Official Ouorboros Review and Give-A-Way Thread

[paulwa]

Well the Ouroboros is officially available, I finally have my production version in hand, and I wanted to say the team at Spyderco and Seki City did an amazing job:

But I don’t want you to have to take my word for it… and that’s the point of this thread. This is my first design, and in the hopes of making the Ouroboros one of many collaborations with Spyderco, your feedback will be invaluable. So I’m doing a give-a-way to encourage forum members to share their honest (good, bad, ugly, amazing) opinions on the design. To sweeten the pot and make it worth your while, here’s what you could win with an Ouroboros review:

Well, not that particular one. That Ouroboros Keyring, a 1.5” split ring with custom sterling silver Ouroboros-head bead, is mine. But, you could win one of these other ones:

Here’s the details, add a knife review of the Ouroboros to this thread, it MUST include ORIGINAL PICTURE/S OF YOUR OUROBOROS helping to illustrate your review’s key points. I’ll be watching this thread (and only this thread) for submissions, and I’ll add users who post reviews here to the list of folks who could be randomly selected to receive one of the Ouroboros Keyrings. Entries are limited to one per account, but updates with in-the-field experiences will be much appreciated. I will incrementally add more of the 5 keyrings to the drawing as entries increase. So if we get 1-9 reviews - 1 person will get a keyring; 10-16 reviews - 2 winners; 17-21 reviews - 3 winners; 22-24 - 4 winners; 25+ reviews - 5 winners. (If entries total greater than 25, I’ll be very pleasantly surprised, but more importantly, I’ll get another batch of beads cast so odds of winning will be around that 1 in 5 mark and don’t get any worse.)
The books will close on the entries come Dec. 31st (that gives hunters a chance to put it through its paces, as well as the gift-wrappers, or possibly time for a second batch of Ourobori to drop). I’ll notify winners via the various forum communication tools and get things in the post once shipping details are confirmed.

So, there you go; I’m hoping this will inspire people to share their thoughtful opinions and experiences regarding the Ouroboros. I’ll definitely be frequenting this thread to field any questions that may pop up regarding the knife, reviews, entries, etc.

Thanks a bunch in advance to all those that submit a review and participate in this thread,
- Paul

[Molle Ninja]

Nice, Paul! I'll probably wait for the price to come down a bit, but this looks like a winner in my book. Congrats!

[Mushroom]

Thanks for doing this Paul, very generous of you! Those key rings are pretty neat and unique too, would even make for good lanyard beads as well.
Hoping I can grab the Ouroboros somewhere sooner than later, its pretty high on the "want list" right now :D

[farnorthdan]

Very generous of you Paul, I almost pulled the trigger on one today from BHQ but looked at my credit card and decided this one will have to wait for a bit, I'll get one eventually though, very ergonomic and just has that :spyder: look to it that I've come love, hence my sig line. :D

[EDC Honeybee]

Very cool. This was the knife I was most excited for when announced. Sounds and looks like exactly what I want in a knife, but its a little pricey for my budget so I am going to have to wait until christmas probably to try to afford it. Otherwise, it checks every box for what I look for in a knife. Looking forward to seeing others reviews. :)

[Bugs]

Paul could you elaborate on the purpose of the knife design; best uses etc.

[bpahk]

Just got mine today. Thanks Paul, i'm impressed. Those key rings look pretty nice too, so here goes:

Overall, I think its an elegant design. It seems like it takes a lot of design cues from Sal's own designs, with the 50/50 choil and how the lines of knife flow nicely in both the open and closed positions. Super smooth deployment and good detent. Great flicker.

I expected it to grip somewhat like the kiwi, but it feels much different in hand. It has a nice grippy texture on the peel ply g10. The blade centering came ever so slightly off, but i realized this was probably due to the fact that theres some flex in the handle because the scales are unexpectedly thin. This is not a complaint -- I like the narrow profile of it and the nested steel liners in the handle should give it plenty of strength, esp for something thats not intended for hard use. The precise machining required on the g10 prob explains some of the cost as well. I love the spyderco wire clips, but it would've been nice to have one slightly longer, which I'll probably end up swapping it out for. The stock clip is the same as the dragonfly clip.

The really like the grind on the blade and it has a nice distal taper to it. The tip on the heel of the blade where the choil begins has been rounded off for safety which i thought was a nice little attention to detail. The blade shape itself has much more belly than I would normally usually use for EDC, but it goes well with the organic curves of the design.

The only criticism I have is that the large rounded butt of the handle where my ring and pinky grip feels more like it was done more for aesthetics rather than ergos. I find myself using a three finger grip with my ring/pinky resting uncomfortably on it with no real purchase. Personally I think it would feel better in hand with either a deeper cutout for the finger grooves extending farther toward the butt or just make it narrower on the tail end, but then the looks would probably suffer for it.

