PARA 2 and MILITARY models prohibited in Canada

[Liquid Cobra]

Neither the PM2 nor the Military are prohibited in Canada. This thread is misleading. Unfortunately the OP was victim to an overzealous border guard. Our laws here in Canada haven't changed.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Cobra, thank you for the clarification. And so, from what you know, what are the basic knife laws in Canada? I am sure it may depend on particular cities and provinces, but in a general sense, can you give us the run-down?

[PayneTrain]

They told me "Look there's plenty other worse problems in the world that have to be fixed, for us to be worrying or concerned about carrying a knife."

I mean it's obviously true that there are worse things to worry about. There are always worse things to worry about! And I believe that is why a lot of these silly laws never get revisited and scrutinized for actual merit. It's so easy to pass a law, especially the media- and fear-fueled knee jerk reaction type which is probably where most knife laws come from, but it can be near impossible to change them. I live in CT, (former) home of the Sandy Hook nut job and the worst gun laws in the country. I'm reminded of this kind of selfish, narrow, superficial, short sighted thinking every time I see a picture of a modern gun, because it's more likely than not that I can't have it in one form or another. :rolleyes:

[Slumblor]

Cobra, thank you for the clarification. And so, from what you know, what are the basic knife laws in Canada? I am sure it may depend on particular cities and provinces, but in a general sense, can you give us the run-down?

prohibited weapon means
(a) a knife that has a blade that opens automatically
by gravity or centrifugal force or by hand pressure applied
to a button, spring or other device in or attached
to the handle of the knife

Quoted from the Criminal Code, I think customs officer's interpretation of this may vary. But basically flick knives, balisongs and automatics are prohibited. a manual folder is legal, but a weak detent or loose pivot may flag a knife as a flick or gravity knife by an officer inspecting it. Local by-laws may put restrictions on carry size etc, I believe. This is my understanding.

[Liquid Cobra]

Cobra, thank you for the clarification. And so, from what you know, what are the basic knife laws in Canada? I am sure it may depend on particular cities and provinces, but in a general sense, can you give us the run-down?

prohibited weapon means
(a) a knife that has a blade that opens automatically
by gravity or centrifugal force or by hand pressure applied
to a button, spring or other device in or attached
to the handle of the knife

Quoted from the Criminal Code, I think customs officer's interpretation of this may vary. But basically flick knives, balisongs and automatics are prohibited. a manual folder is legal, but a weak detent or loose pivot may flag a knife as a flick or gravity knife by an officer inspecting it. Local by-laws may put restrictions on carry size etc, I believe. This is my understanding.

Slumblor pretty much nailed it. Although he mentions flick knives as being prohibited which isn't the case. Maybe he can clarify what he means by flick knife. Many people here incorrectly assume that spring assisted knives (even with flippers) are illegal but they are not.They are perfectly legal. However, the Canadian border services agency has decided to start interpreting the law quoted above as to include assisted flippers as they are now making the determination that the flipper tab is a "button" because it passes through the handle of the knife. Which makes no sense, the flipper tab is part of the blade. Using their rationale, you could say that the blade is part of the handle, which of course it is not. But like I said, the laws haven't changed so those knives are still perfectly legal here in Canada. It's just trickier getting them across the border unless you are a knife dealer. They don't seem to have any problems. It's not a huge concern for me because Spyderco doesn't use springs in their flippers. That said, an attack on spring assist flippers will eventually lead to other types of knives so I'm paying attention to this as it develops.

I'll also point out that it's illegal to carry a weapon of any kind in Canada. No pepper spray, kubatons, nothing. If you are carrying a knife, that is fine as long as you're not carrying it as a weapon. I carry a PM2 to open things, it's a a tool. So it's legal. It's illegal to carry a concealed weapon, but because a knife isn't a weapon (again, it's a cutting tool) there isn't any worry about it being concealed or not. Confusing, I know.

There's no blade length limits on the knives you can carry either. But as some cities have bylaws that limit this.

[Slumblor]

Right, I'm not sure if a 'flick knife' is actually a thing, but I've heard the term used in this context. My understanding is that a knife that can be opened by a flick of the wrist would be considered prohibited, under that gravity or centrifugal opening wording. This is the part that is all up to interpretation of the law. Not that it's necessarily right, but may cause a knife to be flagged by customs as prohibited.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Thank you guys for explaining this to me.

