Exotic Japanese steels

[rennet]

Since people seemed to love 52100 so much, I'd like to see some uncladded white #1 in a knife that will really take advantage of the steel's ability to hold a super fine edge.
Something like a White #1 Nilakka at 64-65HRC would be amazing.

[Steel_Drake]

Since people seemed to love 52100 so much, I'd like to see some uncladded white #1 in a knife that will really take advantage of the steel's ability to hold a super fine edge.
Something like a White #1 Nilakka at 64-65HRC would be amazing.

As much as I'd love White #1, a thin blade geometry like a Nilakka applied by power grinding is a case where I would very much prefer a high speed steel like XVC11 to minimize the chance of the edge being burned. I would love something in a high speed steel with as close to a full zero grind as possible and with some form of hand guard (unlike the Nilakka).

[tripscheck'em]

Hi all,

It seems that there is interest in more Japanese steels? I've read some recent posts showing this. (Like Killer on the Delica steel thread [blade forums] ) So I would be interested in knowing what steels made in Japan you would like to see / use and in what models?

sal

Or hap-72

Might be easiest since Spyderco already did business with them re: hap-40

What I really want is zdp-189 run to maximum hardness, 70rc. That would be interesting.

[tripscheck'em]

Exotic? Not sure how much more exotic it gets than Hap72?? Hap40 Compared to Hap72..

Well I assume it would just an itensification of hap-40's characteristics, extreme wear resistance, hard to sharpen but near burr-proof, massive edge retention on synthetic material

kinda like going from s30v to s90v, which is a dramatic difference. I much prefer s90v bc even though s30v has less edge retention, it's just as hard to sharpen to a polish bc of the vanadium. IMO, if you go vanadium at all, go to the fullest extent.

[tripscheck'em]

Since people seemed to love 52100 so much, I'd like to see some uncladded white #1 in a knife that will really take advantage of the steel's ability to hold a super fine edge.
Something like a White #1 Nilakka at 64-65HRC would be amazing.

Uncladded white steel in a folder would be a corrosion nightmare

I hope Spyderco continues to issue non-stainless folders *with* a clad. Speaking for myself, I really hate working with a rusty pivot and then having to unnecessarily void the warranty.

[bearfacedkiller]

Exotic? Not sure how much more exotic it gets than Hap72?? Hap40 Compared to Hap72..

Well I assume it would just an itensification of hap-40's characteristics, extreme wear resistance, hard to sharpen but near burr-proof, massive edge retention on synthetic material

kinda like going from s30v to s90v, which is a dramatic difference. I much prefer s90v bc even though s30v has less edge retention, it's just as hard to sharpen to a polish bc of the vanadium. IMO, if you go vanadium at all, go to the fullest extent.

HAP72 looks a lot more like Maxamet than it does S90V.

[awa54]

Since people seemed to love 52100 so much, I'd like to see some uncladded white #1 in a knife that will really take advantage of the steel's ability to hold a super fine edge.
Something like a White #1 Nilakka at 64-65HRC would be amazing.

OK, IMO Nilakka would be an excellent application for White in a folder, though I'd still be inclined to go for cladding... my objection to White steel in a Sprint is that if you HT it for max hardness it won't stand up to harsh EDC, but if you pull the temper down below RC 63 then what's the point? Most Spyderco blades aren't delicate enough to scare people off using them for tough cutting tasks, but also aren't so thick that an ultra-hard simple HC like Hitachi White would survive by having beefy edge geometry (like garden machetes, hatchets, etc. do).

I'd also go for a Kiwi 4 in white!

Well I assume it would just an itensification of hap-40's characteristics, extreme wear resistance, hard to sharpen but near burr-proof, massive edge retention on synthetic material

kinda like going from s30v to s90v, which is a dramatic difference. I much prefer s90v bc even though s30v has less edge retention, it's just as hard to sharpen to a polish bc of the vanadium. IMO, if you go vanadium at all, go to the fullest extent.

Interesting, I just posted about getting an annoyingly persistent burr that almost qualifies as wire edge when using synthetic water stones to sharpen HAP40, I also consider it to be a very easy to sharpen steel... when using stones that allow you to sharpen with the edge toward the stone as opposed to drawing away from the stone as required with water stones. I've also never gotten a satisfying polished edge on S90V, aggressive medium grit finish; no problem, but not so much past 1000 grit

[ZrowsN1s]

Sal, I love hawkbills and I'm always looking to add variety to the collection, so far vg-10 and h-1 are the only flavors in the spyderco lineup. Any of the reverse-s or hawkbills in a different steel would be welcomed. And if you are working on an SE H1 Hawkbill D'Fly, a great companion piece would be a PE exotic steel version.

