PARA 2 and MILITARY models prohibited in Canada

[akaAK]

I just received my formal notice from the Canada Border Services Agency that these two models are prohibited in Canada as defined in Subsection 84(1) of the Criminal Code. They have been classified as Centrifugal Opening Blades based on the wrist flick test. It should be noted that a wrist flick is in no way representative of centrifugal force but this is what you get when you get civil servants who decide that they can re-write Canadian laws by their own interpretation.

These are the Knifeworks exclusive CF Para 2 and Green Millie which will be destroyed unless I can find a Customs Bonded Courier willing to ship them back to Knifeworks. To say the least it is a big chunk of change I am out but the underlying illegal actions of Canadian civil servants is the part that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Any help on the bonded courier would be fantastic. I pulled a list and will try to contact them today to see if they are willing to do this.

Today I am embarrassed to say that I am Canadian.

[demoncase]

Oh man, that sucks.

Is there any form of appeal or redress that you can engauge in?

We have a frequent similar issue with the UK Border Agency- some of them think an arms-length flick to snap a knife open is the same as the banned-by-name 'gravity knife'- anything with a flipper, AO or running on bearings is liable to get netted, despite being able to show them that they are already for sale inside the UK by UK dealers.....I ask anyone shipping to me if they will nip up the pivot screw a little to make it stiff to open and prevent the 'creative misintreptation' that goes on.

[sal]

Here we go again. :rolleyes:

Thanx for the head's up.

sal

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Man what absolute utter nonsense and bilge, to ban the most universal external tool of mankind. Thank you for the post and info.

[akaAK]

There is an appeal process but it is judged internally and it would appear that from the top down the decision has been made that the law as written is not accurate. My discussion with the CBSA indicated that there will be upcoming legislation to amend the criminal code but this is not in place. I did not receive an answer about the enforcement of a law which has not been vetted and enacted through parliment. I also didn't receive and explanation for the new interpretation of centrifugal force other than the CBSA has established precedent for the demonstration of a knife opening through "centrifugal force" by the use of non centrifugal force. government logic at its finest.

Sal I imagine the Canadian market is a small but somewhat lucrative market. The funny thing is that I have a Para 2 (cruwear sprint) and a Katanna on its way from Vancouver as we speak. Makes very little sense.

[Liquid Cobra]

Here we go again. :rolleyes:

Thanx for the head's up.

sal

Sal anything you would suggest? As you can imagine, this is a nightmare for us up here.

[SG89]

Wow that is awful.

[akaAK]

You might get lucky Whitetail, they let slip that it was the monetary value of the package (Para and Millie) that flagged it for review. I won't be ordering anything out of the US for some time. One knife might slip through.

I would even let them destroy them but they are unwilling not provide evidence of their destruction. I am supposed to trust them while they break the law in the guise of being the authority on the this specific law. I am not going to let those criminals pocket them.

Knifeworks let me know that they would refund the package as long as the items were not damaged or tampered with. If I can get it back to them i will order some other items (flashlights or other non-knife related items) from them as opposed to the refund, not their fault and they have been good to deal with in the past.

[mb1]

They must be really good. I had to practice to be able to open with a wrist flick! I don't believe they can do it.

This really sucks though. Glad to see Sal is on it. This is bad for everyone involved.

[sal]

We've been through this with Canada a number of times. We built a special machine to measure force to open. We had an audience with the Crown. It comes up every 6-10 years.

Our time with the Crown clearly demonstrated that they really didn't want a clear law. We had an attorney, sent numerous samples. Even when we made a sample so tight that no one could open it with a flick, they opened the blade half way using the hole and then flicked it. :rolleyes:

sal

[wrdwrght]

I suspect the models' names alone simply irked some faceless bureaucrat who has been yearning for Canada's peacekeeping days. Otherwise, Manixes, Stretches, Natives, etc. would be prohibited also.

I don't make these observations flippantly (no pun intended). When my wife and I drove to Toronto to visit our daughter last month, I had the Knifeworks PM2 in my pocket.

I do wish there was a national discourse on both sides of the border on what is a crime as opposed to a pre-crime. We need to move away from physical objects (where all sorts of pre-crimes can be imagined) to manifest behavio(u)r (which is subject to tests in a court of law).

This discourse is especially important in Canada where the Charter of Rights and Freedoms avoids the Second Amendment's content entirely.

[mb1]

It's much harder to do on the PM2 with the shorter blade than the Milie. But in either case, you really have to mean it and use very specific technique. I don't get the intent of the law here, especially if it relates to safety. This is by no means a safety issue. That detent is tough to overcome.

How does the Crown feel about the Waved models?

[akaAK]

I think Sal has hit it on the head, without clear laws the public is left to the mercy of interpretation. How does the common person fight this, take days off work, hire experts and a lawyer.

The model names are inflamatory to some but our laws are very clear, If i use one of those soft pool noodles (flotation devices) to strangle someone it is immediately classified as a prohibited item. I have carried a pocketknife for the better part of 35 years, never used one to threaten or assualt anybody, never had reason for the police to search me and find one. They have and always will be a tool to me. Hope you enjoyed the Toronto visit wrdwrght.

Not sure on the waved models, like the Para and Millie they are readily available in Canada, never needed to import one from the states. I suspect like anything this is a slippery slope until I get put in jail for having a plastic butter knife in my work bag.

Thanks for the support, if anybody was going to understand my frustration it would be here.

[jdw]

Canadian and EU knife laws are something that frustrate me that shouldn't as it does not affect me at all.
That said, and all politics aside. I do not understand the reasoning behind knife laws.
Okay, a crazy can kill a bunch of people with a multi-round firearm of any kind. When it
comes down to it there are a lot of ways that people have figured out how to kill a bunch of people.
I live in the OKC metro area and remember the Murrah federal bombing clearly.
Find any flaw in the law that you like.
But a knife??? Really????

[mb1]

Yeah, I'm just unclear on the intent of the law. If it's safety, then it's nonsense. If it's something related to deployment speed or ease, it's really nonsense if waved models are allowed.

[bh49]

Sorry to hear this.

[curlyhairedboy]

They've banned flippers too.

https://www.reddit.com/r/knifeclub/comm ... onsidered/

[wrdwrght]

Uh oh...

Having resided in Montreal for 22 years (and become a Canadian citizen while there), this story (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canad ... nal-dagger) troubles me even more than a lazy Customs bureaucrat.

Osama bin Laden may be dead, but he won.

[ABX2011]

That really stinks. I assume no problem ordering from a Canadian based retailer like Warriors and Wonders? I guess in this case you were ordering dealer exclusives.

[sal]

Yeah, I'm just unclear on the intent of the law. If it's safety, then it's nonsense. If it's something related to deployment speed or ease, it's really nonsense if waved models are allowed.

Hi Mark,

As I understand, they want to be able to hold someone in jail while they check guilt and a prohibitive weapon is a good standby.

sal