Purpose of a Business?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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sal
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Re: Purpose of a Business?

#101

Post by sal »

Hi Payne Train,

Very astute observation. Owning and running a business in what we call the "right way" or the "Spyderco Way"" is not an easy job. Keep in mind that someone has to have businesses or no one has a place to work.....unless we all want to work for the government, which I oppose.

We love the entrepreneur. They are the spark of the fire that becomes a business. Gail and I may have been the Spark that began Spyderco, but make no mistake, it is the crew that is the fire that is Spyderco.

sal
seber
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Re: Purpose of a Business?

#102

Post by seber »

Pretty simple. A business must provide a profit. All else is gravy. If there is no profit there will be no business.
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elena86
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Re: Purpose of a Business?

#103

Post by elena86 »

PayneTrain wrote:
harronek wrote:I'd be interested in knowing how many of the respondents own a business ?
I think it's fairly obvious I do not, and I'd guess that a majority of members here also don't. I think we're probably a pretty representative sample of the overall population. But you got me thinking, whether we do or do not, is there really a bias? Does it really matter?

Think about it. Employee or employer, isn't the business serving the same purpose? It could be an ideal situation where the owners of the business and the employees all like and enjoy and believe in what they do, or that may not be true for one or either side. In any circumstance, aren't they both using the business in the same way? Whether for just the money or for the fulfillment as well, aren't they both using it to enrich their lives whether directly or indirectly? Though I'm not backtracking on my stance! I still believe no matter which side of the big fancy desk you're on or your motivation for being there, it's all done through money which is what makes it a business in the first place and not a charity or a church or a hobby. But it is interesting to think that even though one person may start a business, it becomes the same tool for everyone involved in it.

Perhaps we're all in the same boat here. I think we all, employees and owners alike, can be motivated in the same ways to do what we do for a living no matter what capacity we do it in. Remember as a teen pondering your future, people would ask you what you would do for free? Then they tell you to go do that for money!
I started, developed and eventually sold a few businesses, working in a commercial bank in-between.I just want to answer a question raised by Payne Train and not go into further details: " Aren't the owners and employees, in any circumstance, using the business in the same way ? " My answer is : No they are not.

Marius
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vaisforlovers
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Re: Purpose of a Business?

#104

Post by vaisforlovers »

Surfingringo wrote:
Hey Vaisforlovers, ... I believe our disagreement is rooted in semantics rather than philosophy.

All that said though, I define a business as an entity that exists to create profit...period. That doesn't mean that I don't value those other things or think they should play a role in how a business is run. To the contrary, I value them far more than any material profit that a business could create. They are just not the purpose of a business as I choose to define a business.
Lance,

I'll start out with a thank you. As always, thank you for a well thought out and meaningful post.

As you stated, your definition of a business is "an entity that exists to create profit". It matches Webster's: "a usually commercial or mercantile activity engaged in as a means of livelihood". With yours and Webster's definition, I will humbly concede---the purpose of a business is to make a profit.
Evil D wrote:
So, I would answer this question with another question. What is the purpose of the businessman?
Maybe I was, as Evil D put it, trying to answer the question of "What is the purpose of a business man?"

Which leads me to one last thought: The purpose of a business is that of the business man's. Should he put anything ahead of profit, then it is contrary to "good business", but it is well within his prerogative to do so. When a business man chooses to put virtuous things ahead of profit, then the world is likely better for it. It is not a business' obligation to put things ahead of profit, but their choice and gift. And we should be grateful when people gift us a better world at the expense of their profit.

Thank you, Sal.

James
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Surfingringo
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Re: Purpose of a Business?

#105

Post by Surfingringo »

vaisforlovers wrote: Which leads me to one last thought: The purpose of a business is that of the business man's. Should he put anything ahead of profit, then it is contrary to "good business", but it is well within his prerogative to do so. When a business man chooses to put virtuous things ahead of profit, then the world is likely better for it. It is not a business' obligation to put things ahead of profit, but their choice and gift. And we should be grateful when people gift us a better world at the expense of their profit.

Thank you, Sal.

James
For my money, this is the best paragraph of the thread...and there have been some good ones.
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Surfingringo
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Re: Purpose of a Business?

#106

Post by Surfingringo »

elena86 wrote: I started, developed and eventually sold a few businesses, working in a commercial bank in-between.I just want to answer a question raised by Payne Train and not go into further details: " Aren't the owners and employees, in any circumstance, using the business in the same way ? "My answer is : No they are not.

Marius
Indeed. The analogy that popped into my mind when I first read Paynetrain's response (sorry, not picking on ya PT ;)) was of an owner of a house and a renter. Both of them are taking shelter in the house but their stakes are completely different and this often shows in how they treat and care for the house in which they live. Occasionally an owner will find a renter who takes care of his home as if he owned it. It is good business for the owner to "enrich" this renters life and make him want to stay. Very similar to what a smart employer will do if they are fortunate enough (and skilled enough) to procure employees who will care for the business as if it were their own. As far as the goodwill that a smart owner shows to this type of renter or employee? I will leave it to those wiser than myself to identify the motive.
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PayneTrain
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Re: Purpose of a Business?

