What steel stays hair whittling sharp the longest?

[anagarika]

JD,

I'm still getting to know ZDP character. Please share, if it's possible to get your result with Spyderco UF after new DMT EE & worn DMT EE?
What's the DPS?
Will Endura ZDP be similar to the Caly that you have?

[jerryh]

Just an observation. Vivi asked, 'What steel stays hair whittling sharp the longest?' In looking at the responses - some have said, ',,,it depends on what you're cutting (certainly true), some have indicated that, ',,,one's knife sharpening skill,,' is a determining factor (also true). Without doubt those two factors - and more - contribute to the answer Vivi is seeking. Having said that, product testing, no matter the product, 'requires' that all the entrants into the test 'must' have an equal 'starting' position. That is, all the knives will be sharpened to an equal degree of sharpness (as equal as possible) -- all the knives will be required to cut the same material & the same amount of material. Any 'test' that does not expose all entrants equally will not provide unbiased information/results. Testing in this manner helps 'reduce' subjective conclusions. To get the best answer possible, Vivi might have asked their question this way, 'Given what I'm using my knife for, what steel will stay hair whittling sharp the longest?' The reason the, what I'm using my knife for, portion of the question is so important is --- 'the very same knife will need to be sharpened differently when slicing thin strips of pork belly than whittling a wooden pocketknife for a grandchild.' If acceptance of the above testing protocol is observed and the many data points available are captured then it becomes a matter of asking the question properly to provide a conclusive answer. It may be impossible to remove all subjectivity from any conclusion, but removal of subjectivity will further one's odds of getting what they are looking for. So, Vivi's question was valid (it just needed a little further detail).

With Respect to All,
Jerry

[Surfingringo]

If I use one of my pocket knives, I sharpen it before I go to bed that same day.

I do not care about working edges at all.

What I care about is the upper 10% of edge life. I'm talking freshly sharpened and whittling slivers off a single thin hair, to still scraping off arm hair without much discomfort.

Anything past that, I don't care. I never let my knives get that dull. If I'm ever going to be cutting enough things that it will get past that point, I either have a dedicated tool I don't care about (box cutter) or I brought a sharpening device with me.

So, that being said, what steels would work best for me?

Hi Vivi, I think I understand exactly what you are asking because your experience and sharpening protocol and requirements match mine closely. Many on here have suggested something like s110v but I don't really believe that is what you are looking for. The biggest factors in keeping a steel in that upper range of sharpens will be attainable sharpness and ease of sharpening. Like me, you are going to touch your edge up daily to keep it hair splitting sharp so there is really no need to use a steel that will excel at lower sharpness edge retention at the expense of ease of sharpening and attainable sharpness.

I am looking for balance in an edc steel. By balance, I mean a steel that will get screaming sharp with minimal effort and has enough edge stability and wear resistance to get me through the day and still be face shaving sharp. Obviously, the requirements will depend on what type of work you do with your edc on a daily basis, but for me, steels like cpm154, s30v, m4 and hap40 hit that sweet spot between edge retention and edge taking. Hap40 is currently my favorite of the bunch. I recently got my first knife in zdp189 and am testing it now. It takes a very nice edge but takes more passes to get it to that high level of sharpness. I will see over the coming weeks if there is enough advantage in that upper level of edge retention we are discussing to justify the extra time spent sharpening.

[VashHash]

I feel ZDP would definitely work for this from personal experience of actually shaving my face with it several times and also from a few years of edc. Of course i tend to maintain the edge pretty well on it to make sure it keeps this level of performance. I've since purchased an actual straight razor and it's a world of difference but i still use the ZDP stretch for touch ups. Of course i couldn't tell you anything about DPS or anything technical other than using the DMT extra extra fine stone to finish it and bare leather stropping after. I have thinned the edge a little from factory too.

[anagarika]

VashHash,

It might be my skill is lacking but I found 8Cr (Resilience) and VG10 are easier to get face shaving than ZDP. I'm still learning ZDP though.

Lance,

Haven't really resharpened my HAP40 so I don't know, I found Superblue even easier. On top of that, Bluntcut's 52100, AEBL & CruForgeV, but for Spyderco, VG10 & Superblue are top.

Have only tried Spydies in M4, VG10, SB, ZDP & 8Cr.

[bearfacedkiller]

I am eager to hear your opinions on ZDP Lance. I have very similar sharpening habits as you and Vivi are describing. I prefer the middle of the road steels as well but really like ZDP. It is a very unique steel and I like the results I get better than S110V in regards to sharpening, edge retention and maintaining a high level of sharpness. S110V is tougher and more stain resistant but when it comes to both cutting and sharpening I prefer the ZDP over it. HAP40, M4, Cruwear and other tool steels are what seem to really float my boat. I NEED to get my hands on some 10V though. I haven't tried anything like that yet.

