Mantra bearing race issue SOLVED

[Evil D]

I read about doing it gradually, but that was after I had already watched the vid and tried it out. At least we know what to do from now on.
Mine was curved from factory too, but didn't fully form around it til I tried to fix it.
Like your solution suggests, we just need to help it wear in. Just tightening it a little more, and I think using less lubricant to give it a chance to "cut" a track into the washer is all that's needed... plus having a nice flat washer.

I'm debating getting the mantra 2, if I do, I may just try flattening the washer out and seeing if that's all that's needed.

P.S did the bearings scratch into your blade tang? ... or even the scales?

I didn't take it back apart after the final break in but I do know my bearings are still cupped quite a bit. This seems to be unavoidable on these knives with bearing pivots, my Southard is the same way but I never had any issue with dents in the washers, they were definitely cupped right from the factory though.

[Slumblor]

I just asked this over on BF, but this seems like a good spot to get an answer. The Mantra I bought and then sent back was not very smooth, I'd seen this post and was prepared to work in the washers in the bearing race. But with mine even when I had the lockbar as wide open as it would go, the detent ball dragged on the blade and made it very rough. Is that normal? it seems from the video when the lockbar is wedged open that it isn't. Did I just get a bad one?

[Evil D]

I just asked this over on BF, but this seems like a good spot to get an answer. The Mantra I bought and then sent back was not very smooth, I'd seen this post and was prepared to work in the washers in the bearing race. But with mine even when I had the lockbar as wide open as it would go, the detent ball dragged on the blade and made it very rough. Is that normal? it seems from the video when the lockbar is wedged open that it isn't. Did I just get a bad one?

Hard for any of us to say what's defective and what isn't, but with the lock bar all the way out on mine (with the clothes pin wedged in) nothing touched the blade at all.

[Sharp Guy]

I just asked this over on BF, but this seems like a good spot to get an answer. The Mantra I bought and then sent back was not very smooth, I'd seen this post and was prepared to work in the washers in the bearing race. But with mine even when I had the lockbar as wide open as it would go, the detent ball dragged on the blade and made it very rough. Is that normal? it seems from the video when the lockbar is wedged open that it isn't. Did I just get a bad one?

My Mantra is as smooth as can be! No issues with the bearings, pivot, detent ball, etc. I have some knives that are really smooth but none are like my Mantra.

[4life]

The camera on my iPad isn't that great, but you can still make out the detents it left in the Ti

My washers actually have a split... but the good thing is after flattening out the washers, when I use a peg to hold lock bar open, the blade swings freely.
My mantra know is so smooth that even people who've never tried flippers before, are able to get it opened first try, and nearly every try. (Maybe 1 in 20 tries they fail)

[Evil D]

Holy crap man how did they get that bad to begin with? Maybe you guys are stronger than me or something lol. If you're tightening it down so much you're splitting the washer and denting the Ti on the other side that's probably too far lol.

[4life]

Haha when I heard that you had to tighten it without stripping it, sounded like that's a lot and naturally thought everyone would get to the same torque before screw gives and strips. When it felt like there's still plenty, it's not going to strip, I gave it a few more turns. Lol guess that's the result.

Spyderco use some real quality hardware, I felt that it's not going to strip and probably end up chewing the teeth if I tried any more.
One thing that could have helped was the screw driver I use, to take care of our knives we better get the best we can find even if it's some crazy $ for some little screw drivers lmao.
(I use ones made by Wiha)

To answer how they got that bad, the washer was from flattening them back out after the had severely cupped and formed around the bearings. :p

[Bodog]

I had this problem. It was really annoying. I took the washers out and they had little dents all around. I took a hammer, carefully flattened the washers, put them in the opposite way, and slightly tightened the pivot and played with the blade and then tightened a little more until it wouldn't tighten anymore. Then backed the pivot out to where the blade was centered and found that the blade didn't flip well at all and seemed very tight. So I took the washers out again and found that the dents had pretty much disappeared but now the washers were really, really cupped. So I put them in the opposite way and then tightened the blade to where it was centered. Played with it a bit and found the blade had moved from center a tiny bit. Tightened it a little bit to where the blade was centered again. Now the blade has really smooth action and flips well. I hate that the warranty is voided for doing such basic work on the knife that came a little less than acceptable from the factory. Sending it in seemed ridiculous because it's a known and identified problem with an identified fix that's easy to do.

