Scale Materials-Your thoughts Sal?

[mrtodd777]

Hey there everyone. My name is Todd and I am a Quality Control Supervisor for a CNC manufacturing facility in Texas that produces Printed Circuit board fixtures for the Aerospace, Defense, and Telecommunications industries. We Machine tons of G10, Composite (durapol, durastone,) aluminum, many different tool steels, and heaps of titanium. Recently we have added two new materials to our inventory which has turned out to be very impressive in terms of machining ease, and finish. the durability is at least two times greater than g10.

Untitled by Todd Crawford, on Flickr

"Contaval is a laminate consisting of E-glass fabric, graphite and epoxy-resin and is used e. g. as a conductive slot filler in machines and also as soldering bath carriers for printed circuits. CONTAVAL® 2017 has excellent mechanical properties and shows conductivity parallel and perpendicular to the layers as well as high chemical and temperature resistance."

Untitled by Todd Crawford, on Flickr

Untitled by Todd Crawford, on Flickr

Here is a shot of what it looks like fresh off of the CNC prior to it being finished and polished by our Deburr Dept. I am unable to show the complete finished product. (sorry)

Untitled by Todd Crawford, on Flickr

Untitled by Todd Crawford, on Flickr

The next material that has proven really successful for us is Torlon. It is amazingly durable, and machines to an almost polished finish.


Untitled by Todd Crawford, on Flickr

So Sal, have you, or anyone else ever experimented with either of these materials? I would be very interested to know how they did. If you are interested in a sample I am sure I could pull a piece of drop and send it to you to mess around with. I look forward to all of yall's responses, ideas, and perhaps criticisms.. I have never made scales and know nothing of the material properties required, so I may completely wrong but after comparing the finished products of all the materials we use, including G10, I really think this stuff would be great. Thanks for reading.

[dplafoll]

For some context, I've heard that the reason for the G-10/Carbon Fiber laminate over a full-CF handle is that G-10 is so strong that the knife would break everywhere but the handles/scales before the G-10, so full-CF is massive overkill in terms of strength, and costs more. So it could be a materials like this are better than G-10, but if they cost any more probably wouldn't provide any advantage.

That said, there's no reason why they haven't or couldn't try these out. :p

[zenheretic]

Your sample has a micarta look to it. If it is stronger than G10, costs the same or less than G10, and looks like Micarta (G10 is a bit boring), that would be a cool handle material!

[The Deacon]

"CONTAVAL® 2017 has excellent mechanical properties and shows conductivity parallel and perpendicular to the layers as well as high chemical and temperature resistance."

Does that mean it conducts electricity? If so, that may be a negative quality for some users.

Your sample has a micarta look to it. If it is stronger than G10, costs the same or less than G10, and looks like Micarta (G10 is a bit boring), that would be a cool handle material!

To be fair, zen, G-10 is only boring because of the way Spyderco uses it 95% of the time, namely flat slabs with a peel-ply texture. Yuck. OTOH, polished G-10 on either a rounded (like the Byrd Harrier) or corrugated (like the PPT and Zulu) handle, is several orders of magnitude more attractive, especially if the G-10 has layers of contrasting colors.

[zenheretic]

Your sample has a micarta look to it. If it is stronger than G10, costs the same or less than G10, and looks like Micarta (G10 is a bit boring), that would be a cool handle material!

To be fair, zen, G-10 is only boring because of the way Spyderco uses it 95% of the time, namely flat slabs with a peel-ply texture. Yuck. OTOH, polished G-10 on either a rounded (like the Byrd Harrier) or corrugated (like the PPT and Zulu) handle, is several orders of magnitude more attractive, especially if the G-10 has layers of contrasting colors.

Point taken. It was a bit hasty to say it is boring, as I sit here looking at the G10 Hogue slabs on a Sig 220. You can get quick a look out of them if you put in the effort. :o

[mrtodd777]

"CONTAVAL® 2017 has excellent mechanical properties and shows conductivity parallel and perpendicular to the layers as well as high chemical and temperature resistance."

Does that mean it conducts electricity? If so, that may be a negative quality for some users.

Good question. It actually means the opposite. We provide ESD safe products to our customers so that they do not fry their live PCB's during the soldering process.

[SG89]

Interested in Sal's response to this

[wrdwrght]

Me, too.

[MadmanR1]

****, I'd like to grind a chunk into a set of scales for a mule team I got laying around.

[sal]

Hi Todd,

Thanx much for info. I'll pass it on to Eric and Tom (factory manager) and I'd love a sample.

Sal Glessser
Spyderco
820 Spyderco Way
Golden, Colorado 80403

FYI I founded, owned and operated a prototype circuit board shop in Southern California. I made boards for the aerospace industry. We could deliver 2 prototypes, thru hole plated, nickel and/or gold tips, Mil spec (.001 on hole size and 100 millionths Gold....in 24 hours. This was in '66. Very hot at the time. That's where I first learned about G-10. I used if for all sorts of projects, art and function.

We'd be interested in the new stuff. Sources would be great as well.

Hi Paul,

We're beginning to use machined G-10 more and more, both multi colored and 3D.

sal

[SpyderNut]

I'm not Sal, but I am very intrigued with these materials (especially the Contaval and Torlon). Would make some neat scales, no doubt.