[ZrowsN1s]

I too am obsessed with sharpness vivi. My sharpness scale starts at razor and goes up from there. I agree with surfingringo s110v gets sharp and stays sharp probably the longest out of all my knives, but it is hard to sharpen and it's the "working edge" that really shines with this steel, so it's probably not what you are looking for (it's a great steel for people that don't have time or dont want to sharpen often). And while i really like vg10, i think what you want is a super steel. I would recommend any of spyderco's ZDP-189 offerings as they will be the easiest to find, and really zdp is about as good as super steel gets. If you crave the expensive and hard to find, there are some superblue's and hap40's at BlazinBlades.com and soonerstateknives.com. There is also a CPM M4 military that will be exclusively available from bladeHQ in the near future. Hap40 is awesome stuff, ZDP-189 is a must own for anyone who likes sharp. Hope this helped. Also if you're not stropping and polishing your edge, you should be.

[VashHash]

VashHash,

It might be my skill is lacking but I found 8Cr (Resilience) and VG10 are easier to get face shaving than ZDP. I'm still learning ZDP though.

Lance,

Haven't really resharpened my HAP40 so I don't know, I found Superblue even easier. On top of that, Bluntcut's 52100, AEBL & CruForgeV, but for Spyderco, VG10 & Superblue are top.

Have only tried Spydies in M4, VG10, SB, ZDP & 8Cr.

A lot of steels are easier to sharpen but in my opinion ZDP really shines with a really nice fine edge and it holds it for awhile. At least if you're worried about that hair shaving sharpness. I'm not sure what exactly the original poster is using their knife for though.

[vivi]

Thanks for all the responses! Been informative reading it.

A little more info:

My sharpening equipment consists of an XX course DMT bench stone, a DMT fine, spyderco sharp maker, spyderco ultrafine benchstone, leather strop loaded with regular buffing compound, and various grits of sandpaper with different mousepad jigs.

My knives that see the most use are my DLC coated PE Para 2 and PE Pacific Salt that I've owned for years (Older model with the more squared off clip). Both knives have at least half a decade of regular wear, and have been ground much thinner than the factory edge angles.

The Para 2 I thinned out with the DMT XX course to the 10-12 degree per side range. Polished the bevel with the DMT fine, then applied a roughly 15 degree per side micro bevel with the Spyderco UF stone, and finished with 2 stokes per side on the strop.

The Pacific Salt I reground to give it a pointier tip and thinner primary grind. I layed it flat to the stone on the hollow grind part until I turned it into a flat saber ground knife, then reground the edge bevel to be thinner too. The edge is a little thinner than the Para 2's. I sharpen this one the same way as the Para 2 except I skip the microbevel on the UF stone, so the edge is finished on the DMT fine (Roughly 1.200 grit I think) then stropped twice per side.

The S30V and H1 perform a little differently. Obviously the H1 is rust proof and the S30V is just stainless. Beyond that, I feel they get to similar levels of sharpness, but the H1 doesn't seem to have as good of slicing aggression, especially long term. This is one reason I finish it at a lower grit than the Para 2. Either way, finishing both edges at the same grit, whether the DMT fine or UF Spyderco stone, the S30V Para 2 holds its hair whittling to cleanly shaving sharpness longer than the H1 Pacific Salt.

I've had good results with ZDP189 at low angles in the past. I don't know if its the high RC value, but it always took an exceptionally sharp edge for me. I'd like to get another ZDP189 knife, they don't offer any of the models I'm currently interested in with that steel though.

I have a VG10 Police 3 I carried for a while too, I like that steel. For me I think it takes just a slightly sharper edge than S30V, but it doesn't last as long cutting abrasive materials. It's a trade off I like though.

As for what I cut, nothing too out of the ordinary. Usually plastic bags and packaging, some cardboard (But not tons), and other EDC type stuff.

[NJMS]

First post here, great forum. Been lurking a little while.

This topic is me all over. I love that upper 5% of wicked sharp edge retention. I've posted a little over on BF but I sold my S110V knives because they didn't hold that fine edge any differently to S30V in my use.

My main use would be regularly EDC like food & cardboard but not in high volumes. I just don't need that long lasting working edge on a folder. Fixed blades I take hunting, yes - the longer it'll cut well the better (loving my 3V GSO 4.1).

Now a scary sharp edge on a folder...... I'll take that as long as I can get it to last. Call me more of a knife fiddler, I'm always flipping away and closing just watching TV etc. And I like to feel that sharp bite in the edge.

I know most will not agree and say I'm wasting my time but I just love me a polished edge. I use a edge pro apex with Sigma power select II stones. Mostly to 6000grit but sometimes to 13000. Mostly to 15 dps but for some 18dps.They push cut wickedly after that treatment.
I'll just touch up if required and I'm short on time with a lansky turn box on the fine white rods, and a small amount on the strop. OR just with a strop if the edge is still keen.