But since the warranty was voided because I fixed such a simple problem, I went ahead and acid etched the blade. I have to say it looks good.

[Bodog]

But regarding the bearings, these aren't a very good example. I'd rather have PB washers, even on a flipper, unless whatever is going on with these gets resolved. Everything else about the knife is outstanding. But every other ball bearing pivot knife I've had has been better regarding this specific issue. Most knives on regular washers, too.

[dplafoll]

My washers would never stay right. So I took them out last week, and haven't looked back. Worst case is the bearings wear into the Ti, and I end up going somewhere to find some washers. But after taking them out, MAN.... this thing flips super nice.

[Bodog]

My washers would never stay right. So I took them out last week, and haven't looked back. Worst case is the bearings wear into the Ti, and I end up going somewhere to find some washers. But after taking them out, MAN.... this thing flips super nice.

Yeah, I tried that, left the blade perilously close to rubbing the handle and there was some pretty nasty slop when the blade was closed. But it opened A LOT better. I'll probably end up doing it, though. I've been spending all day opening and closing it and it's not getting much better if at all.

[dplafoll]

My washers would never stay right. So I took them out last week, and haven't looked back. Worst case is the bearings wear into the Ti, and I end up going somewhere to find some washers. But after taking them out, MAN.... this thing flips super nice.

Yeah, I tried that, left the blade perilously close to rubbing the handle and there was some pretty nasty slop when the blade was closed. But it opened A LOT better. I'll probably end up doing it, though. I've been spending all day opening and closing it and it's not getting much better if at all.

Huh. I haven't had any of that...

[paladin]

But regarding the bearings, these aren't a very good example. I'd rather have PB washers, even on a flipper, unless whatever is going on with these gets resolved. Everything else about the knife is outstanding. But every other ball bearing pivot knife I've had has been better regarding this specific issue. Most knives on regular washers, too.

phosphor bronze are not as sexy as captured bearings or ceramic thingamajigs...but they're simple, reliable and durable...there's a lot to be said for being reliable.

[Bodog]

But regarding the bearings, these aren't a very good example. I'd rather have PB washers, even on a flipper, unless whatever is going on with these gets resolved. Everything else about the knife is outstanding. But every other ball bearing pivot knife I've had has been better regarding this specific issue. Most knives on regular washers, too.

phosphor bronze are not as sexy as captured bearings or ceramic thingamajigs...but they're simple, reliable and durable...there's a lot to be said for being reliable.

My military is smoother than any bearing knife I've laid my hands on. Some bearing knives are faster but my military is as smooth as any Sebenza I've held and is noticeably faster. It also lends itself to many more opening methods. From here on I think I'll stick with the millie. Maybe I'll give a PM2 a long term shot. I thought the mantra would quench that thirst but maybe not. At first I was enamored with it but the bearings leave something to be desired. I got it where it's smooth and opening with the thumb hole is what I'd expect but the flipper, not so much. I'm not a believer in having my hand on the knife in a perfect position to open it. I'm more of a believer that no matter how I'm holding a knife I can find a way to open it and open it quickly.

[Sharp Guy]

I don't understand why you guys with bearing issues on your Mantras don't just send them in to Spyderco and give them the opportunity to correct the problem. I have a whole bunch of knives with PB washers and all are really smooth (although some more than others) but none can match my Mantra. I also happen to have a friend's Mantra here at the moment and his is great too. I get that bearings have more parts and therefore more opportunity for something to go wrong but when they're working as they should be they can be fabulous. If I paid for a knife with bearings and they weren't working right you can bet I'd be sending it back to the manufacturer to give them the opportunity to make it right. Nothing is perfect a 100% of the time but how are they're supposed to makes corrections to a problem if they aren't given the opportunity to see what's going on with these knives.