#107

Post by PayneTrain »

Hmmmm, yeah, touche salesmen. When I read it again, it doesn't make sense like that. I'm not even gonna try and defend it. :o Don't feel the need to go easy on me, I'm here to learn just as much as I am to yammer!

I think what I really wanna say is they are both using the business. It's up to them how they are using it, whether just for money or personal fulfillment as well (made possible by money).

So employees and employers both CAN use the business to the same effect. Does that work? I'm sorry guys, I swear I'm really trying to wind down my argument! I know I've been just vomiting all over this thread, but I just love this discussion!

Edited for brevity :o
"Be the person your dog thinks you are."
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tvenuto
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Re: Purpose of a Business?

#108

Post by tvenuto »

I own a business, for reference, although clearly everyone here has patronized a business or worked for one, so your opinion isn't any less valid, it just comes from a different perspective. However, I will say that the notion of "profit" is far more nebulous than most people think, and that there are certain aspects of being in business that you can only truly learn via experience.

To answer the question...well the answer is that it's a trick question. The purpose of a business is unique to the business, I don't think this question can be answered in a general sense. So really, they way you answered the question in this thread dictates the kind of business you should start, if you were to start one. And if you were to start one, I'm pretty sure you'd come back here and modify your answer before long, because being in business is not how you probably imagine it.

I think the real critical factor for a business is not what the purpose is, but rather whether or not every person and system within the business is aligned with that purpose, top to bottom. You want a business that's true purpose is "profit?" Well then you'd better hire people who feel the same way, and reward them monetarily for things that impact the bottom line. But, don't be surprised when they fail to do things that don't have direct rewards, and expect them to be ruthless not only with their jobs, but also with you and each other. So, you'd better be one ruthless SOB, or this business, who's sole purpose was "profit," will surely fail.

The job of the business owner is this:
1. To decide what his/her true purpose is for being in business, the one they feel in their bones (this is not always easy to discover, it took me 6 years)
2. Structure the business such that fulfilling this purpose generates revenue (harder than it seems)
3. Make decisions that are aligned with that purpose, even when they seemingly run counter to immediate monetary gain (not as hard as it seems, if you feel the purpose in your bones)
4. Hire employees who are aligned with that purpose, show them how their tasks support that purpose, and give them to tools and freedom to accomplish those tasks to the best of their ability (freedom isn't an issue when they're aligned with your purpose in the first place)
5. Set up systems that reward employees for making decisions that are aligned with that purpose, even when they seemingly run counter to immediate monetary gain
6. Review and refine 2-5 on a constant basis, always seeking upgrades, and never being satisfied that things are running as good as they can be

Most businesses fail to thrive, or fail to have employees that thrive, due to having no purpose, a misaligned purpose, or a fake purpose (one that "sounds good to investors," often the case with large stock corps).
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Surfingringo
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Re: Purpose of a Business?

#109

Post by Surfingringo »

tvenuto wrote:I own a business, for reference, although clearly everyone here has patronized a business or worked for one, so your opinion isn't any less valid, it just comes from a different perspective. However, I will say that the notion of "profit" is far more nebulous than most people think, and that there are certain aspects of being in business that you can only truly learn via experience.

To answer the question...well the answer is that it's a trick question. The purpose of a business is unique to the business, I don't think this question can be answered in a general sense. So really, they way you answered the question in this thread dictates the kind of business you should start, if you were to start one. And if you were to start one, I'm pretty sure you'd come back here and modify your answer before long, because being in business is not how you probably imagine it.

I think the real critical factor for a business is not what the purpose is, but rather whether or not every person and system within the business is aligned with that purpose, top to bottom. You want a business that's true purpose is "profit?" Well then you'd better hire people who feel the same way, and reward them monetarily for things that impact the bottom line. But, don't be surprised when they fail to do things that don't have direct rewards, and expect them to be ruthless not only with their jobs, but also with you and each other. So, you'd better be one ruthless SOB, or this business, who's sole purpose was "profit," will surely fail.