[WCC]

This is a philosophical point, but I wonder why the lawmakers are so concerned with passing a law which determines illegality based on how easy it is to open a knife. Surely, the ability to open a knife quickly and with the least amount of effort would be more desirable, especially in an emergency situation. If somebody is carrying a knife for criminal purposes why would he concern himself with such a law in any case? Would it really deter him to the point of saying 'oh well I cannot carry the knife legally so let me rather not commit the originally intended crime'? LOL :D

[Liquid Cobra]

This is a philosophical point, but I wonder why the lawmakers are so concerned with passing a law which determines illegality based on how easy it is to open a knife. Surely, the ability to open a knife quickly and with the least amount of effort would be more desirable, especially in an emergency situation. If somebody is carrying a knife for criminal purposes why would he concern himself with such a law in any case? Would it really deter him to the point of saying 'oh well I cannot carry the knife legally so let me rather not commit the originally intended crime'? LOL :D

It does seem that speed of deployment is a concern for them. Which is ridiculous because we are allowed to carry any length of fixed blade we like. What's faster than pulling a fixed blade? :rolleyes:

Unfortunately the law was probably written just to have something on the books so that a politician could look like they were doing something to keep people "safe".

[SF Native]

This is a philosophical point, but I wonder why the lawmakers are so concerned with passing a law which determines illegality based on how easy it is to open a knife. Surely, the ability to open a knife quickly and with the least amount of effort would be more desirable, especially in an emergency situation. If somebody is carrying a knife for criminal purposes why would he concern himself with such a law in any case? Would it really deter him to the point of saying 'oh well I cannot carry the knife legally so let me rather not commit the originally intended crime'? LOL :D

Just to play devils advocate...
I would guess that more stabbings occur during bar fights. In that case a slower opening might give friends a chance to step in and stop their friend or the opponent a chance to run (or pull a gun). But that is giving more thought than many of these laws probably deserve.
I agree with LC that these are passed to be "hard on crime" or just want to possibly add one more charge to someone who steps out of line. Get pulled over for speeding and go away in handcuffs for having a knife that's too long or deploys too fast. Good grief.

[aesmith]

Right, I'm not sure if a 'flick knife' is actually a thing ..

"Flick Knife" is the term used in Britain for what I think the US calls a "switchblade". Defined in UK law as "any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife"

We also have a "gravity knife" definition, allegedly arising because people could get around the flick knife ban by removing the spring and shaking the blade open or letting it fall. "any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force and which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other device, sometimes known as a “gravity knife”,

The second one is the one that private importers have been falling foul of. With a lot of practice just about any folding knife can be made to open by flicking or waving it around, and the border agency even resorted apparently to holding the blade and flicking the handle open. Sounds like what they;re finding in Canada,

[akaAK]

Neither the PM2 nor the Military are prohibited in Canada. This thread is misleading. Unfortunately the OP was victim to an overzealous border guard. Our laws here in Canada haven't changed.

You are right our laws have not changed and based on those laws the PM2 and Military should not be prohibited. That being said I have a letter from a government agency specifically declaring these two items as prohibited and those knives have now been destroyed (or pocketed because the are nice knives)

The thread was meant as a warning so I am not sure it was misleading, the knives have been declared prohibited so not sure that was misleading either.

Do I have PM2's and Millies, yes, do I still carry them, yes, do I think it is overzealous border flunkies, yes. Can I afford to fight it in court, no.

For all the knives getting through, congrats, but I had over 600 dollars flushed down the toilet, just a warning.

[Brock O Lee]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune akaAK. It is depressing to have nice knives confiscated like this (and probably in the pocket of some border agent as we speak), not to mention the loss of your hard earned cash. Incidents like this creates enough uncertainty that eats at the back of your mind with the next purchase. Not cool.

[Liquid Cobra]

Neither the PM2 nor the Military are prohibited in Canada. This thread is misleading. Unfortunately the OP was victim to an overzealous border guard. Our laws here in Canada haven't changed.

You are right our laws have not changed and based on those laws the PM2 and Military should not be prohibited. That being said I have a letter from a government agency specifically declaring these two items as prohibited and those knives have now been destroyed (or pocketed because the are nice knives)

The thread was meant as a warning so I am not sure it was misleading, the knives have been declared prohibited so not sure that was misleading either.

Do I have PM2's and Millies, yes, do I still carry them, yes, do I think it is overzealous border flunkies, yes. Can I afford to fight it in court, no.

For all the knives getting through, congrats, but I had over 600 dollars flushed down the toilet, just a warning.

A government agency, but not "the" government. It's a good warning to those ordering them from the states but as far as carrying, owning or using those knives in Canada is concerned, they are legal.

[Slumblor]

http://www.durhamregion.com/news-story/ ... of-knives/

I read this a while back and it's an interesting interpretation of the law by the courts. Basically finding that the tightness of the pivot screw will determine it's legality?

[mjl]

All those people that are screaming about banning "dangerous weapons": I wonder if they are now screaming in Australia to ban cars since someone used a car to kill several people and put a large number in hospital. And while we are at it, I reckon that in France they should ban trucks.

In cases like this I always think about an answer that Einstein supposedly gave when he was asked if he thought the universe was finite or infinite: "I do not know about the universe but I know human stupidity is infinite".