[Cambertree]

Like Lance I tend to chase that upper tier of edge fineness and stability, and favour steels that give a good sharpening response over those that maintain a 'working edge' for a very long time.
I'm ok with doing a little edge refinement and resharpening at the end of each working day or while out camping or hunting, so while I like all the steels I've tried so far, in their place and for different reasons, I've developed a taste for steels with a fine grained microstructure and a good balance of qualities rather than extreme wear resistance at the cost of other properties.
Along that line, although there are some Japanese PM steels like OU31 and R2/SG2 I'd be mildly interested in, I would prefer to see some of the matrix high speed steels like DRM3/MDS7 and DC53/MDS9. The latter two steels seem to parallel Bohler Uddeholm's Sleipner steel.
Also, as Mastiff has requested, HAP5R looks interesting.

These steels also reflect what seems to be a different philosophy of industrial steel design in Japan which generally seems to favour lower carbide volume, less vanadium, and hard cobalt enhanced matrices to reduce carbide tear out on fine edges.
Do any of you have any experience with the above Japanese steels? I understand Spyderco has tested OU31, and I'd be curious what Sal thinks of it.
Having said all that, I'd probably be just as happy with another iteration of Aogami Super going into the permanent lineup like ZDP189. I prefer cladding of carbon steels for long term durability, the only request I would make is that the cladding be run a little harder for scratch resistance. The Stretch, Dragonfly and Calys would be my favoured models.
The SpydieChef, Enuff and Cooks knife/Santoku would all be interesting candidates for the Superblue treatment.
Idle thought: any interest in chisel ground kata-ha laminates? A sheepfoot Enuff in Superblue, with left and right handed versions, anyone?

[Cambertree]

Re: the above, here is some interesting material on Japanese matrix HSS.

http://www.matrixhighspeedsteels.com/ne ... ticle8.htm

http://www.matrixhighspeedsteels.com/3_31_concept.htm

http://www.matrixhighspeedsteels.com/DRM3.htm

[Deadboxhero]

Ah, this is where the exotic steel is chosen!

on the spyderco forum :)

I must say,

not a fan of the hap72, or the xcv11

I feel that the beauty of these exotic steels is the high amounts of edge holding relative to ease of sharpening

if we are looking for steels with raw wear resistant power

America already has that in abundance without rival

we have cpm 10v, we have cpm 110v here already

not to mention the xvc 11 is the none pm equivalent of cpm m4, a clumpy carbide nightmare.

Id be more interested to get steels that are more exotic that I can never get my hands on

like white #1 clad in 420j2
SLD magic (A2 with much more carbon)
SRS-15 ( stainless M2 steel with more carbon)
YXR7 ( a balanced eutectoid steel that should be close to 3v in toughness with alloying similar to M2)
Cobalt Special, Super VG10 more edge holding better sharpening
SG-2 a better sharpening Elmax with less wear resistance

[bearfacedkiller]

Welcome to the forum Deadbox!

[awa54]

Cladding and HT...

I know that in traditional (all carbon steel) laminates, you attain shock resistance by using a lower carbon steel as the body material and high edge hardness by using an inset strip of higher carbon steel, this works in part because both metals are hardened and tempered by the same quenching and relief processes, just at varying maximum hardness, due to the different carbon content.

Now what happens when you use a water a hardening simple HC steel like Hitachi white, with an air hardening stainless cladding layer?

Obviously there are compromise heat treatments that don't cause the cladding layer to warp, yet still correctly harden the core steel, but are they too much of a compromise? I've heard several tales of bent Super Blue Sprints... It might be interesting to see a really performance oriented laminate, with cladding like 5160 or some other very shock resistant spring steel as the outer layer.

[Deadboxhero]

Thanks Killer :)

Glad to be with my fellow spydie guys

[bh49]

Deadboxhero,

Welcome to the Forum. Enjoy your stay.

[Deadboxhero]

Thank you :) will do!

It's sprint run season again and I've got the fever :)

[anagarika]

Hi DBH,

Welcome and let's see which one Sal decides.

I'm still thinking why not a special run of VG10 at it's max hardness, with cladding if needed. I might be in the minority though. :o

[sal]

Lotsa good stuff so far. It gives me alot to work with. Thanx much!

sal

[AMerryKen]

Cowry-x and/or Cowry-y in the Military model platform.

Also, if I may ask, Mr. Glesser, what are your personal thoughts and opinion on these steels in particular and the possibility of these combinations becoming reality?

Ken

[Deadboxhero]

Hi DBH,

Welcome and let's see which one Sal decides.

I'm still thinking why not a special run of VG10 at it's max hardness, with cladding if needed. I might be in the minority though. :o

Sup Chris :)
Haha
Vg10? Come on! :)
at least make it Cobalt Special Steel it already has a higher working hardness at 61-62 and is has the same great vg10 favor with more edge holding :)

Jeez the anticipation is killing me what will he choose!