I actually like S30V, seems to perform well on my Sage 1 and I carry that knife a lot, easy to strop. XHP seems similar on my Chaparral but it doesn't get used hard at all. My GB2 and Mantra in M4 steel are next level again. Seems to hold a fine edge really well, better than S110V in my experience so far (I did try a course edge on S110V with a little better results but not epic). M4 also seems easy to strop back to wickedness where as I didn't have much luck with a strop on S110V. I have a CTS-204p Domino. Haven't cut a heap with that but it's still hair poping sharp and so far at least on par with M4, I'm guessing it might outperform it a tad. Not sure I'll notice the difference to be honest.
Just received a ZDP-189 Dragonfly 2, great little laser so far. Seems to touch up with heaps of bite straight off the white rods and only a swipe or two on the strop.

I wish I jumped on the Hap40 wagon but I was spending $ elsewhere unfortunately. It sounds like a great steel.

Looking forward to more time to play with the great knives and steels spyderco offers. We are all very luck to have so much choice.

[NJMS]

Double post, sorry

[toomzz]

Sharpening is the most important factor because if that isn't done correctly in the 1st place then everything that follows is basically irrelevant.

The key is not to over think the process and I tend to believe that a lot of people do. :D

100% agree

[Surfingringo]

First post here, great forum. Been lurking a little while.

This topic is me all over. I love that upper 5% of wicked sharp edge retention. I've posted a little over on BF but I sold my S110V knives because they didn't hold that fine edge any differently to S30V in my use.

My main use would be regularly EDC like food & cardboard but not in high volumes. I just don't need that long lasting working edge on a folder. Fixed blades I take hunting, yes - the longer it'll cut well the better (loving my 3V GSO 4.1).

Now a scary sharp edge on a folder...... I'll take that as long as I can get it to last. Call me more of a knife fiddler, I'm always flipping away and closing just watching TV etc. And I like to feel that sharp bite in the edge.

I know most will not agree and say I'm wasting my time but I just love me a polished edge. I use a edge pro apex with Sigma power select II stones. Mostly to 6000grit but sometimes to 13000. Mostly to 15 dps but for some 18dps.They push cut wickedly after that treatment.
I'll just touch up if required and I'm short on time with a lansky turn box on the fine white rods, and a small amount on the strop. OR just with a strop if the edge is still keen.

I actually like S30V, seems to perform well on my Sage 1 and I carry that knife a lot, easy to strop. XHP seems similar on my Chaparral but it doesn't get used hard at all. My GB2 and Mantra in M4 steel are next level again. Seems to hold a fine edge really well, better than S110V in my experience so far (I did try a course edge on S110V with a little better results but not epic). M4 also seems easy to strop back to wickedness where as I didn't have much luck with a strop on S110V. I have a CTS-204p Domino. Haven't cut a heap with that but it's still hair poping sharp and so far at least on par with M4, I'm guessing it might outperform it a tad. Not sure I'll notice the difference to be honest.
Just received a ZDP-189 Dragonfly 2, great little laser so far. Seems to touch up with heaps of bite straight off the white rods and only a swipe or two on the strop.

I wish I jumped on the Hap40 wagon but I was spending $ elsewhere unfortunately. It sounds like a great steel.

Looking forward to more time to play with the great knives and steels spyderco offers. We are all very luck to have so much choice.

Welcome to the forum NJMS, great first post. I say it's great because I related to and agreed with most all of it (therefore you must be a pretty smart guy, hehe :rolleyes: :D ). Like you, my fixed blades get the hard use like fish cleaning and those are the ones where a good working edge become more important. My folders see use but not that high of volume. I keep them in the upper range of sharpness because I can and I enjoy it. The only difference in you and I is I prefer seeing just how sharp I can keep them with a 600 or 1200 grit diamond finish. I love an edge with some tooth that will still firmly grab the hair of my beard or head on contact. Anyway, If I'm going to do a daily touchup to keep them at that level, I would much rather have a steel that is easy to get to that level. Like Ankerson said, I don't think there is a whole lot of difference between most quality steels in how long they will hold that higher level of sharpness. There is a small difference in how sharp they will get and a larger difference in how easily they will get there. Because there is so little difference in that upper range edge retention, I lean towards steels that are a bit easier to take to that level for my edc knives.

--Disclaimor: I know that s90v and s110v are popular steels around here and it is easy to see why. My experience is based on a sharpening regimen that most people aren't really interested in to keep my knives at a level of sharpness that most people probably don't really care about. For a practical guy who uses the **** out of his folder and wants to sharpen it once or twice a month (which is probably a large percentage of folks), steels like s110v and s90v will likely seem like the cat's meow.

[ZrowsN1s]

First post here, great forum. Been lurking a little while.

This topic is me all over. I love that upper 5% of wicked sharp edge retention.

I wish I jumped on the Hap40 wagon but I was spending $ elsewhere unfortunately. It sounds like a great steel. .

if your willing to pay full retail sooner state knives, bento box shop, and blazing blades still has some hap40. its pricey though.