MT24P - Mule Team Fixed Blade with Maxamet

[Ankerson]

This is great news, only thing that continues to bother me though is shipping to Alaska, it doesn't cost any more to ship here than any of the other 49 States in the Union so I don't understand the $15 surcharge

I could be wrong, but the way I'm reading it, you pay $15, not $15 more than CONUS. You pay $15, the rest of us pay the "standard shipping rate" (I think that's $9, but there's no easy way of finding out). Spyderco ships by UPS for CONUS. AK, HI, and PR go by USPS, probably Priority Mail, and it probably costs a bit more, but way less than if they sent it UPS Air.

Domestic Orders:
Domestic Shipping in the Continental United States: Standard Shipping rates apply.
Alaska, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico Shipping: USPS $15.00

Actually it come USPS unless UPS has access to my locked mail box, either way its not that big a deal, I was just in a whiny mood :p , I just get tired of being treated like an outcast living in the Farnorth when it actually costs no more than any other state, flat rate is flat rate.

They have to fly everything in... Not like they can truck things to AK, HI, PR so it will cost more no matter what.

Very true Anderson, there is no UPS ground to AK, I'm just saying that USPS flat rate shipping is exactly the same to AK as the rest of the lower 48. I've encountered this with other vendors who only use UPS ground, some wont even accept your order because of it, shoot there are even some private sellers who only ship lower 48, its just frustrating sometimes that there are still folks out there that don't understand that there is zero cost difference shipping to AK. I don't begrudge SFO for there policy and have in the past and I'm sure in the future continue to by from the SFO for pieces I desire. It is after all a small price to pay for living in the last frontier. Maybe when I place my order for a couple of these new MT's I'll even add a Calendar (if they still have any) even though we're over half way through the year. :) :spyder:

Exactly. :)

Flat Rate USPS is the same no matter what State it's shipped to. :cool:

I always use the Flat Rate boxes. :D

[The Deacon]

This is great news, only thing that continues to bother me though is shipping to Alaska, it doesn't cost any more to ship here than any of the other 49 States in the Union so I don't understand the $15 surcharge

I could be wrong, but the way I'm reading it, you pay $15, not $15 more than CONUS. You pay $15, the rest of us pay the "standard shipping rate" (I think that's $9, but there's no easy way of finding out). Spyderco ships by UPS for CONUS. AK, HI, and PR go by USPS, probably Priority Mail, and it probably costs a bit more, but way less than if they sent it UPS Air.

Domestic Orders:
Domestic Shipping in the Continental United States: Standard Shipping rates apply.
Alaska, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico Shipping: USPS $15.00

Actually it come USPS unless UPS has access to my locked mail box, either way its not that big a deal, I was just in a whiny mood :p , I just get tired of being treated like an outcast living in the Farnorth when it actually costs no more than any other state, flat rate is flat rate.

I get moods like that too, :o but you may have misread what I wrote.

My point was, it would only "cost the same" if Spyderco shipped everywhere by Priority Mail. They don't. Shipments to "the lower 48" go UPS ground. Only those bound for AK, HI, and PR (and probably other US possessions like the Virgin Islands) go Priority Mail, and I suspect UPS ground shipment costs less than a Priority Mail medium flat rate box. If it's any consolation, I'd bet you'll get yours faster than those of us living on the east coast.

[Ankerson]

Priority Mail is a lot faster than UPS Ground.

One could get their package 3 times USPS PM vs one time UPS Ground. :D

But then I have seen Spyderco Ship UPS 3 Day and that is a lot better. :)

[Ankerson]

Thanx Jim.

Thanks, just trying to keep things real. :)

Too many variables involved here to even guess at this point beyond what Carpenter stated in their Data Sheet and even that isn't about knife blades. That is more about what the steel was designed to do in the industry as a hot work tool steel.

At this point we don't know anything or can even speculate because we just don't know what Spyderco did with their HT, what they focused on exactly.

Or even what hardness range this thing will be in.

Did they optimize it for max performance, or more of a balance?

What thickness behind the edge is this thing?

What is the edge geometry on it going to be?

What's the spine thickness?

We just don't know at this point.

If what I am posting seems conservative it is and was ment to be.

We just don't know what had to be done with the processing to get it to work at knife blade thickness.

That said it will be one of the more interesting Mule Teams I think. :spyder:

[MacLaren]

Would be really nice if Sal could possibly send you one(Ankerson) for testing....

[Ankerson]

Would be really nice if Sal could possibly send you one for testing....