Other nitpicks: Not sure why a steel backspacer was necessary instead of a g10 -- i'm guessing this is to balance the weight of the knife which places the center right where the compression lock cutout lies. It feels very lightweight so its not really an issue anyway. Also the torx screw holding the stop pin on the lockbar side is recessed deeper than the other screws which are relatively flush to the g10. This probably has to do with the hardware for the nested compression lock, but the OCD in me wishes that screw were at the same depth as the rest of the screws.

here's some pics in poor lighting with some comparison shots of similarly sized models.

[paulwa]

Howdy all, many thanks to bpahk for posting the first review and many thanks for the honest feedback, especially the comments on the grip. That's an area I'm going to talk a bit about in this thread to help spur discussion and supply more grist for the review mill.

Mushroom, those beads are fairly unique, I designed it myself and only made a few via Shapeways. Aside from the 6 pictured, in the wild there's just one, that's in Spyderco's/Eric's hands attached to a prototype I submitted. I have one other on a different prototype that needs a little work. So that's only 8 of them in existence. It does make an OK lanyard bead, but the hole is a little small for 2 pieces of paracord, unless you gut it, and gutted paracord is just ribbon. This may get addressed in a future give-a-way if this one goes well...

As far as price goes, to address a point of a number of posters, it's on par with other, similar Japanese offerings, and the old-school Japanese build quality is definitely there (the build reminds me of the Rock Lobster). It would be cool if it were cheaper, and more folks could get one in their hands, but the current price is fair when all factors are included. Plus, the Ouroboros is a polarizing design, so I'll bet a few will hit the secondary market, if you're patient.

Finally, Bugs, check out this link for a pretty extensive design review I did on the Ouroboros:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69789
But I'll be posting more of my thoughts on the knife in this thread (w/ pics), now that I have one in hand. Potential/intended uses will also be discussed in those posts.

Take care everyone,
- Paul

[NickShabazz]

I'm planning to do a full review on my YouTube channel as soon as mine arrives and I have some time to spend with it. But I'm really interested in the knife. One of few where I saw the design and instantly pre-ordered. I appreciate your feedback on the price, as that's my big question mark, given the steel and the pricing contrast with the Sage 5. We'll see if it makes sense! Thanks for doing this giveaway!

[Liquid Cobra]

I'm planning to do a full review on my YouTube channel as soon as mine arrives and I have some time to spend with it. But I'm really interested in the knife. One of few where I saw the design and instantly pre-ordered. I appreciate your feedback on the price, as that's my big question mark, given the steel and the pricing contrast with the Sage 5. We'll see if it makes sense! Thanks for doing this giveaway!

Curious nick, are you thinking that it's cheaper or worse somehow to have a knife made in Japan? Or are you thinking that they are using cheaper or inferior materials than the Taichung plant? Or something else?

[NickShabazz]

Curious nick, are you thinking that it's cheaper or worse somehow to have a knife made in Japan? Or are you thinking that they are using cheaper or inferior materials than the Taichung plant? Or something else?

The Japanese factory is very competent, and produces some of my favorites. It's more a question of materials for me. The steel (VG-10) is fine for EDC, but a bit surprising when the Sage, Native 5, etc have all moved on to more modern and higher edge-retention steels like S30V or S35VN, while coming in at lower prices. Put differently, looking at prices in Spyderco's lineup in terms of steel, construction location, and size, the Ouroboros absolutely seems like an outlier on the high side. It's workable, but it's absolutely going to have to "earn" that price point with build quality, a lack of cut corners, uniqueness, and excellence of design. That said, I think that's very possible that it can pull it off, as it's a knife unlike any other out there, and I can't wait for mine to arrive (any day now!).

One question for somebody who's got one already, just to assuage my post-Junior fears: Are the washers teflon or bronze/metallic?

[Skidoosh]

I'm wondering if this was a smaller production run and therefore a higher price. Its a question of price vs. materials for me. With money in my pocket I can either go for this or a maxamet manix at about the same price point.

[paulwa]

Howdy all,
For my "review", I think I’ll be posting pictures of the Ouroboros in hand, in different grips, and comment on uses for that grip and other ideas that pop up while I’m messing around getting getting the images. So let’s get started…

Grip: The Usual

When most people grab the knife, this is the first grip they go for instinctively (not my 'go-to' grip, but still a very useful one). I use this grip for generic cutting tasks that require a decent amount of control. This works great for opening packages, piercing bubble packs, even a little paring/fine slicing in the kitchen (this grip works pretty well at the cutting board). I find this grip to be most comfortable when the bulk of the grasping force is applied through the thumb and pointer finger, with the middle finger applying any additional needed pressure. I usually let the ring and pinky fingers loosely wrap around the palm swell. That pinch-like grip at the choil does most of the work and drives the blade, but also allows you to precisely pivot the blade left and right with minimal pressure/contact supplied by those draped, last two fingers (the relatively long handle give you lots of leverage). You can bear down with your full hand if needed, and the knife will very positively lock into your hand, but this tight, full grip isn’t the most comfortable for extended use or repetitive tasks. The palm swell can cramp the last three fingers together a bit when the knife is choked like this, so, while it’s reassuring to dramatically increase grip security with just a squeeze, it’s better to relax the ring and pinky fingers and let the geometry of the swell naturally fill the gap between fingers and palm.

