

Of course materials matter. Given that the "lowest" that Spyderco is willing to go is 8Cr13MoV, that is good enough for most of what I will do with a folding pocket knife. Therefore, the design, using the materials that Spyderco does, is more important to me. I'm not talking just about the aesthetic, but also ergonomic.

The Tenacious does not fit the design I find pleasing to the eye or hand. My favorite Spyderco design is the PM2. Going "down" in materials would still be more than enough for my needs.

The Delica also does nothing for me. I like the Meadowlark 2 G-10. I have a SpyderEdge Endura 3. I want an all black SpyderEdge Pacific Salt because of the larger Hole and H1. I prefer those over the Endura 4 because of the handle construction and pocket clip.

Everything is subjective. That's why Spyderco has 100+ pages of knives in their catalog.

[Scottie3000]

I was thinking today, that I actually want a cheaper Tenacious. I want the same blade with the most inexpensive handle material. I don't know what that is, FRN, aluminum?

Target price - $29 IRL

[Larry_Mott]

I was thinking today, that I actually want a cheaper Tenacious. I want the same blade with the most inexpensive handle material. I don't know what that is, FRN, aluminum?

Target price - $29 IRL

Guano resin? :D

[sal]

You might keep a lookout for the new Polestar and Alcyone. The first version comes out in BD1. Eric already has plans for more exotic steels. The maker is the same as the Raven2 and he has the proper heat treat oven to handle exotic steels.

sal

[Sharp Guy]

You might keep a lookout for the new Polestar and Alcyone. The first version comes out in BD1. Eric already has plans for more exotic steels. The maker is the same as the Raven2 and he has the proper heat treat oven to handle exotic steels.

sal

I keep seeing you mention this Alcyone. I don't see it in the new catalog or website. Getting curious what it looks like.

[mrtodd777]

You might keep a lookout for the new Polestar and Alcyone. The first version comes out in BD1. Eric already has plans for more exotic steels. The maker is the same as the Raven2 and he has the proper heat treat oven to handle exotic steels.

sal

I keep seeing you mention this Alcyone. I don't see it in the new catalog or website. Getting curious what it looks like.

I was just about to ask the same thing..

[Leadsled]

Only thing I find with that name is a Subaru...

[araneae]

You might keep a lookout for the new Polestar and Alcyone. The first version comes out in BD1. Eric already has plans for more exotic steels. The maker is the same as the Raven2 and he has the proper heat treat oven to handle exotic steels.

sal

Keeps teasing us with the Alcyone... Mini Polestar or different altogether? Polestar is interesting as it looks like a hybrid version of the Raven and Tenacious. Maybe the Alcyone is the Persistence to the Polestar?

[sal]

Hi Araneae,

Didn't think anyone noticed. :cool:

The Alcyone is a 2-3/4" blade Polestar. The Polestar is a Raven 2 without a finger-choil. and some minor adjustments.

sal

[Kaiser Bobby]

Those who want an "upgraded" knife from the value series feel that way because of the passion for the design, not necessarily looking for a better "value" knife.
If part of the issue is China, why not make a sprint run in the USA? I think those who really want the upgrade aren't much concerned with cost. Personally, I am a fan of the Ambitious and as a Spyderco collector I'd be OK with paying double for an American made sprint run knife with upgraded steel. :spyder:

[Sharp Guy]

If part of the issue is China, why not make a sprint run in the USA? I think those who really want the upgrade aren't much concerned with cost. Personally, I am a fan of the Ambitious and as a Spyderco collector I'd be OK with paying double for an American made sprint run knife with upgraded steel. :spyder:

All the tooling is in China.

[Evil D]

Those who want an "upgraded" knife from the value series feel that way because of the passion for the design, not necessarily looking for a better "value" knife.
If part of the issue is China, why not make a sprint run in the USA? I think those who really want the upgrade aren't much concerned with cost. Personally, I am a fan of the Ambitious and as a Spyderco collector I'd be OK with paying double for an American made sprint run knife with upgraded steel. :spyder:

You nailed it. I'm not looking for a better value knife, I'm looking for a Tenacious made to the same standards and materials as a Para 2, at whatever cost that may equate to. Some people just can't separate the value aspect from a design, they see it as inferior because it's a value knife regardless of how/where/what it's made. Fortunately the upcoming Caribbean looks to be similar to what I'm after so that may be a good compromise.