I would be interested to see how it cuts, how aggressive it is or not, just that would tell me a lot about what is going on with it.

I learned a lot from testing CPM S125V in a few blades, it's not as aggressive as one would think it would be as an example.

Compared to steels like S110V and 10V.

Not to say S125V isn't aggressive because it is and it keeps the bite for a very long time, but not as aggressive as S110V and especially 10V/K294.

[Cujobob]

Would be really nice if Sal could possibly send you one for testing....

I would be interested to see how it cuts, how aggressive it is or not, just that would tell me a lot about what is going on with it.

I learned a lot from testing CPM S125V in a few blades, it's not as aggressive as one would think it would be as an example.

Compared to steels like S110V and 10V.

Could you clarify what is meant by aggressive?

[Ankerson]

Would be really nice if Sal could possibly send you one for testing....

I would be interested to see how it cuts, how aggressive it is or not, just that would tell me a lot about what is going on with it.

I learned a lot from testing CPM S125V in a few blades, it's not as aggressive as one would think it would be as an example.

Compared to steels like S110V and 10V.

Could you clarify what is meant by aggressive?

Something one has to feel and hear really in comparing different steels, hard to explain it really.

One of the side effects of testing a lot of different steels etc and different HT protocols over the years I suppose.

That's using the same media, stones to sharpen with and all to the same level of sharpness etc.

That said it is noticeable to me.

Talked to more than a few others about this over the years and they can understand it because they are doing the same sort of things I am.

Have to have the feel for it.

[paladin]

Carpenter Steel says they consistently get HRC 70 hardness out of this steel, and that it still holds about HRC 63 at 1000F....

I think we've found the blade for our first manned trip to Mercury...now just for the rest of the kit :eek:

[Nate]

I remember that statement when it was posted, it was then and still is completely delusional.

Why?


For context:

As Spyderco tends to be pushed towards very high carbide mules and they work with carpenter then this is the obvious choice : http://cartech.ides.com/datasheet.aspx?i=101&E=84

Maxamet is an extreme alloy, for comparison, it is to 10V what S90V is to 420J2. Maxamet is used when HSS like M4 fail because they are too soft or wear too fast - just consider that for a matter of perspective.

In industry it has very strong advantages because it can be used where traditional alloys wear too fast or take too much deformation but ceramic fails by fracture, as an example :

"Roll-Kraft, the world leader in tube and pipe mill rolls, evaluated Maxamet alloy in an abrasive tube forming application at a customer's plant. Normally, the costly tungsten carbide rolls in this application would produce 250,000 to 300,000 ft. of tubing. AISI D2 rolls typically produce about 100,000 ft. before rework is required.

Roll-Kraft's Director of Operations, Dave Jenkins, reported that the roll that had been made from Maxamet alloy was pulled from service after 320,000 ft. of production and found to have only 0.003" wear. Roll-Kraft was able to manufacture the rolls made from Maxamet alloy without difficulty as this alloy was found to be machinable. The tooling was reconditioned and put back in service on the production line."

Ref : http://www.cartech.com/techarticles.aspx?id=1588

As a knife - it would set a limit for hardness (as it is 70+ HRC) and wear resistance . In regards to sharpening, don't be concerned about that, I have ground 121REX (a similar CPM steel) on regular benchstones, there is no need for CBN or diamonds.

You know, specifically, so we know you're keeping it real and not just throwing shade. :cool:

[clovisc]

This is great news, only thing that continues to bother me though is shipping to Alaska, it doesn't cost any more to ship here than any of the other 49 States in the Union so I don't understand the $15 surcharge

+1.

[Ankerson]

I remember that statement when it was posted, it was then and still is completely delusional.

Why?


For context:

As Spyderco tends to be pushed towards very high carbide mules and they work with carpenter then this is the obvious choice : http://cartech.ides.com/datasheet.aspx?i=101&E=84

Maxamet is an extreme alloy, for comparison, it is to 10V what S90V is to 420J2. Maxamet is used when HSS like M4 fail because they are too soft or wear too fast - just consider that for a matter of perspective.

In industry it has very strong advantages because it can be used where traditional alloys wear too fast or take too much deformation but ceramic fails by fracture, as an example :

"Roll-Kraft, the world leader in tube and pipe mill rolls, evaluated Maxamet alloy in an abrasive tube forming application at a customer's plant. Normally, the costly tungsten carbide rolls in this application would produce 250,000 to 300,000 ft. of tubing. AISI D2 rolls typically produce about 100,000 ft. before rework is required.