[Bodog]

I don't understand why you guys with bearing issues on your Mantras don't just send them in to Spyderco and give them the opportunity to correct the problem. I have a whole bunch of knives with PB washers and all are really smooth (although some more than others) but none can match my Mantra. I also happen to have a friend's Mantra here at the moment and his is great too. I get that bearings have more parts and therefore more opportunity for something to go wrong but when they're working as they should be they can be fabulous. If I paid for a knife with bearings and they weren't working right you can bet I'd be sending it back to the manufacturer to give them the opportunity to make it right. Nothing is perfect a 100% of the time but how are they're supposed to makes corrections to a problem if they aren't given the opportunity to see what's going on with these knives.

Seems that it's not just a few mantras and it seems that it's not limited to the mantra model. Maybe there should be a $5-$25 voucher with a new purchase to send it in should it need immediate repair?

I mean, the last spyderco I bought was a sprint PPT and the TiCN coating started flaking off on its own without even really being used. I'm not going to send it back just to have the option to have 40% taken off of MSRP at the spyderco store or get a faulty knife back. That's a pretty jacked up policy. A lot of other things I like about spyderco but not that.

As much as I hate to say it maybe I should just stop buying spyderco knives. The only really high end knives produced are purely ventures in keeping up with the Joneses and the sales don't do very well. People want working man knives, and I do too, but when some special opportunity comes up no one wants spyderco to do anything but produce what they've already been producing but in slightly different configurations. Instead of even trying to take a working man's knife and turn it into a thing of beauty they say it won't sell and isn't worth the tooling costs. But they'll produce something completely out of line from what people want from a spyderco. A HUGE knife like the tatanka, a HUGE knife like the K2, a really fat stub of a knife like the rubicon, or a beautiful and technologically great piece like the Nirvana but with an obtuse saber grind that is opposite of what people want from spyderco.

And of they produce a limited number of knives and you buy one and something is wrong with it, they give you the opportunity to let them keep the knife and you can buy another one at the same price you can get anywhere else or get the messed up knife back.

This is really starting to mess with me. I know that they can fix this issue, but then what? The paper thin and soft washers they use as a replacement will get cupped or bent again and then what? I need to send it in again to get some new washers? I need to spend shipping costs to get some washers that cost a penny? And I didn't do anything to screw with the washers to begin with? But to know that it's an easy and cheap fix I have to void the warranty? Or I need to go through the hassle of finding the exact or better replacement from a parts supplier?

I like the philosophy of what spyderco is trying to accomplish and I understand why spyderco has taken some of the stances it's taken, but in execution there's something lacking. Sal as a business owner is a really stand up guy. But the last couple of purchases I've made have been bunk and I have no recourse but to spend my money fixing their problems. I take issue with that. And that kind of sucks because spyderco is really the only big company willing and seemingly capable of producing knives meant to be comfortable when cutting. These little QC issues get old, especially when the costs and/or time to repair them fall on my shoulders.

And to be honest, I've been using my military for going on two year now without a backspacer because through normal use the screws stripped and fell out. Never sent it back because I never felt like i should have. Spyderco should have sent a replacement backspacer and some new screw back then. Now they should send some hardened washers for the mantra. And if they cannot replace the blade of the sprint PPT, they should offer a replacement knife of equal MSRP value. But none of that is going to happen so why bother.

[paladin]

My military is smoother than any bearing knife I've laid my hands on. Some bearing knives are faster but my military is as smooth as any Sebenza I've held and is noticeably faster. It also lends itself to many more opening methods. From here on I think I'll stick with the millie. Maybe I'll give a PM2 a long term shot. I thought the mantra would quench that thirst but maybe not. At first I was enamored with it but the bearings leave something to be desired. I got it where it's smooth and opening with the thumb hole is what I'd expect but the flipper, not so much. I'm not a believer in having my hand on the knife in a perfect position to open it. I'm more of a believer that no matter how I'm holding a knife I can find a way to open it and open it quickly.

Keep on preachin! :D

I also appreciate the "infinitely adjustable pivot" of most Military models.

I'm not an old fart but I'm old enough to eat cornbread without choking and I can decide how I want my pivot dialed in to individualize my "deployment experience" :cool:

We don't need no stinking stepped pivots!