The job of the business owner is this:
1. To decide what his/her true purpose is for being in business, the one they feel in their bones (this is not always easy to discover, it took me 6 years)
2. Structure the business such that fulfilling this purpose generates revenue (harder than it seems)
3. Make decisions that are aligned with that purpose, even when they seemingly run counter to immediate monetary gain (not as hard as it seems, if you feel the purpose in your bones)
4. Hire employees who are aligned with that purpose, show them how their tasks support that purpose, and give them to tools and freedom to accomplish those tasks to the best of their ability (freedom isn't an issue when they're aligned with your purpose in the first place)
5. Set up systems that reward employees for making decisions that are aligned with that purpose, even when they seemingly run counter to immediate monetary gain
6. Review and refine 2-5 on a constant basis, always seeking upgrades, and never being satisfied that things are running as good as they can be

Most businesses fail to thrive, or fail to have employees that thrive, due to having no purpose, a misaligned purpose, or a fake purpose (one that "sounds good to investors," often the case with large stock corps).
Excellent post tvenuto. I especially liked the section I highlighted. :D Really though, I think you articulated many of the subtleties of this idea quite accurately.
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tvenuto
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Re: Purpose of a Business?

#110

Post by tvenuto »

Ha thanks. That post is essentially the distillation of what I've learned in 7 years of owning a business, and it cost me far more and took me far longer to learn than any advanced degree!
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Ryno
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Re: Purpose of a Business?

#111

Post by Ryno »

This may be a provocative question for a separate thread, but does anyone want to discuss what the purpose of government is?
Ryan

“Every created being is so constituted as to be capable of vice and virtue. For he can do nothing praiseworthy, if he had not the power of turning either way.” - Justin Martyr
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Re: Purpose of a Business?

#112

Post by harronek »

Ryno wrote:This may be a provocative question for a separate thread, but does anyone want to discuss what the purpose of government is?
The purpose of government is to tax business .

Ken
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Re: Purpose of a Business?

#113

Post by Surfingringo »

harronek wrote:
Ryno wrote:This may be a provocative question for a separate thread, but does anyone want to discuss what the purpose of government is?
The purpose of government is to tax business .

Ken


Buahahahahahaha!! Close the thread! Nothing more to learn here! :D :D
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Ryno
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Re: Purpose of a Business?

#114

Post by Ryno »

Surfingringo wrote:
harronek wrote:
Ryno wrote:This may be a provocative question for a separate thread, but does anyone want to discuss what the purpose of government is?
The purpose of government is to tax business .

Ken


Buahahahahahaha!! Close the thread! Nothing more to learn here! :D :D
Government is a strange thing. Nobody wants it, but everyone benefits at least a little from some government program(s).
Ryan

“Every created being is so constituted as to be capable of vice and virtue. For he can do nothing praiseworthy, if he had not the power of turning either way.” - Justin Martyr
nick800
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Re: Purpose of a Business?

#115

Post by nick800 »

My family owns a successful business. To us, the purpose of the business is to provide good and stable jobs to those that work for us. To do that, the business must be well run with positive cash flow, which funds the required continual growth.

I also owned my own business for a while.

I think most business owners are individuals who can't work for someone else. So they find a way to create something of value that they can sell and create their own desired level of freedom of choice and financial security.
Michael Janich
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Re: Purpose of a Business?

#116

Post by Michael Janich »

Dear Oliviaman:

Welcome to the Spyderco Forum.

Stay safe,

Mike
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Re: Purpose of a Business?

#117

Post by Bolster »

From my reading, appears to be a lot of variability between generations. This is an over-generalization, but: Older generations say the purpose of a business is to offer a desirable product/service while making a profit. Millennials and iGen say the purpose of business is to promote a woke agenda and to fund government.

There is something to be said for the wisdom that comes with age.
sal wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:54 am
So, for the purposes of discussion, what do you think the purpose of a business?

Naturally I have my own opinions, which I will share, but I'm curious as to what you think?

sal

I've read a lot of opinions, but not Sal's...time to share, Sal?
Tgmr05
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Re: Purpose of a Business?

#118

Post by Tgmr05 »

The purpose of a business is to generate a revenue stream while providing something of value for customers to use/consume.

What value is provided and how the revenue stream is used can play a critical role in how the business performs overall, but is not the most critical thing. How the business operates is very important, as is what drives/motivates the operations...
Sevenco
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Re: Purpose of a Business?

#119

Post by Sevenco »

Late to the party as ever!

I own a successful fashion company here in the UK, over the last ten years it's grown in size exponentially,
The ethos behind the company is and always will be to help people to feel good about the way they look, and to provide a happy, safe and fun place for those that work for the company, we pay everyone well above minimum wage and no one is ever used or preyed upon,
We trade ethically and never have, never will turn someone over to make a fast buck,
Seems to work for us, the finances have always been secondary to the ethics of it as a whole,
One of my very favourite things throughout the whole process is seeing everyone leave at the end of the working day laughing, joking and feeling happy with smiles on their faces.
austrian_spyder_fan
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Re: Purpose of a Business?

#120

Post by austrian_spyder_fan »

Very interesting thread, even after a break of 4 years.
I'm not an entrepreneur, just an employee.
I would be too cowardly to start a company, although I have a lot of ideas.

So Sal please share your opinions.
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