Roll-Kraft's Director of Operations, Dave Jenkins, reported that the roll that had been made from Maxamet alloy was pulled from service after 320,000 ft. of production and found to have only 0.003" wear. Roll-Kraft was able to manufacture the rolls made from Maxamet alloy without difficulty as this alloy was found to be machinable. The tooling was reconditioned and put back in service on the production line."

Ref : http://www.cartech.com/techarticles.aspx?id=1588

As a knife - it would set a limit for hardness (as it is 70+ HRC) and wear resistance . In regards to sharpening, don't be concerned about that, I have ground 121REX (a similar CPM steel) on regular benchstones, there is no need for CBN or diamonds.

You know, specifically, so we know you're keeping it real and not just throwing shade. :cool:

Why don't we just see what it will really do once they are actually out before we start speculating....

That is as nice and direct as I can put this and still post it on the forum......

I am not predicting anything because the industry use and knife blades are two very different things.

[Xplorer]

I am not predicting anything because the industry use and knife blades are two very different things.

Precisely. The treatment process and hardness of the cutting tools used in those tests will most certainly not be the same as the treatment process for the knife blades we will get to test. How one heat treats a steel can have more effect on the end result than the chemistry of the steel itself. The potential for this steel is really exciting because it can get soooo hard, but until we get the finished product from Spyderco we don't know squat. :cool:

[Nate]

Why don't we just see what it will really do once they are actually out before we start speculating....

That is as nice and direct as I can put this and still post it on the forum......

I am not predicting anything because the industry use and knife blades are two very different things.

I've got it.

You don't disagree with any of the support or context actually given for the analogy, which is about its use in industry. It's the things you "know" he meant to imply.


Eta:

In general I don't tend to imply things, if I wanted to make that statement I would have just said it.

Rofl, the sly dog... Amiright? :rolleyes:

[paladin]

This may prove to be the first Spyderco I swallow my pride and send to Golden for the complimentary lifetime sharpening....but not after I try first...

[PayneTrain]

This may prove to be the first Spyderco I swallow my pride and send to Golden for the complimentary lifetime sharpening....but not after I try first...

Haha nah, I don't think it will be that bad. Ceramics are still way harder! I don't anticipate it'll take too much more patience. Though yeeees, I too can only speculate. Watch me totally eat my words after the first sharpening gives me carpal tunnel. :rolleyes:

[bdblue]

For those who have the K390 Mule Team ... can do some nice comparison testing

I'm curious since you brought it up... how would you anticipate Maxamet will compare with K390?

[Bodog]

For those who have the K390 Mule Team ... can do some nice comparison testing

I'm curious since you brought it up... how would you anticipate Maxamet will compare with K390?

I've compared 15V and Rex 121. Both do what's claimed. Cutting stuff with a knife does not generate enough heat for it to really truly matter if it's a hot or cold work steel. In normal usage I think you'll probably be as impressed with one as you would the other.

By the way, 15V, A11, 10V, K294, and K390 are all basically the same class of steel. Rex 121 and Maxamet are similar to each other. They'll cut aggressively for a long time, just don't beat the crap out of em.

The hardness of Rex 121, even at 68 RC, was a pain with SiC stones but doable. 15V at 64 RC was the same. Both were considerably easier with diamonds, of course.

If I had to choose between a K390 and Maxamet mule it'd be a tough choice but I think I'd go with Maxamet just because of the type of knife the mule is. 10V and K390 can probably be taken thinner than what the mules are. Rex 121 and Maxamet at 68+ might be too brittle to support a knife thinner than a mule. The mule isn't thin. It's not thick, but it's not thin. Just about right for a high hardness knife loaded with carbide volume. Just my opinion.

[PayneTrain]

Great analysis of your experience Bodog! Thanks for sharing!

[Ankerson]

For those who have the K390 Mule Team ... can do some nice comparison testing

I'm curious since you brought it up... how would you anticipate Maxamet will compare with K390?

I really can't because we don't know what Spyderco did so I will wait and see.

Not even going to try and guess on this one, I have no opinion.

It's going to all come down to the HT and what protocol they used/developed and how much Tungsten Carbide Volume there is and if that really makes a difference and by how much.

There are other factors too, but that will be one of the main factors I believe.

I don't think Spyderco would put out a blade that the edge crumbles or falls apart so I will take that as a given that it will hold together.

Like I said it will be interesting. :D