[RadioactiveSpyder]

Very interesting Todd, thanks for sharing this info. Are the two materials limited to the colors you showed? It might be fun to play with these as scales. Cheers, Radioactive :)

BTW, you should maybe grab a new cover plate for that electrical outlet in your first pic

[mrtodd777]

FYI I founded, owned and operated a prototype circuit board shop in Southern California. I made boards for the aerospace industry. We could deliver 2 prototypes, thru hole plated, nickel and/or gold tips, Mil spec (.001 on hole size and 100 millionths Gold....in 24 hours. This was in '66. Very hot at the time. That's where I first learned about G-10. I used if for all sorts of projects, art and function.

We'd be interested in the new stuff. Sources would be great as well.
sal

That is really cool Sal! You guys were holding some pretty tight tolerances, especially for way back when :D . G10 is still a huge part of the pcb industry as it is dissipative rather than conductive. Same goes for Contaval and Torlon.

Untitled by Todd Crawford, on Flickr

Compared to aluminum..


Untitled by Todd Crawford, on Flickr

I will get with my sales dept today and find out where we source these materials and let you know once I figure it out. Just so everyone knows, I am in no way trying to promote these materials. I dont even know where they come from. I am just a knife nut and these are the types of things I am always thinking about (daydreaming).. I will send you a sample of the contaval soon, and when we receive in our next large order of torlon that will be on the way as well. Thanks for taking the time to respond to my inquiry.

[mrtodd777]

I'm not Sal, but I am very intrigued with these materials (especially the Contaval and Torlon). Would make some neat scales, no doubt.

Once I am able to round up some drop pieces from around the shop I will assess how much I have and might be able to send out a few samples to a few different folks here. Shoot, maybe someone will even make me some scales.. :cool: It will definitely be interesting to see what some of you pro's can do with this stuff.

[mrtodd777]

Very interesting Todd, thanks for sharing this info. Are the two materials limited to the colors you showed? It might be fun to play with these as scales. Cheers, Radioactive :)

BTW, you should maybe grab a new cover plate for that electrical outlet in your first pic

There are several color options available as far as I know but once I talk to sales I will have a more definitive answer and will surely let you know. I didnt even notice that cover plate in the photo.. Shane, my material handler has some cleaning up to do back there this morning...

[SpyderNut]

I'm not Sal, but I am very intrigued with these materials (especially the Contaval and Torlon). Would make some neat scales, no doubt.

Once I am able to round up some drop pieces from around the shop I will assess how much I have and might be able to send out a few samples to a few different folks here. Shoot, maybe someone will even make me some scales.. :cool: It will definitely be interesting to see what some of you pro's can do with this stuff.

That would be awesome! I would be certainly very willing to make you some scales. :) If you have any scraps in .125" thickness, that would work perfectly for most folders. (Note: I don't have a mill yet, so doing models with recessed liners would be a bit tricky. I have found an alternative way to recess liners in G-10 and Micarta, but it's a bit risky ).

[mrtodd777]

I'm not Sal, but I am very intrigued with these materials (especially the Contaval and Torlon). Would make some neat scales, no doubt.

Once I am able to round up some drop pieces from around the shop I will assess how much I have and might be able to send out a few samples to a few different folks here. Shoot, maybe someone will even make me some scales.. :cool: It will definitely be interesting to see what some of you pro's can do with this stuff.

That would be awesome! I would be certainly very willing to make you some scales. :) If you have any scraps in .125" thickness, that would work perfectly for most folders. (Note: I don't have a mill yet, so doing models with recessed liners would be a bit tricky. I have found an alternative way to recess liners in G-10 and Micarta, but it's a bit risky ).

I just went to the back and talked to our materials guy. He informed we only carry 6mm, 8mm, and 10mm thicknesses. the 6mm comes out to be .236"
Since you dont have a mill I am sure I can have one of my machinists face it down to .125".

[SF Native]

Todd, if you can get some cut offs, I would mind some for make scales on a mule. Maybe if it turned out ok, we could do a pass around and let people check it out.

[mrtodd777]

Todd, if you can get some cut offs, I would mind some for make scales on a mule. Maybe if it turned out ok, we could do a pass around and let people check it out.

That is a really cool idea. So as far as scales go.. What is a good starting size piece (LxWxH)?? I can probably have these precut.

[SpyderNut]

I'm not Sal, but I am very intrigued with these materials (especially the Contaval and Torlon). Would make some neat scales, no doubt.

Once I am able to round up some drop pieces from around the shop I will assess how much I have and might be able to send out a few samples to a few different folks here. Shoot, maybe someone will even make me some scales.. :cool: It will definitely be interesting to see what some of you pro's can do with this stuff.

That would be awesome! I would be certainly very willing to make you some scales. :) If you have any scraps in .125" thickness, that would work perfectly for most folders. (Note: I don't have a mill yet, so doing models with recessed liners would be a bit tricky. I have found an alternative way to recess liners in G-10 and Micarta, but it's a bit risky ).

I just went to the back and talked to our materials guy. He informed we only carry 6mm, 8mm, and 10mm thicknesses. the 6mm comes out to be .236"
Since you dont have a mill I am sure I can have one of my machinists face it down to .125".

That sounds good! .125" would be perfect. Do you have a certain model in mind that you would want scales for?