[Sharp Guy]

Seems that it's not just a few mantras and it seems that it's not limited to the mantra model. Maybe there should be a $5-$25 voucher with a new purchase to send it in should it need immediate repair?

I'm sure it's not just a few Mantras with this issue but I'd be willing to bet there are far more good examples out there than there are ones with bearing issues. I guess I just don't understand why people would rather complain about their problems instead of letting Spyderco take care of it. I haven't had to send anything in for warranty repair yet (I will soon) but, from what I've read from others, you ship the knife to Spyderco and if there's a manufacturing issue or material defect they'll repair or replace the knife, ship it back to you, and often they add a little cash to the shipment to help reimburse some of the initial shipping cost.

I mean, the last spyderco I bought was a sprint PPT and the TiCN coating started flaking off on its own without even really being used. I'm not going to send it back just to have the option to have 40% taken off of MSRP at the spyderco store or get a faulty knife back. That's a pretty jacked up policy. A lot of other things I like about spyderco but not that.

Not sure how it works with discontinued models but I was under the impression that they offered a much better deal than that on non-repairable disco'd items. More like the amount of the last retail price of the item in question off the retail price of any current model in stock. I could be wrong there since I haven't had to send any disco'd items in for repair yet. I guess I'll find out soon enough since I brand new but discontinued item that is having and issue.

[Bodog]

Seems that it's not just a few mantras and it seems that it's not limited to the mantra model. Maybe there should be a $5-$25 voucher with a new purchase to send it in should it need immediate repair?

I'm sure it's not just a few Mantras with this issue but I'd be willing to bet there are far more good examples out there than there are ones with bearing issues. I guess I just don't understand why people would rather complain about their problems instead of letting Spyderco take care of it. I haven't had to send anything in for warranty repair yet (I will soon) but, from what I've read from others, you ship the knife to Spyderco and if there's a manufacturing issue or material defect they'll repair or replace the knife, ship it back to you, and often they add a little cash to the shipment to help reimburse some of the initial shipping cost.

I mean, the last spyderco I bought was a sprint PPT and the TiCN coating started flaking off on its own without even really being used. I'm not going to send it back just to have the option to have 40% taken off of MSRP at the spyderco store or get a faulty knife back. That's a pretty jacked up policy. A lot of other things I like about spyderco but not that.

Not sure how it works with discontinued models but I was under the impression that they offered a much better deal than that on non-repairable disco'd items. More like the amount of the last retail price of the item in question off the retail price of any current model in stock. I could be wrong there since I haven't had to send any disco'd items in for repair yet. I guess I'll find out soon enough since I brand new but discontinued item that is having and issue.

I'm only going off of their stated policies and through word here and on BF how these things normally get handled. The only time it seems things get handled any better than by the blanket policy is when Sal steps in.

As it stands I have three Spydercos that need warranty work and it's due to manufacturing defects. Either steel that's too soft on the backspacers or washers or TiCN that was somehow deposited incorrectly. Don't know, but I shouldn't be on the hook to have those repaired. It shouldn't even be a doubt in my mind that these issues would be corrected without me having to foot the bill. That's why it gets to me. There should be no doubt. There should be a replacement backspacer and washers on the way and a replacement PPT or something of equal value after they receive it. It's not like I can repair TiCN here at my house.

If they offered the MSRP to be discounted from another knife's MSRP for the PPT I wouldn't have an issue. And if they refunded the shipping costs and fixed the other knives for free I wouldn't have a problem. But their policies don't state that that'll happen, not for sure anyway, and especially now because I opened the knives up to find the problem. All they have to say is "nope, warranty voided" even though anyone can see what I did to open the knives had zero impact on what caused the problem. And with two of the knives they're pretty common problems. I understand the PPT issue is probably pretty uncommon. I understand them wanted to take a look at that one.

[Bill1170]

Bodog,

Have you tried sending any of your three defective knives to Spyderco? From what I learn here, they don't send out repair parts, but they do take good care of their customers, especially if product was defective. I'd give it a try.