Thanks for reading, and the next edition will feature my personal favorite grip,
- Paul

[NickShabazz]

One question for somebody who's got one already, just to assuage my post-Junior fears: Are the washers teflon or bronze/metallic?

Just got mine. I'll do a "first impressions" video soon, but to answer my own question, sadly, it's running on teflon washers, although the action is pretty decent, considering. Paul, can you give us any insight into that choice? Was that a conscious decision on your part, or a cost-cutting measure?

Ugly little teflon surprises aside, the rest of the knife is nicely built, and it fits beautifully in the hand. It's one heck of a slicer. And Paul, you've got a great maker's mark going. Appreciated!

[paulwa]

I prefer and use phosphor bronze in my knives/prototypes, but own and love a number with teflon. My guess is that the factory's preference may have had something to do with it, but cannot say for sure. That said, my piece is very smooth and lock up is rock solid.
- Paul

[NickShabazz]

It's not a full review, but here are some first impressions, in case anybody's curious...

https://www.youtube.com/embed/N6To85y9Xxs

Such a great knife in so many ways. I'm wondering, now, if there's an off-the-shelf PB washer I could use here.

[Flipping Addict]

Nick, you come thru again. Great initial review. While the knife hold no interest for me, your review was excellent as usual. Keep it up. I am a subscriber.

[NickShabazz]

One other note: This is the best index-finger-flipping knife that I've had from Spyderco. This little guy is growing on me.

[paulwa]

One other note: This is the best index-finger-flipping knife that I've had from Spyderco. This little guy is growing on me.

I'm 100% on board with you Nick on the index finger flicking. When the Ouroboros is opened like that, it's very easy and natural to finish gripping the knife when it is fully opened It also does really well with a Spyder-drop opening (thanks to the weight of the spacer at the butt end), too bad I couldn't get the tip-down option to package, plus it would have added a lot of unused holes to the design.

And thanks for the enthusiastic first impressions, I'm hoping that vibe continues as you get more miles on your version and you finish the full run-down.

- Paul

[DougC-3]

Hi, Paul, I've really been looking forward to this one. I overlooked this thread when mine came in and posted elsewhere, so, since it's the official thread, I hope it'll be OK if I paste in the initial shots I posted in the other thread. Since everybody's hands are different sizes, shapes, etc, maybe a few more pics are in order.

I included the Superleaf for perspective and because of the family resemblance -- same G-10, VG-10, compression lock, and home town & factory. Plus, I think they make a nice EDC pair :)

First impressions: Mine is very well ground and shaving sharp out of the box, and I really like the aesthetics of the design. The expanded area toward the butt of the handle, in my opinion, helps with the behind the choil grip, making it feel more secure. I found the grip to be very comfortable with index finger both in the choil and behind the choil. I tried several grips before actually using the knife, and in a hammer-handle-like grip, index finger in choil, it seemed that my middle and ring fingers wrapped a little too far around the thin area of the handle. Later, in actual use, my hands were more relaxed and automatically went to a more comfortable grip with finger tips resting more on the scales. My blade is perfectly centered, and I like the weight saving nested liners.

According to my scales, it weighs 0.4 oz less than the similar sized Caly 3 ... which brings up the question: are there any plans about an Ouroboras 3.5? Also, I think there's room for expansion in the Spyderco lineup for knives between the Delica and Endura in size, that is, for people who are not crazy about the the Stretch and PM2. Two of my favorites are the Nishijin R and the Superleaf, and I also like the Manix2, but I'd like to see more variety in that size, especially for lighter designs, maybe along the lines of the Ouroboros.

I finally had a chance to use mine today, and the first thing I did didn't even involve the handle. I pinch gripped the center of the blade and used it as a seam ripper, cutting threads to remove some pockets from a pair of pants without harming the cloth. (I got the crazy notion to glue them into my favorite pair of cargo fatigues, which had worn out pockets -- never did anything like that before, but it seems to be working :D ) After that I cut up 3 or 4 pounds of tomatoes, radishes, carrots, onions, and cucumbers for salads. It worked great for that, but the longer blade of my hypothetical Ouroboros 3.5 would have been better for the giant tomatoes

Edit: I'm just mentioning the 3.5" length for an Ouroboras as a possible future design -- personally I like the 3" model's blade proportions better and would have definitely bought it first if both sizes had been available. I think this "broadleaf blade" helps fill a gap in the lineup.